Single driver speakers - opinions

If you need the sensitivity and impedance of near 16ohm. Lowthers are a good way to go. If you don't need both SEAS exotic is amazingly good. For lowther pm4a new cone sounded best to my ears.

JohnK "This modded drivers just a way for a schmuck to make a buck..."
Okay, you think I'm a smuck. But maybe you should add "IMHO" 'cause just maybe, not everyone thinks the same about me.

Johnk "Cdc just how many 8in full range designs have you've owned?"
None, as for the money, none have impressed me enough to purchase. That would be stupid to pay good money for something that does not sound good just to satisfy your "qualification" that you require, IMHO.

JohnK "And slapping a coating on a cheap driver doesn't make it better "
Very insightful. Anything more intelligent to add than that?

JohnK "More weight on cone might lower bass but would reduce treble, midrange, reduce peak SPL ,driver is now slower"
Nope, treble HF extension actually increased, not decreased. Do you know MarkMcK at DIYaudio? He has also increased HF extension by adding strategically placed dots on drivers.
So maybe you should be more careful in what you say. Especially when it's in a nasty, arrogant, I know it all manor, IMHO.

JohnK "And since its 8in can play much louder and lower"
Agreed, and if that's what you define as better, you are right.

JohnK "Many who can not afford the good stuff delude themselves into thinking what they purchased is better. Good for the ego but bad for others when this wrong info gets passed about as fact"
Is this is a personal attack directed at me because you think I am too poor to afford a more expensive system? Nice guy. Sounds like you have the ego problem.
You can say the same thing for people who spend big bucks for a speaker like an F200 driver. Like:
"Many who can afford the good stuff delude themselves into thinking what they purchased is better. Good for the ego but bad for others when this wrong info gets passed about as fact"
And people who spend big $$ are much more likely to have the big ego IMHO. How can I possibly have a big ego with my humble rig? More like a lesson in humiltiy than ego.

While you're being so technical please explain how an 8" soundstages better than a 3"?
Please show me how the Fostex 8" has a smoother FR over 3-5K than, say a Jordan JX-92. Or even this $6.00 Dayton ND16FA-6
Compared to Fostex F200 F200
Please show me how the Fostex is better in the HF than the $6.00 Dayton tweeter.

Cdc You've decided that 4in c37 are the best. Why do you need any more info, I gave you enough. And you want me to show you how something sounds? This can not be done. I suggest since you can afford it, you try out[listen to in home]to these many different designs with larger drivers and get back to me in a few years. I use these drivers, design for many full range drivers, work with manufacturers of such. I do have a bit of knowledge about performance. And I gave my opinion as did your all encompassing comment you said no 8in is close to 4in in performance and this is wrong. Other way round for me buddy. Ive tried them you have not. For 2 years I even offered a fe126e design. You can read in what you want. Seems you like to add things never said but imagined. I was just trying to help you out. But time is wasted on those with such faith. You say I am a know it all, well, know one knows it all but I seem to have a bit more experience than you. If this is arrogant to you, nothing I can do about how you feel. Oh never said you are a schmuck unless your the modifier. You take other generalizations as posts about you personally, well that's ego man;) Happy listening

Let's see if I am getting all this right.....

Stronger cabinet....check

More expensive drivers.....check

Stronger baskets.....check

good better best theories...check

Graphs, charts, software, data sheets galore...check

Years of speaker building experience....check

Expensive brand name speaker wire.....check

Expensive brand name binding posts....check

Well researched and proven design plans....check

Enabled drivers........check

Wait....no...c37 drivers.....check

No, wait.....expensive stock drivers....check

Hmmmm, maybe.....inexpensive drivers...check

Finishes........check

Opinions, biases, slight of hand......check

Checkbook......check

Reviews......check

Distribution.....check

Marketing......check

Oh, and ....lol...almost forgot the most important...Ears...CHECK

Everything I've left out......CHECK

Wow, we all have lots to think about. From the newbie trying to understand and
plot an audio path right up to the most knowledgable and respected individuals
in our hobby. For the record, John, I consider you the latter. Facts,
opinions, hyperbole, passions, confusion, and unfortunate but true, some real
snakes whose sole focus is to rip off the buying public. On this, we agree.

