Sound quality differences in streamers

mdalton,

Value is determined by the individual. One can argue that spending X amount for any component is dumb. I say, spend whatever you can easily afford to yield the sound you want!

@sns @mgrif104 - I read the Positive Feedback review of the Dejitter Switch X (link) and it sounds interesting enough that I will look into it further.  I like the idea of a separate network path for audio but with three audio zones at my residence, and all three having their own Roon endpoint, I need to understand how that would work.  My main system endpoint/streamer is hardwired (fiber) but of course the iPad I use to control Roon is running off of the network wi-fi.  I will try and learn more about the Switch X.

@mdalton - Consider the price issue all relative.  Paying $100-200K for a vehicle may seem dumb when $50 is more than enough to buy one that will reliably move you from points A to B.  However, some people can afford paying more and value the extra features/performance that a higher priced vehicle can provide.  Same with audio.  I recently purchased a more expensive DAC than I had owned before and found noticable improvements in sonic performance over the others I previously owned.  I do somewhat understand your point about servers since they are basically a computer and tend to be upgraded to newer models frequently, but some people want the best and the Oladra is arguably in the running (for being the best at this time).

A server for $29k.  Forgive me, but that’s just dumb.  Really dumb.  Like insanely dumb.

I'm not sure if the word 'dumb' is being used to describe the buying decision, the behavior, or the individual who made that decision. Here's how I see it: I'm frugal, and I tend to be cautious with my spending—even when I could afford something luxurious. But I've come to respect those who have the disposable income to buy truly luxurious things, even if those purchases sometimes irritate me or others, including people like you. They're not dumb. If they were, how could they have accumulated the wealth to afford things that we can't? 

So here’s why, IMHO, it’s “dumb” to pay $29k for the Antipodes:  Like other high-cost server/streamers, Antipodes talks about its superior isolation and noise reduction.  The reason for this is because there is no other credible claim they can make, because servers and streamers do not have a sound of their own.  They simply differ as to generation/removal of noise.  Do I think they are lying about their “galvanic isolation” or their “ultra stable clock”?  Nope.  But what do the data tell us about the results?  That you can buy a cheap server and separate streamer and get the same noise reduction.

Paul Miller at HiFi News is one of the only people that I’m aware of that runs consistent tests on streamers.  What he does is run jitter tests on the output from a dac connected to a streamer, and compare that to the same dac connected to a noisy computer.  He also compares the s/n ratios of the output (though they don’t publish as much of this data as the jitter data).  So here are the results for the Oladra (Oladra jitter/PC jitter, measured in psec):

Audioquest Dragonfly - 120/300  (snr - 104/94)

iFi Neo iDSD - 10/550 (snr - 110/110)

Mytek Brooklyn - 8/10(snr - n/a)

So are these good results? Absolutely!  Jitter is vanishingly low, and obviously dominated by the performance of the dac.  Same goes for s/n ratio.  But how does this compare to a well-engineered but significantly less expensive streamer?  Here are the results for the Volumio Rivo, which was about £1k when it was tested:

Audioquest Dragonfly - 135/300  (snr - 104/94)

iFi - 18/550 (snr - n/a)

Mytek - 8/10 (snr - n/a)

These results are virtually identical, and state of the art.  Miller even tested the Volumio with the dcs Vivaldi Apex, and it added no noise. Are there some other potential sources of noise not captured by these measures?  Maybe RFi/EMI, but there are very reasonably priced options available to handle that if that’s an issue in your system (e.g., going optical with one of the Sonore products).  

So that’s why I have this history of arguing against expensive server/streamer combos.  I mean if you want to own a luxury product for bragging rights, that’s cool I guess.  But where I object is when people get convinced by dealers and others that they have to own that luxury product to get optimal performance.  

Interesting. I have never purchased a single piece of audio gear after having looked at the specs (other than making sure a power amp has enough for the task). And, I’ve never rejected a piece of gear based on specs. I listen. And I purchase if it makes a noticeable difference and I reject if it does not. I’ve rejected far more than I’ve purchased including some rather expensive digital accessories and cables, etc. 

Reading through your post, it appears you’ve actually never listened to any of this gear. There is certainly plenty of eye candy in our hobby and I’m sure there is plenty of gear that does not perform to its promise or price. Indeed, I’ve heard some of it. But not only are you dismissive of those consumers who are looking to improve their digital chain, you are accusing every manufacturer who markets such gear as predatory, even though most of them have invested years and millions in capital pursuing better performance. Perhaps they understand something you do not. Perhaps they aren’t just following the money. Perhaps they remain curious as to “what if” and “why”. I, like many others, am grateful that there are those crazy innovators who explore, tinker and learn new things to improve understanding which then fosters new approaches. And I, like many others, are enjoying the fruits of those labors.

Keep reading your spec sheets. I’ll listen first, then read up and try to understand what I heard (or didn’t.).