Sound quality differences in streamers


Can there be sonic differences between moderate and high priced streamers when used for streaming only. I will not use or engage an onboard DAC or any other feature, just stream from Tidal or Amazon to DAC. If the unit is just transferring zeros and ones to a DAC can there be differences in say a $300 WiiM and a $3000 dSC streamer? Thanks

kckrs

the objective is just accuracy.  There are no “musical” streamers.

@mdalton 

Allow me to play devil’s advocate 🙂

Lots of people claim to hear sound quality differences between streamers:

Some are straight-up legit - either they upgraded a budget, value-engineered streamer to a decently built one, or they exchanged a noisy switching power supply for a nice linear regulated one.

Then you have the received-dogma / "fashion victim" / confirmation-bias crowd, but we are not going to talk about them because this is a nice thread and a nice forum.

Finally, there are bona fide audiophiles who have good ears, good credentials, a solid knowledge of digital audio and an open mind, who are able to quite articulately describe sonic differences between expensive, high-end streamers.

I trust these folks. What gives?

@devinplombier 

Yep, I get it.  My streamer journey started with my first post-retirement project, which is when I built a raspberry pi.  My “bias” was that I was gonna hear a huge difference between it and my better streamers - everyone (almost) on Audiogon told me I would.  But I didn’t.  I was shocked at that outcome, so I assumed it must be my ears or my system, right?   The truth was way more complicated.  I have heard differences between streamers on certain systems, and the quality of my hearing has been pretty frequently complimented by industry professionals.  So wtf?  

There’s not one simple explanation, but it’s stitched together among several of my wordy (sorry everyone) posts on this thread.  Most importantly, if you fail to ground your listening experience in some minimal amount of technical understanding of what the moving parts are, then you are highly likely to misdiagnose the cause of what you hear.  This is a “first principle”.   So we have to understand the technology in order to accurately assess which part of the chain might account for any difference we might hear.  How can we trust someone’s diagnosis when they misunderstand which component does what?  By way of example, you do not want me assessing that sound coming from your Porsche’s engine.  Trust me!
 

Additionally, aural memory really sucks.  So you have to do some form of an A/B comparison.  (I’m not saying double blinds are necessary, btw.). And good A/B comparisons involve hard work.  I for one hate doing them, because for me it squeezes all the joy out of the hobby.   So I only do them for very specific objectives (e.g., comparing DACs, testing streamers, final choices on speakers, etc.).  But if someone makes assertions about differences in sound without a pretty serious attempt at a relatively rigorous A/B approach, their views are immediately severely discounted by me.  

In one of my earlier posts here, I gave a list of examples of threads where people were initially sure that their new streamer had made a huge difference, but when the actual specifics were unpacked the truth was obviously very different from what they claimed.  That’s about 6 examples in a total of about 10ish threads on the topic I’ve bothered to involve myself in.  And on most of the others, the OP was so dedicated to his “truth” that I just didn’t want to be attacked by the streamer jackals for questioning the dude’s experience.  Not worth it.  

In my pre-retirement career, I was very successful precisely because I brought a very high level of analytical objectivity to sometimes deeply divisive topics.  My mantra was always “do the work”, and it still is.  I don’t take shortcuts, and I try very hard not embed hidden assumptions in my views.  And that’s the approach I’ve taken as it relates to the topic of streamers.  

Long answer (again), to a simple question.  Sorry.

@devinplombier 

Nothing to worry about or disappoint, I didn’t have much of a hope either way : )

@kckrs  After all that talk of streamers, equipment, cables and room acoustics is said and done, it all boils down to the one instrument that everything else is gauged by, your own ears. It has and will always be about the music, but being an audiophile is above all else about the journey of listening. Most questions on hifi forums like audiogon are asked by those who haven’t understood how vital it is to learn critical listening skills - the only means to build a truly high performing sound system. Even if you may not have the means to demo every bit of desired equipment in the specific listening space of your system, you will be able to demo what you can afford. This, together with developing your skills to critically listen trumps almost anything you might want to ask on this forum. 
I wish you an enlightened journey! ; )

In friendship - kevin

@mitch2 If I understand your setup correctly I don't see how any conventional routers will avoid having wifi 'contaminate' your 'clean' side network. Having the three systems interconnected to the one server is your issue. Depending on the quality of the other systems you could segregate the main system from the others by inserting another separate server for the other two systems. I don't know if Switch X will solve your issue if continuing to serve three systems from one server. A 'clean' side network cannot have any wifi interference at any point in the chain. The Switch X goes a step further and stops the constant network activity of pinging, as they mention in reviews and conversation, watch your network LED's on routers/NAS/switches, constantly flashing, sending and receiving network info/addresses, this is completely stopped with Switch X. I don't believe Switch X will solve your issue via three systems running on one server, but perhaps they would have a solution. One experiment you could try is to shut down the entire whole house and the two other audio system part of network, see if this improves sound quality.

 

Even with my present network solution, I'm thinking the Switch X would be an improvement via the blocking of network activity. I actually purchased a Mikrotik managed switch a couple years ago with the idea of diy modding the switch exactly how Dejitter did the Switch X, couldn't pull it off. As I recall price of switch was around $900 plus what it would have cost to mod it, internal parts upgrades and external lps, so $3500 for Switch X not that bad.

@sns 

Which mods exactly were you unable to perform in order to make your Mikrotek switch into a Switch X?

As an aside, the Mikrotek retails for $270, not $900.

https://multilink.us/mikrotik-crs309-1g-8s-in/

Thank you in advance.