So many great golden era DD tables out there, what do you recommend for $1000?
Pretty much as the title says. Have been looking for a while for a decent DD table to add to my lot. Have bought a few lower end ones and ultimately been dissapointed. Now I know there were/ are literally hundreds of choices from the Japanese Golden era of DD tables. Looking for suggestions from actual owners of solid DD tables up to about $1000 . I have read and read but nothing substitutes for real experience. This would likely not be my primary table, my Garrard 401 has that position for now.
lewm"Only gravity and the resulting friction between the chassis and the shelf is keeping a DD from spinning in both directions at once, around the spindle as an axis of rotation"
Actually a platter can not spin in two directions at once as simple common sense will tell you no need to quote, reference, or apply Newton to arrive at that simple conclusion.
bimasta, The idea of using no plinth with a DD was the subject of a lengthy and some times contentious thread, me being one of those on the "nay" side of that argument. The reason is this: Newton pointed out that "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction" (Newton's 3rd Law of Motion). This means that any torque delivered to the platter has an equal and opposite rotational effect on the chassis; it "wants" to spin in the opposite direction. Only gravity and the resulting friction between the chassis and the shelf is keeping a DD from spinning in both directions at once, around the spindle as an axis of rotation. Ergo, it makes sense to add mass to the chassis in the form of a heavy and dense plinth. Even leaving out the effect on damping of resonances, adding the mass increases the friction force between the chassis and shelf and assures that the work being done by the motor is diverted only to the motion of the platter.
The arm does indeed look like the 7045. However ZERO playtime yet as still waiting for the stepdown transformer to arrive and I am NOT taking any chances. Has given me chance to clean it inside, although it was very clean looking internal already , but Deoxit never hurts! Set it up with a NOS Glanz cartirdge so will be ready to hit the ground running when the stepdown shows up. Hopefully this week although I am out of town for work all week anyway.
@uber - I am not trying to derail your OP (i apologize if out of line).
For anyone needing a stepdown, I highly recommend "Acupwr" brand. I have no vested interest; I own equipment made in Japan and have had great success with the (acupwr) transformers.
Yes 110 -130 v input 100v output as per picture. I chose that one as well as it has two outlets. You know just in case I feel down the down I need 6 TT instead of 5......
Uber, I looked at your URL on eBay. That product may be a step-UP transformer, converts 110V to 130V. Nowhere does it clearly say exactly what it does, however. Anyway, you want 100V out, not 110V, which is the low value quoted in the eBay ad. If it is a step-UP, you may be able to run it backwards, plug the "130V" input into your wall which is ca 120V and then maybe you'd get ~100V out. The ratio 130/110 would be operative. This one is the one I use, maybe under a different brand name but essentially exactly what I have:https://www.ebay.com/itm/PowerBright-Step-Up-Down-Japan-Transformer-Power-On-Off-Switch-Can-be-Used-...
Uber, If your new QLA7 is built for 100V, then a step-down transformer is a MUST. Do not run your turntable on US 120V. I would not even plug it in until you have a stepdown. If you mismatch the voltages, the question is not "whether" but "when" you will have a failure. Sooner or later, you will. Second point, you say that you own or have ordered a "120W" (Watts) step down. This sounds suspiciously like it should read 120V (Volts). If it’s indeed 120 Watts output, then you are way in excess of what you will ever need. No problem. What you want is a transformer that takes 120Volts input and puts out 100Volts. And it is wise to have an excess of current capability over what the turntable draws. A plaque or label on the turntable chassis usually tells you the power consumption (in Watts). Typically the Japanese DDs draw less than 20W. I use a separate 50W stepdown for each of my (two) 100V Japanese turntables that require it. I bought them off eBay.
I am very pleased with my Sony PS-X60 (265 usd) from 1979 as far as I remember. I bought it two years ago and it works and plays wonderful after a simpel repair of the speed adjustment. It replaced a JVC QL-A7, which was nice too, but not as musical. https://www.vinylengine.com/library/sony/ps-x60.shtml
A lot of the finer points written on this and other audiophile forums sail right past my limited understanding, but I would say that you might look for something solid and semi-manual from the 1970s and then put some money into a good (and compatible) cartridge, which is where the sound is really made. My Dual 704 with Shure V-15 III really sounds as good as I can possibly want; as does Sony 2251 w/Grace G840 tonearm and Stanton 681EEE. i also have Technics SL1401--built like the proverbial brick outhouse--which may be optimal with a medium-compliance cart (though it sounds good with my V-15 II). All tables above are trouble-free and dead-quiet. If the plastic base of the Dual gets you down you can spend more for a 701, mentioned by someone above. (The 704 has a better counterweight and VTA, if that matters.) The older mid-to-upper-end Yamahas, Kenwoods, HK/Micro-Seikis, Denons--all should do the job without breaking the bank.
