Insane prices this time around…

Plus a new tt and a new tonearm. MF notes about aggressive pricing.

 

This is good news because of the loss of Jelco (Japanese supplier of arms to other brands).  It was becoming harder to find decent arms that are reasonably priced.

I would take one of Jeff's Audiomods series six arms at less than half the cheapest SME arm listed above, all day ... any day. Especially an arm that can play right along side the SME series IV and V arms . I personally can't  justify the pricing when more than viable options are available . Just my 4 cents worth with inflation....

 

@photomax and @has2be 

totally agree - ridiculously over-priced.

SME was taken over by the man behind Padood - an Indian multi-billionaire. I think they don't have the same steady approach - ie bought Garrard. The Model 60 and now the bizarre decision to stop selling arms - and then come back with the 'classics' over-priced. I do not get this strategy which seems scattergun and not by someone who truly appreciates audio. BTW I am Asian myself so this is not a pop at someone from my part of the world - just a simple observation

 

@lohanimal , I fully agree. SME's behavior makes no sense to my primitive mind. 

@has2be, I would take one of Jeff's Audiomods series six arms at less than half the cheapest SME arm listed above, all day ... any day. Especially an arm that can play right along side the SME series IV and V arms .

I own a SME Series IV and was fortunate to be able to select it as a Tonearm following a demonstration of it at a HiFi Event, where it was able to be compared to the Series V. At this time with my experience in listening and on the system used to carry out the demonstrations, using two identical TT's, I was not able to determine where the V was presenting as an improved model over the IV.

Today I also own a AudioMods Series Five Micrometer, and can not make any claims where the SME IV is a noticeably improved Tonearm.

There was a period where the Tonearms seemed to be so similar, I was considering having the IV overhauled and have more up to date parts added to it, to see if improvements were able to be created.

Neither of these Tonearms are used by myself today as the daily used Tonearms.

The most recent developments is that a friend who is building their own design of Tonearm, has also got a few hooks, using modern materials, they would like to use on a Rega Arm they own, and I am to loan the SME IV to be used as a comparison the trials.

We have already discussed that the Rega as Standard and being compared to the IV will most likely share many similarities, as the V and the IV are only present today because the Rega Designs and the Support they received in the early days of the Brands Launch, seriously impacted on the SME 3009/3012 Sales.

SME have not appeared for many years to have adopted a updated technology for their Tonearms, where as Rega Designs has evolved into a Variety of other Brands Products, where new technologies are in use, to gain the improvements that are seen as attractive. 

A Rega TT and Tonearm was less to purchase than a SME Tonearm, in the UK at this time, I think a quite accurate guestimate is that nearly every individual between the age of 14 - 20 with a interest in Vinyl LP's owned Rega equipment.  

As in all things I comment on today, using ones ears as the Judge is the only method I know that works to determine how attractive a device is to a person, and whether one Model vs another, can offer a noticeable difference, being perceived as for the better.

Nope. Not ever.

SME was taken over by the man behind Padood - an Indian multi-billionaire

@noromance 

Its a guy called Ajay Babauro shirke. I spoke to a someone who was a former UK importer who knows him. He also has a hand in Spendor. 

he change might be required, as tying individuals into the Brands TT's > Tonearms as the means to purchase, is possibly not producing interest or sales to the same degree as offering items as individual pieces.

Relying on a Pre-Internet reputation where the media was used to secure a Market Comfort Zone, does not wash today, the general enthusiasts for using a Vinyl LP Source are much more tuned in to their overall options and where Value For Money is to be found.

They have managed to keep old namesakes, that are known for being instrumental, for the producing of the Brands most successful models offered by the Company, away from the the Labels used to name the most recent announced models on offer.

Maybe nostalgia as a weapon is blunting, and is not part of the attack plan for improving the Companies position in today's markets.

   

Yup agree SME is now overpriced but hey this is hi-end audio and many brands are IMHO.