These attributes are common to our industry, because they are common to life. I
won't waste anybody's time discussing it in detail. Just like I've done and
still do, folks have to forge their way through all the fog. Experimenting,
stumbling, reviewing, building, buying, selling, etc, to find your audio truths
and nirvana.

First, with all due respect, don't try and tell me that your post is "not an
attack" when you say things like "This modded drivers just a way for a schmuck
to make a buck"....and "Better to buy a more costly original equipment driver than let any self proclaimed
expert muck one up so"....and "Average DIY types using coatings on cheap drivers
than pricing such up. Is almost as bad as the polished rocks and magic clocks."
That, in my humble opinion, is an attempt at political trickery, and I was
shocked to see that you put out that type of verbiage, to say the least.
Respectfully, though, I understand loud and clear that it is your personal
"audio truth".

In so many ways, I am glad that I am not a self proclaimed anything. I just
build cabinets and market them. I develop my audio truths as I go along, and
yes, they change quite frequently. Like any truth, audio truths are a moving
target, always changing and evolving. Serious convictions that I acquired in
the beginning, have all but been eliminated over time, and I'm sure that will
happen over and over again. Which, brings me to my own personal thoughts about
eNaBled drivers.

Fact: If there was one best way to go, we would only have one choice to select from. One amp. One preamp. One CDP. One DAC.
One IC. One speaker cable. One Speaker.

Reality shows us something entirely different. Our choices and selections are
HUGE! This can be both good and bad. Fact: Each person hears differently, and
sometimes, wants to hear something different from his own system than he hears
at his buddies house.

I've had this experience many times. I've come away from peoples houses with
expensive systems thanking my lucky stars that my budget system sounded the way
it did. So, to say that eNaBled is a waste of money, or that it takes a system
backwards, or is a rip off is an unfair statement in my opinion and shouldn't be
heralded as such a concrete fact in the manner in which you put it out there.

I'm certainly not going to deny the fact that with regards to eNaBled drivers,
there aren't very passionate believers and non believers, but does it change the
sound? Sure it does. Whether or not it changes it to your particular taste or not, is not for anyone of us to decide except the end user. It is not a
scam, rip off, or a joke. From what I've read and heard, Bud P, hasn't made
much money from his countless hours of testing and research, except for the few
audio enthusiasts who feel obligated to reward him for his honorable efforts.
Mostly on a donation basis and a "hand shake" personal commitment from what I
hear. Instead, he has shared on many forums(and I'm sure thousands of emails),
this info free of charge to any and all who were interested. I would hardly
call this "a schmuck to make a buck", but you are certainly entitled to your own
opinion.

Personally, I enjoy what the eNaBled process does for the sound coming from my
speakers. So much so that I now include them with all my horns as standard
issue. That's not to say that if someone wanted to save a few dollars(about
$160), I wouldn't install a stock version. It's the way I want to hear it.
Some say, eliminating cone break up kills the HF organics and makes things sound "less real". My ears don't hear that. For sure, the process does give
the impression of increased bass and seemingly better integration of the bass to
the mid bass. I just love this part of what eNaBled does for my sound. This is
what I hear, and frankly, I could care less about all the data and if the
process makes the cone slower due to added weight. Cones are made of many
different materials all the time that certainly effect their speed, weight,
performance, etc. And, as a result, they produce a certain "sound". I guess I
like a fast single driver "slowed up" a bit, but many may !
not care for it. Who cares? To each his own. If you like the sound they
produce, buy it, keep it, listen to it, and be happy. If you don't like it, why
not simply say, "it's not for me", or something to that affect. Don't attempt
to degrade someone's passionate attempt to produce and offer a product they
believe beneficial to their hobby, and then call them a scam artist, simply
because they might be profiting from it. That's just plain wrong.

Everybody is right. Everybody is wrong. And, in the end, all that matters is
if your happy with your choices. Both in audio and in life. 4" driver? 8"
driver? Are my 2 7" drivers in my sub woofer better than 4 15" subs in a bass
bin? No one could ever say for sure. It boils down again, to a matter of taste
and what you want to hear. In my simple experience, they produce different
presentations. Both are right, and both are good. They produce what the
designer intended them to do. Nothing more, nothing less.