It's not Japanese but I would highly recommend that you look into the Dual 701. If you can find one in original condition or restored it would be worth a look. Prices have been rising over the last few years but still under your $1000 limit. German engineering and one of the best I've heard.
However a question. It is Japanese market 100v. What is general thoughts on this? Use a good step down or? My home power is about 121v so a good 20% over voltage.
I'm also curious to know the answer to this. Do Japanese Market 100v spec'd TTs run on US power? Or do they require a step down transformer?
So just sitting on the rug on my floor, with its original rubber platter mat and supplied AT mm cart I gave it a MoFi record of I, Robot by Alan Parsons.
Freaking spectacular!
Can't wait to see what it can do on a proper stand and a decent platter mat and a vintage MM cart.
But it's off to Dallas unfortunately for work for the rest of the week so no more until Saturday. .😞😞😞😞
However a question. It is Japanese market 100v. What is general thoughts on this? Use a good step down or? My home power is about 121v so a good 20% over voltage.
Anything DD goes as far as I am concerned Greg. Be interesting to hear your thoughts on it.
My second system TT is a Sony PS-LX22. Which is about as cheap and cheerful a DD TT as you can get on paper. But with its original Sony MM cart running through my vintage Sanyo receiver it sounds pretty darn good. MUCH better than a Kenwood KD2100 belt drive TT that was just flat in comparison with supposedly superior vintage AT mm carts tried on it. Grand total cost of $38 shipped from fleabay.... Lol.
Does the Technics SL-1200 MKII count in this discussion? I've been wanting to try one and found one that doesn't look like it's done DJ duty and has some KAB upgrades at a reasonable price. I should have it next week.
But as I have said it is all good as I LOVE hearing about vintage DD TT because I am sure this will not be my last foray. So the more information and knowledge the better as far as i am concerned.
The GT1000 is or was the "little brother" of the GT2000. The GT750 is the new baby in the family, with no teeth. Every opinion I have ever read is to the effect that the GT2000 stood alone in the Yamaha line-up. Even the GT1000 and certainly the GT750 were made to a much lower price point; they may look similar, but there are big differences from the GT2000. I have also seen all these variants, side by side in one case, during my several visits to Tokyo. In the flesh, the differences in quality of construction are obvious. I admit, however, that I have not heard the lesser models. Last spring I passed up a really mint, like new, GT2000L, which was for sale at ~$1800. I was sorely tempted, but sanity eventually ruled, since I have 5 TT's as it is. Anyway, it was a beautiful piece just to look at. Not a scratch on it. Probably would have cost $500 to $600 to ship to me on the East coast USA.
Removable headshell is a "feature" of a tonearm, not necessarily of a turntable. With some ingenuity, one can usually replace the factory supplied tonearms on these units. Back in those days, every tonearm on the market had a removable headshell. It was not until the advent of the Triplanar and probably a few others I can't think of that we had the choice of a fixed headshell, and as you know, some think that's a major improvement (in rigidity), not a negative.
I love DD turntables and have owned most of the great/legendary Japanese DD tables of the 70's and 80's. At $1000.00, you've got a healthy budget IF you know what to look for. Unfortunately, most of the tables that have been recommended to you are selling for far more than your budget. But, there are some excellent tables that you can acquire at your budget that people don't really know about or dismiss. Here's a small list you should keep your eyes open for:
Kenwood KD-990: This is a fantastic table that can compete with most of the best Denon's, Pioneer's and JVC/Victors that others have mentioned. This is a totally integrated deck that features a unique and effective plinth design that you don't see until you start spending serious bucks. Google it, and you'll see what I mean. Dudes in Japan know all about this table and have installed additional arms of great value and collectibility to the other posts of the table. These guys are on to something with this table, because no one puts a $3000.00 Audiocraft or Fidelity Research arm on a table that isn't up to snuff.
Kenwood KD-750: This table is a bit more well-known here in the states. It looks a lot like the KD-990 I mentioned above, and ships with a good tonearm that was designed by Kenwood and built for them by Jelco. Unlike the KD-990, the 750's arm can be easily removed and replaced with a better arm, which I did when I installed the Audio Technica AT-1010. That arm took an already excellent table to a whole other level and it will easily best the new Technics SL-1200G, which is a $4000.00 table. While the Technics spins with measurably (if not audibly) greater accuracy, an the Technics arm is pretty good in spite of what the haters say, the AT-1010 is simply superior and competes with arms like the FR-64 and the Audiocraft AC-3000.
Sony PS-8750: This table is the 3rd best table Sony ever made, and that's saying something. Fantastic motor, dead silent, smooth and ships with the Sony PUA-1600 tonearm, which uses a combination of aluminum and carbon fiber. Even the head shell is a fully realized design, also being "carbon-clad". The arm also uses a sapphire bearing, and with the right medium compliance cartridge can sound amazingly good. 9" and 12' versions of the PUA-1600 are often found selling by themselves for $600.00 or more dollars, and our friends in Asia often times place this arm on other tables from other manufacturers, which is high praise.