If the new 3009 and 3012 were the R version I might consider getting one because used they are extortionate.

since vinyl became fashionable circa 2007 Hifi - mid/high end has become ludicrously expensive. There is no logic to it either. In the past there was the odd outlier such as Goldmund Reference and Rockport but they were also scintillating products. Now every boutique product wants to occupy that space and few genuinely justify it

@lohanimal 

Idiot. You must be very young.  If you are I will forgive you.

Vinyl has been fashionable since about 1955.

But you are absolutely correct about today's stupid blingy $000,000 turntables.

@clearthinker 

Thanks - you must be old grandad 🤣

I am talking about market share and fashion... In the 90's the high street rid its stores of vinyl and you had to go to places like reckless records to buy vinyl.

I think in the last 10 years (can't say the year) the sale of vinyl in the UK outstripped CD. That has been driven by market tastes (fashion)

Vinyl was previously the only widespread access to music (yes reel to reel is superb - but neither easy to store nor affordable) CD changed that

One other reason for the resurgence of a Vinyl LP to be a mainstream consumer purchase option, is that New Artists across most genre have chosen it as a Hard Medium Merchandise to be used to increase their revenues.

I might need a correction, but I am aware a revenues made on a 1000 sold LP's as merchandise, is equivalent to approx' the royalties from 5 000 000 streams. 

There is a discontent with the Streamed Digital Media, as the remuneration is dire, hence, it is possibly for this reason the the CD was not the chosen Hard Medium to be offered as a merchandise/consumer product. 

I have purchased Vinyl LP's direct from a Groups Web Page, I am also awaiting a Vinyl LP being produced through a Crowd Fund, it helps out for a New Act to get on their feet a little better financially.

Imagine, having been a Purchaser of a Crowd Funded first Beatles Album, such a limited and unique purchase, would have most likely matured in value and become a very attractive Pension Pot or Inheritance. 

@pindac 

interesting points which make sense.

As to the SME price hike together with everything else god knows. 
 

SME were reassuringly expensive but now??? I have heard great things about the Audiomods from multiple sources and the various Rega offerings are excellent too. The 3009 and 3012 were always an affordable arm but at over £2k it appears to be a lazy greedy cash in - I’m sure there are always the usual commercial reasons to price hike (I am not stupid) but it’s a real shame 

 

The following is a information I posted the other day on another thread.

___________________________________________________________ 

I am just going through the process of Packing a PTP Solid Nine TT to be taken for a demonstration at a friends tomorrow, where it will be sitting along side a SP10 R, and used to demonstrate Platter Mats and Spindle Weights/Clamps for their effect on each TT.

___________________________________________________________

As a friend learned I was to be local to his home I was asked to attend their home in advance and listen to their SP10 MkII mounted in a Panzerholz Plinth and to listen to a update to a prototype tonearm that is being produced. I have been close to the development of this Tonearm from the concept stages. 

The Tonearms designer had agreed that my assessment of the performance made sense to them, as they has detected the improvements when used on the earlier used plinth material and now the Panzerholz is in use as a Plinth Material, it showed the true value of the tweaks undertaken on the Tonearm.

I have assured them, I can't see it being bettered mechanically at this stage and the attention needs to got to different Cartridge mounting materials and the signal path wiring, fortunately for the designer I have made available selections of wires that the latest wire technologies, through to PC Triple C /EX.

I headed onto the planned meeting and brought along as a additional experience, a Sub Plinth Design not used by myself to date.

This was created using Three Tiers of AT 616 Pneumatic Footers and Two Tiers of Panzerholz Sub Plinths. On this was mounted the PTP TT.

Firstly a few attendees were not familiar with the TT Set Up, which consited of the PTP Solid Nine >  NSC Speed Controller > AudioMods Series Five Micrometer (with continuous Silver Arm Wiring) > Hana SL. Other attendees have encountered this on a few occasions, for various demonstrations being PTP vs another TT, PTP vs CD or PTP used for exchanging ancillaries. It is fair to day some have got an attuned ear for this TT being used.