Wilson Speakers. I have read some pretty damaging posts and script on the
Internet. Not all of it negative. Not all of it positive. Some call it the
most inaccurate loud speaker on the planet. Who cares! What matters is if it
produces the sound you want to hear. Personally, I don't care for any speaker
that has a crossover, but that is my taste, and for whatever reason, or how I
developed it, matters not to me. I am happy with what I hear coming from my system. I have heard two different Wilson models, and although they
are not my cup of tea, and certainly not affordable to me, I would not say that
they are not a formidable offering. Is Dave Wilson a scam artist? Hardly. He
certainly believes in his product and is a great marketer, and in his own mind,
justifies the cost he charges to own a pair. Ultimately, a manufactures success
in the market, is driven by just that. The Market. The buying public is who
will always have the power. Regardless of opinion, Dav!
e Wilson is in for the long haul. Are there equivalents out there for less
money? Yep. Could it be someone's opinion that there is better out there for
less money? Yep. just like amps. Just like cables. Just like speakers.

Bottom line. It is sound. And, it comes in all shapes and sizes to fit
individual tastes and applications and budgets. I would just offer that no one
should discourage someone else from experimenting with a different product,
simply because it doesn't make sense to them. You might be robbing someone of their audio happiness in
the process. Especially when it comes from a well respected industry icon like
yourself, John.

Try as anyone might, there is simply no right and wrong with some of our choices
in this hobby. Spend what you are willing or are capable of, and just enjoy
where the journey takes you. And above all....enjoy the music your way.

Close your ears to us all, and open them to your own system and music. After
all, that is the only truth worth believing.

Jeff Carder

Cdc- you wrote;

'DIY is good :-). DIY takes time to do so it slows me down from changing stuff out every few months. DIY also makes it impossible to justify a $1,000+ amp when I can make one for $200 or so. I'd be spending time on the chat sites anyhow so might as well put the time to good use and make stuff myself'.

I think Johnk has been doing this for years.
Experimenting sorts out the good from the bad.
Experience is everything. Mr K is a wealth of knowledge in this field.

>And slapping a coating on a cheap driver doesn't make it better this kind of so call modded drivers will have reduced performance if one really understands transducer or cone design.

John,

Get up on the wrong side of the bed today?

I guess one good rant deserves another?

I can't agree with you about not being able to improve a loudspeaker with careful treatment (otherwise i wouldn't be a proponent). You can also make it worse. With 30 years of experience under my belt, i don't get very many duds anymore (and those don't ever see the light of day). And as many know i freely share what i have learned.

As to the performance of a small driver vrs a larger one, one has to consider the box it is in, the room the box is in, the partnering equipment, and the compromises that the end user finds the best mix for their listening & emotionally satisfaction (not to mention budget). Since there really is no such thing as a true full range, one is going to have to compromise somewhere. Personally i find the 4-5" drivers to be the sweet spot, but a couple helper woofers -- if you can get them to blend -- can really add to the experience. And once one has crossed the line to helper woofers, then one can consider things like the FF85KeN + woofer, one of my current favorites,

If you are not willing to cross that line, and need bass, or have a really small amp, you have little recourse but to choose a larger driver.

As far as rants go someone could write a similar discourse about manufacturers taking poor performing Fostex recommended designs and selling them as their own. Or even taking the good ones and not giving credit where credit is due.

For instance we burned our build of the Fostex FE126 recommended Bass Reflex/TL hybrid (Fostex calls it a horn/BR hybrid) as its performance was not up to snuff -- not even good enuff to give away -- but i have seen these being promoted out in cyberspace (and with no acknowledgment).

dave

JohnK "Cdc You've decided that 4in c37 are the best. "

I never said this. If I said something to get you upset, I apologize. You have a wealth of knowledge and I would rather share it.

You then quote me as saying "you said no 8in is close to 4in in performance "
Again, I never said this. Rather I asked you "I would need more clarity to understand how every 4 inch is worse than any 8 inch, except for bass and dynamics, of course."
Not sure why you are taking what I wrote out of context.

