I will say it again, the Marantz requires a computer to run it which presumably will be Jriver or something else. I currently have a tricked out fanless PC with RME soundcard and all the goodies, but honestly dealing with a PC just plain sucks. It is windows based, constantly is updating the OS and is hampered by all the regular windows problems. So when I see the Marantz, all I see is a DAC.
The Sony is a lot more than just a DAC. It seems like the ultimate, meaning storage and playback in one device and it happens to include a supposed great DAC. It would be nice to have a digital output, but I think that is what Sony is really trying to sell, a great DAC with playback and storage.
I cant wait for either the mods to start coming or a reference version direct from Sony. |
It is not a DAC or a renderer. |
I have seen pics of the inside of the Sony and it is going to be easy to do some serious mods on the player. Most importantly, I can remove all the output stages (op amp based) and replace them with my discrete fet I-V stages. Other mods can be done to the power supplies and clocking. The output stages are ready to install now. I would say around $500 for balanced output stages and a few other simple mods. Cannot wait to mod one. Should be killer modded. |
After a quick look at the documentation on the HAP-Z1ES support page, the key takeaway for me (and it's not a positive!) is the realization of the extent to which Sony's implementation of an everything-in-one-box solution severely limits the software capabilities that are available to organize and manage one's music collection. As a Windows PC user, I currently use the JRiver software for managing my digital music collection. JRiver is a very robust software application. Were I to move to an HAP-Z1ES, software like JRiver appears to be totally out the window in favor of Sony's much more clunky Music Transfer and HDD Audio Remote software apps. Or am I missing something here? |
Mitch, My thoughts exactly, except that Dan doesn't just start slapping parts in and hope it comes out ok. I looked recently and didn't see anything on his website. Its my hope he will take on the task of evaluating the Hap-z1es, and offer an upgrade package. I would expect that is going to take several months. Such an offering might have a very large market. I'm going to continue to sit on my ModWright Sony 5400 ES until it is clear if he is going to offer something on the HAP-Z1ES. |
FYI ... Since Sony presumably began shipping the HAP-Z1ES yesterday, I just checked their site to see if they've posted any support documentation. Much to my surprise, they have. Here's a link for anyone interested: HAP-Z1ES Support Page |
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Would someone please buy the Sony unit and send it to Modwright for all of the fully pimped-out mods? I'd like to see this thing on steroids.
and reviewed.
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I am currently using a C.A.P.S. v3 Zuma and jRiver with an exaSound e28 DAC. Most of the music is located on a remote networked drive. The system handles all formats including DSD as well as all in multichannel and does it well. OTOH, as they say on the toy and furniture boxes, "some assembly is required." |
Another option to what has been listed so far in this thread is a CAPS server. This is a Windows machine running on a silent fan-less chassis. You need a DAC to connect via USB or Firewire to the CAPS. I am now leaning more toward a CAPS server since it would have the most flexibility. All the other units listed are essentially trying to mimic a computer.
I was recently introduced to the CAPS and it got me thinking that with a Logitech wireless keyboard + mouse or Remote Desktop via my Nokia 2520 Windows tablet I would be able to do way more with that than the other units listed so far.
The following would be more expensive but would likely serve me better:
1) Computer Audiophile Pocket Server C.A.P.S. v3 Zuma
2) NAD M51 DAC includes 2 HDMI inputs + 1 HDML video pass
3) JRiver Media Player
At one time I was thinking that an Xbox One could serve the purpose of the CAPS server but with voice based control. Unfortunately I could not find an Xbox One SDK to write an app to do what I want to do. So the CAPS will be the say to go. |
Yes, the $2000 HAP-Z1ES model (presumably started shipping today) has 1TB storage on board. The lower priced $1000 model (no indication of when it will ship) has 500GB on board. |
I believe that the Sony has a 1TB storage on board, is this correct? |
Has anyone confirmed whether there is a digital volume control on board the Sony? |
+Kr4
Another distinction about the Sony that I find notable is its support for gapless playback. I am not positive, but I don't think the Marantz or the Bryston have that feature. |
There are a number of other distinctions but, imho, a notable one is that the Sony has on-board storage and depends on a network only for downloads and Internet radio. It is also significantly less expensive than the other two. |
Thanks Jon, Helpful summary. |
12-09-13: Mitch4t asked: Does it do Pandora and Rhapsody?
Nope. vTuner only. |
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Hi all,
To summarise these 3 products :-
1. The Sony HAP-Z1ES has a built-in dsd DAC but no digital output to an external DAC.
2. The Marantz NA11s1 has a dsd dac with digital outputs
3. The Bryston BDP-2 has no dac and does not do dsd
So, for the price, the Marantz seems to be a good value with its own dsd dac.