My own experience with the AudioMods Series Five and SME IV has been that these as Tonearms deliver a sound, that can be said to be taut with an impactful presentation. Notes and Vocals are one dimensional, without a noticeable envelope shaping them. The geometry or engineering that allows for this additional quality to manifest during a replay, in my view is not present in these designs.

My experience has shown, when a Tonearm is experienced that can present a envelope and shaping to a note and vocal, it is quite difficult to accept performance from a Tonearm that delivers with a one dimensional note, no matter how well projected and present it is.   

After the first few tracks it was apparent that the PTP on the new mounting assembly of materials was offering a delivery that was new to those who have a familiarity, and those who did not know the TT, were quite vociferous about how shockingly good the TT was. All attendees were giving a appraisal beyond the usual, as the Balance across the frequencies was much more accurate and the usual Bass presence was much better blended into the overall of the frequency range. The strong Bass presence is the trait that will usually be detected on a Idler Drive.

Another interesting outcome was that the use of the mats was quite interesting and the choices for preferences were more varied that a previous experience on a Belt Drive TT. 

Rubber Mats and Rubber Composite Mats were not in favour unanimously.

 Leather was well liked in Two Thicknesses, with the Zavfino Leather Mat being one the preferred options.

Between the Foams in different Thicknesses and the Metal and Ceramic Mats the Jury was out and the stance of one in their preference to another's not so impressed was a real eye opener.

It did suggest that the TT was able to present the variation of the sonic traits on offer from the differing materials used at an interface, and these were seen between a group with differing levels of attraction.

There were differing weights used, along with Zavfino Weight that is a composite construction, the Zavfino Weight won the group over in general.   

The meet up ended with a SP10 R > Zavfino Leather Platter Mat >Glanz 12" > being used with two Versions of Ortofon Kontrapunt B and then the Miyajima Shilabe.

The Orofon K'b Cart's are fast and vibrant and deliver with a incisive blow, they will cure lethargy with ease.

Out of all the replays produced throughout the day, the Shilabe when put into use shone, it was not being met with contenders to usurp it in any area of the performance s light well above the  water     

        

 

@lohanimal : I agree! The sky-high prices for some of these TTs, arms and cartridges is exorbitant! Tech Das Air Force 1 ($110K) and SAT arm ($30K) plus a $10K Clearaudio Goldfinger cartridge! Willie Sutton was asked why he robbed banks. "That's where the money is!" Today's High End companies are catering to the millionaires because "That's where the money is!"

The SME M2-9R at £3108 is indeed way too costly for the middle class enthusiast! I'd rather spend $1K on a good condition original 3009 - which price is again high - I bought a brand new 3009 for $175 back in 1976! 

@jasonbourne52 price adjustment wise audio has gone up in price exponentially. The SAT turntable I think is even less justifiable than the arm because it is a re-plinthed Technics - sorry if anyone disagrees - but it is.

I don’t have such a problem with the tech-das oddly - if I was spending 30k on an arm it would be the derrenville parallel tracker.

As I have said some things are expensive and justifiably so - the Rockport Sirius - Mares/Connoisseur amps. 
I think that much of the cable industry has a lot to blame IMHO.

I wonder if SME continue to service items past and present still?

I sold a mint 3012 mk 1 about 35 years ago for £80 to a Japanese, having replaced my home brewed turntable with a Linn.

Fool I was for not being able to predict the future

 

The CD will die before vinyl.  Some say this is strange or even perverse.  But it is perfectly well explicable.  As a digital medium it offers no more than downloads, streams, rips and all the rest.  But it costs about 20x more on average.  No brainer.

 

Non fungible tokens are a very new development.  I wonder if performers could sell their music for more than they are getting for downloads and streams?  They could make small changes in the performance by digital means that would make each download unique and identifiable by a reference code and logged into a bitchain.  They would sell each one as an NFT with all the rights attaching.

Crazy Eddie prices--insane! I paid $1,800 for my M2-12R when it first came out. Excellent arm but not at today's $4,100.

Glanz B series went up £500 I the space of about 4 years in the UK. So much for the benefits on the world stage Brexit brought us