JohnK "Seems you like to add things never said but imagined."
Nope, that's what you are doing. I don't know why.
I have taken direct quotes from your posts and responded. I have enjoyed your posts and advice in the past.
JohnK "You say I am a know it all,"
Once again, I never said this either. I was referring to your tone. Hardly a "helpful" tone as you say you are trying to help me.

For me, the funky soundstaging of an 8", whether Fostex or $14,000 Tannoy Westminster, and the rough HF of the Brines F200, is just as distracting as the loss of dynamics of a 4". That's why I would like to hear a good 4" T-L design. I think it would be the best of both worlds.

You do know a lot and I would much rather have you explain stuff like phase of SD speakers as I showed in Jordan's link.
Thanks

Gawdbless, I agree, I would like to benefit from his wealth of knowledge than get blasted by it.

Does seem a few manufacturers don't credit nagaoka. But KCS is not one. Think its well known I am a Nahaoka fan boy. Even my fe206esr cab was 4 generations up from nagaoka original design and again hes mentioned even in my review. All our cabinets are optimized from nagaokas and we still mention as do we fully disclose parts etc. Do other manufacturers? I could list many who no longer list origin of design parts etc. But KCS is no longer offering any BLH models except large bass horns but will custom build if asked. For now KCS is offering 1 full range driver loudspeaker a SEAS exotic equipped AS cab. And did I get up on the wrong side of the bed. No Ive got a SEAS exotic in my bedroom system I smile as soon as my eyes open. 1st thing I do is turn on tunes. I go to bed as they play;) No things are good for me I just seem surly for I am not a gifted tech writer or linguist. And I come across as short and a know it all. Seem forums are not my thing. Will stop posting. Spend more time with my boy sales for KCS are good. No worries except autism and politics.

And Cdc if you want a great plan for a TL fe126e. Email. Will send it out, build is not so hard. Sorry if things are taken wrong. As I said not a gifted writer. If I seem short or rude its just the way I post, in real life I am tall and rude;)

Hi JohnK

Not that my opinion counts for anything, and how I feel matters not in the whole scheme of things, but for what it's worth, nice job and good call on your last two posts. I was delighted when I saw your responses. The choice to continue posting is certainly yours to make, but I think it would be a grave injustice to our hobby if you weren't contributing. I wish you the best of luck and am truly happy to hear that sales at KCS are favorable.

All the Best,
Jeff Carder

Thanks John. I'll second that Jeff.

If all the hi-fi 'brains' leave this site, we will end up talking about cars, food, bikes, drink and other drivel subjects etc.
It will be a sad day indeed.

"Mariusz - he is my countryman as well but he operates in Massachusetts and it is not walking distance from where I am. I will take you on this offer - didn't you say 75% discount?

Kijanki"

Close!!!!!!

Mariusz - That's great! I read Stereophile review of 707 speakers. Have you heard them? The other option is to keep modifying my current speakers but I have already problems with new tweeter (Morel Supreme 110). Maybe two Fostex unit could replace speakers I have. Size is pretty much the same and the box is very rigid (Paradigm Studio/60).

Couple years back (I think in 2007), during N.Y Home Entertainment Show if memory serves me right - I audition Lipinski speakers and met the man himself.
From what I've heard, it was one of the few positive demonstrations over the 2 days period spend at the Hyatt hotel. My impression (then) of Lipinski speakers reflect those found in Stereophile review - accuracy, lock of coloration, delicacy and dynamics when called for. Of course with use of his own subs and paired with SS mono-block amps.....which but away , you can all have in the sweetest deal ever.

Or you can wait few months and I will inform you and ask you to hear for yourself - brand new speakers that hopefully will turn heads ( at very reasonable price I might add).

Cheers
Mariusz

Jeff (Cardersound),
The Frugal Horn website shows a modelled frequency response curve for the Sachiko, on which the Madison is based I believe. The curve has some mean dips in the lower mid-range area. Can you tell me to what these are due? Are they artifacts of modelling? Do they show up in real life?

TBone, the curve also seem to indicate a 10db drop from 90Hz to 50Hz, but in reality my Madisons are very strong in the bottom. I can easily compare them with my HT speakers which are Meadowlark Shearwaters which are rated -3db at 34Hz.