If you need dsd, the Bryston is out. If you already have a very good pcm only dac, the Marantz lets you have dsd and also allows you to output hi-rez pcm to your hi-rez dac.
So, the Sony is good if you need both a hi-rez pcm and dsd dac.
For me, i am looking for a dsd capable media player to connect via usb from my pc to coax into my hi-rez pcm only dac and use the analogue outputs of the player for dsd duty. The Marantz seems to fit the bill for me.
Hope this helps.
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Pumper, it seems to me that one would still need a computer in order to transfer one's digital audio files onto the Sony's harddrive. What leads you to believe otherwise?
As for the lower priced HAP-S1/B, it may well turn out to be the better value bang for the buck; however, it is not true to say that both machines have the same functionality because there is at least one presumably significant functional difference (apart from differences in hardware parts): only the higher priced unit has the DSD remastering engine. Hopefully, reviews will help answer the question of whether the higher priced unit is work the extra grand. |
I too am waiting for a comprehensive review of the Sony. It may be exactly what I'm looking for- an easy to use unit with no need for a computer. What's the deal with the HAP-S1, that has the same functionality but adds an amp and costs half as much? |
I am under the impression that with the Marantz you can access the FLAC files on a network or attach a USD storage drive to the USB 2.0 connection on the back. I am assuming it is similar to the Bryston BDP-2 (but with a built-in DAC). The Bryston system with a good DAC (like the Benchmark DAC2 or Bryston DAC) will be more $$ than the Marantz itself.
Another option is to investigate the XBOX One connected to a good DAC. Someone will likely write an app to do serve music from it (maybe JRiver writes an Xbox app). The Xbox is a computer after all. |
Acurus, when it comes to the Marantz, I don't think you've missed a thing. Considering its price, the capabilities it offers and those that it doesn't offer, the NA-11s1 is not a competitive product in this market. Unless the $3500 price tag can be justified purely on the basis of the quality of its DAC, the NA-11s1 is a ripoff. |
I am not really understanding the Marantz. It requires storage and a playback device, basically it is just a DAC with some internet radio. Am I missing something? You still need a computer to run the damned thing as it has no GUI.
With the Sony it can be an all in one solution. It doesnt have multiple inputs, but I dont think that is the point. Although i agree it would be nice to have some. I could basically xfer all my FLAC files to this thing and throw out the computer and the hassles that go with it. It all comes down to how good is the DAC in it? Is it world class or is it just another nice DAC in the $2k range? |
Sony HAP-Z1ES or the Marantz NA-11S1
I am interested also in comparisons between the 2. I already have a computer based system using Benchmark DAC2 and KEF LS50 and this will last a long long time.
Now I need a second DAC/Server system for the living room so that is where the interest in the Sony and the Marantz comes in. I do not want to have a computer beside the main rig.
The negatives for each product for me are:
The Marantz requires storage medium while the Sony lacks a digital input.
I hope to see some reviews and comparisons between these types of units soon. |
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This might be the unit I was waiting for. PC audio is great and all, but fooling with computers sucks big time. I would be interested in a no holds barred version of this unit. |
Thanks, I am going to assume it is a digital volume control and can be connected directly to an amp. |
Sorry Petland, I didn't answer your question. I can't confirm that both outputs are variable, but two reviews I read stated that the outputs were for connecting to an amp and the remote has volume up and down buttons. Those clues make me think that both outputs are variable but I haven't seen that question addressed directly. |
The Sony does have both single ended and balanced analog outputs. There is a "light" article about the new Sony components in the December TAS and information about them on Sony"s website. |
High rez audio and Dsd is getting more popular. Even on portable devices which is nice |
could someone confirm for me that the Sony unit actually has variable outputs (both balanced and SE). Most Sony digital sources have in the past. I realize the handheld has volume up/down but no where on the specs does it actually claim fixed vs variable. I am assuming it has variable output but would like to be sure.
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Before RMAF '13 I would have scoffed at a sony product. Their speakers were one if the best at the show. I also heard this streamer in a couple rooms and it sounded and functioned great. I will be buying one. |
Upsampling all PCM to double speed DSD is what Meitner and Playback Design do. With mods this might be killer. I am thinking I might work up serious mods on this baby. |
I only have 1 Sony device, a modified Sony SCD-1. It is the best sounding CD player I have ever heard. Especially after the mods I had done. I have heard a few 20k players from various brands.
So I am quite high on the Sony audio brand. |
I will never buy anything like that from Sony...... Knowing Sony it will probably only allow you to buy music from sonymusic.com...... Bastards!!!! |