Luxman PD-441: The little brother of the renown PD-444 (which I own and won't sell), this table is a bit of a reach at $1000.00, but you could get lucky and find one at or around that price, and probably with a damned good arm on it. These tables usually shipped without arms, so the end user had to source one themselves, and that typically meant that a damned good tonearm would be used.
Yamaha GT-750: The little brother of the GT-2000 (which I also owned), there still is a lot of the same DNA between the tables, including an excellent and ridiculously underrated 12" transcription tonearm. You have to look on Japanese sites like HiFiDo, but they've usually got them and in good shape.
Some of the things that all of these decks I described have in common are the following: relaxed yet dynamic presentation, excellent pitch, low noise floor and REMOVABLE HEAD SHELLS! Others like to have hysterical arguments about head shells. I prefer to leave the dogmatic to their dogma and listen for myself. Believe me, there are awesome head shells out there that can seriously maximize the performance of any of these tables/arms, and you can quickly and easily swap multiple carts as compared to a uni-body tonearm.
I was going to suggest a Goldmund Studietto (with the JVC motor only!) however I think it might be almost double your budget. Also they are hard to find in pristine shape. I own two of them and I'm going to list one soon (a showroom demo I never used. Nothing beats them, once you remove the 3-spring suspension and replace them with sorbothane pucks ;~) They have a slightly concave platter, so a Goldmund Reflex Clamp is a 'must have'; and Goldmund Cones take the whole thing up another notch. Those two accessories will cost $350 - to $450 if purchased separately
Cliff, The subject of the thread is vintage Japanese DD turntables, in case it is not obvious. So the Well Tempered Classic doesn't qualify. You ought to try out one of the turntables we are talking about. You'll like it.
Came across this Post by another Contributor in the past:-
Don't get me wrong, I totally do not underestimate the importance of the speed control architecture. Motors of this type will not be speed stable under load without it. This was a second revolution (no pun intended) in the late 70s, early 80s. The big Japanese companies came up with far better control systems on their later decks (to go with the better motors) that all but eliminated the over/undershoot issues that have been attributed to DD control systems. JVC famously (and probably most successfully) came up with a double bi-directional servo that was also used in the Yamaha GT-2000 series TTs (Yamaha also used one of JVCs 4 pole coreless motors AND a 6kg platter for even smoother operation). Kenwood for the L07-D (and probably later coreless motored DDs like the KP-990 and KP-9010) had a very sophisticated double nested PLL design that was relatively "soft" and also had a 5 or 6Kg platter for inertia.
Seems the DQX-1000 uses a JVC motor...prior to their big switch to coreless. Try to hear a TT with a coreless JVC motor and bi-directional servo if you can...
You are wrong, the "boom" in coreless was in the late 70s and early 80s when digital controllers as such didn't even exist!! It was not cheap to implement a good controller at that time (at least the first time it was developed...it gets subsequently cheaper the more you use it...although the one in the TT101 was never simple or cheap). There is a rediscovery of that technology going on in the last few years but there was about a 30 year drought in its use in new TTs.
Greg, which MNPCTECH feet did you get for your QL-Y66F? I had a look on their website and they didn't list JVC/Victor. I think the feet on my QL-Y5 screw in with machine bolts so maybe the ones for the Pioneer would work for me.https://mnpctech.com/#/product/1004 Are you able to adjust the leveling of the table with these feet?
Raul. Yes it is true I have bought the QLA7. However I am still always interested and intrigued by the plethora of great vintage DD TT still out there. All great knowledge for the future. The Japan only market is certainly fascinating and I did peruse HiFiDo in English as well. A dangerous site I fear..... Lol.
@lewm, I agree with you that the PL-70L II is a great bargain in vintage DD territory. I purchased one for around $1000 at HiFiDo several years back, but it's hardly ever on sale and prices have gone up since. For some reason the Exclusive P3 is offered more frequenly, but at a much higher price of course. That table is in a different league, as well it should be.
The tonearms on both tables are very similar, but not identical. Both are 12" length and have interchangeable straight and S-type arm pipes. They were also available as separate items. The P3 arm is called EA-10 and is dynamically balanced. The PL-70L II arm is called EA-70 II and is statically balanced and is then fitted with a manual armlift (the version in the PL-70L II has a motorised lift and automatic shut off). Topclass audio in Hongkong has both arms on offer at the moment for $3800 and $2000 respectively. For a moment I even considered buying the latter and mounting it on my Micro RX-1500, it's that good.
@uberwaltz, You might also consider the PL-50 L II, which is one step down from the 70 and equipped with a 10" version of the otherwise identical arm. That should also be a great choice and most likely still within your budget.
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