Obviously my ears aren’t SPL meters, so it may be that the attenuation at the bass, and the dips you refer to, are present and I am not hearing them. To my ears the Madison are some of the very best speakers I have heard bar none.

But then I am biased as I own a pair :-).

Regards
Paul

Pauly, I am intrigued so am thinking of how to make some myself. I expect I could get some relief from the LHS of the graph through room/floor/ceiling reinforcement (and if one could spiral the top horn so it went out the side, I would could improve the bass even more.

With your comparison to the Meadowlarks, are you suggesting that the Madison bass compares favorably? or that you can tell the difference...

My original question was actually referring to the dips from 200Hz up to 1000Hz, where immediate-space room reinforcement probably plays less of a role (but reflections play more of a role).

T_Bone, the bass compares favorably with that of my Meadowlarks. The Madisons need no bass reinforcement as mine are 6’-7’ from the walls.

Soundwise, the Meadowlarks now put me to sleep. They sound so terribly slow compared to the Madisons that I had to relegate them to HT duty. (And I really did like them a whole lot before)

As I mention, I cannot hear any dips, but I suspect we are not sensitive to dips in sounds as we are to peaks. My room is heavily treated so this could possibly give me a flatter curve than the one posted. It’s difficult to say - I go by ear alone and don’t let measurements drive what I like or not.

Regards
Paul

T_bone

Tybones have great image, speed and soundstage....no question about it.

Bass is dynamic and tunefull but if the last two octaves are important to you, I would consider the Sachiko double horn design and 8" Fostex instead.

Your spiral idea is quite difficult to execute.
I am working on the similar design as we speak and I can tell you that it is far from easy. In fact, my design includes
double spiral horn with omnidirectional qualities.

It should be fun playing around with those.

Cheers

Mariusz

Thanks Gents (Mariusz & Pauly),
The last two octaves are important to me because I think they're important to the music.

Mariusz, couldn't the spiral simply be a matter of switching the "hole" to the side (covering the front), and switching the stacked ladder (which is seen in the back corners of the top and the bottom) so that it guided the wave out that side rather than the front?

T_bone
That is not what I had in mind.

Your above proposal is not so simple , necessary or present any benefit over the original design.

One of Sachiko's design benefits is that the speakers can be placed relatively close to the front wall.

You can always try to improve the build quality, tweak the box and the driver.

I will include the link tomorrow what I had in mind by double horn spiral design and omnidirectional wave guide by the use of cones at the top and bottom mouth exits.

Another interesting design would be a single spiral horn with driver firing upwards towards cone-dispersion piece for omnidirectional qualities. A use of the super-tweeter might be necessary or helpful in getting the right amount of resolution and air.

It is going to be a bussy winter. :)

MARIUSZ

Hi T

Sorry for the delay in my response, as I haven't been visiting the board lately, and I would like to thank Pauly and Mariusz for their input. The new CarderSound models(Madison on down), are completely different than the DIY plans on Frugal-Horn, so a direct comparison would not help you. They are not even based on the Frugal-Horn designs except for their similar outward appearance.

For what it's worth, Pauly and Mariusz are exactly on the mark. To answer your question more directly, have no fear. In practice, most of the nulls shown in the graphs for the FH models will not exist -they're mainly caused by limitations in the software.

Hope this helps.

Best,
Jeff Carder
CarderSound

Single driver speakers sound great after you do the Absolute Phase tweak on them!

Listen to well design SD speakers and you will find it very hard to go in any other direction. Match it with SET amp and its seductive qualities andd you will be in heaven.
Build it yourself.....ahhhhhh , what a felling.
Seat pretty and enjoy the magic.

Jeff's line of SD speakers is the perfect exemple.(others too)
Is Jeff's design base on original Sachiko (Cardersound Madison)? I do not know and I do not care. What matters is that it is a fine speaker (As well as TyBone).
The point is, that when done right - it works.
Sure.......to get the most out of any design, one must pay atention to details and a lots of tweaking.
The fruit will show in sound to die for.

Jeff,
thanks for opportunity to audition the Madisons and TyBones.
They are awesome.

I am in the works to build my own Sachiko based speakers as well as another (new design(s)) SD speaker that hopefuly will turn heads.

I wish you well and hope to see you again sometimes.

Best
Mariusz

Apologies Jeff and thanks for your answer, I had read on other threads that the Madison was based on the Sachiko, and I remember a post several months ago by yourself saying that your then newly formed company was building speaker cabinets from the Spawn family plans on the Frugal Horn website. I was not aware that Madison had different internals than the Sachiko. I commend you for your commercial attitude towards the designers back then and admire that you have developed the internals of your boxes further.

Thanks for the comments. I thought the dips on the Spawn family plans website were perhaps spurious. That makes me feel quite a bit better.

No apologies necessary, T. They are very similar in their outward appearance, and it is easy to make those assumptions. The original models were exact to the plans for the Sachiko,and is one of the finest single horn designs I've heard. The original designer of those plans, Scott Lindgren from the UK, is also responsible for the upgraded design path/internals for the new CarderSound models. The difference is not subtle, and upon hearing the original version Madison, I was doubting that it could be made better, but Scott schooled me the day I built the first new version cabinet. In this case, I was very happy to be proven wrong. The new model line cabinets(v2)are the best performing horns I've heard. That doesn't mean there isn't better out there. I just haven't heard it.

But, make no mistake, Mariusz is on a mission. That boy just might come up with something really special. My hunch is he'll spend more time on tweaking than he did to build his new boxes. I get the distinct feeliing that he'll die tryin'. Right, Mariusz?

Thank you both for the kind comments. T, building your own pair is both fun and rewarding. Do it. There is little that can replace the feeling of firing up your boxes for the first time. They don't even have to look that good, to sound good. You should see my first pair. I wouldn't show them to anyone, but they make wonderful sound in my shop, and are a constant reminder to me of what I don't want them to look like...lol. Practice practice practice.

If you run into any stumbling blocks along the way, and develop any questions, please don't hesitate to get in touch with me through my web site. http://CarderSound.com/
I would be more than happy to assist you in any way I can. Good luck with everything.

Mariusz, I look forward to our next meeting. I just finished the center channel and the rear HT surrounds. I'll email you some pics when I get a chance.

You both take care till we chat again.

Best,
J

I have heard the Cain and Cain iBen's several times and they were just great. I heard them with some Cary Audio SLP98P and Cary low power amps (can't remember which ones) and a VPI HRX turntable, what a great sound that system made.

They had the Cain sub with them too.

Beautiful speakers too.

This is the only single driver set up I have ever heard that I liked. To me most sound very limited.

Jeff,
please do contact me if you could.
For some strange reasones ALL of my contacts and emails vanished from my Gmail account.......I do not think it is becouse of my porn addiction :):)
but I still have to get in touch with Gmail staff to try to recover my contacts etc.

The center and surrounds sounds like interesting idea. In fact, I have the plans for on-wall Single Driver Fostex base surrounds as well but since I am not into HT stuff (love film but the format and excesive gear idea... sucks) Those might never see the daylight.....who knows.
All I can say - you are on the right track just keep on going.
From what I have heard, you will do just fine.
I wish you a great success with your line of speakers.
You deserved it.

As to your guess........well
you are probably right.....I have some crazy ideas.

Sachiko boxes will get some "Royal" treatment. Tweaking them is another story though.
I still have few weeks to put the master plan in motion. That is the time when the custom drivers will arrive.
But that is half of the story. (the helf that I am not to worry about)
The other half is a completely new design that I promised to post in this thread yesterday but did not. I will try to do it tonight.....if time permits.
I will be looking for thoughts, reactions and concerns from fellow audiophiles and DIYers.......and you Jeff as well.

I will come back later tonight and try to pass on some details and pics.

Cheers
Mariusz

Hi there,
here is a little tease
A prototype double spiral horn

Design will be based on the double spiral horns
prototype by fellow DIYer. The actual spiral will be more advanced
Loading top and bottom of the speaker equally with dispersion wood tuned cone (mushroom). The distance between the cone(s) and the mouth can be adjustable to fine tune the bass. Driver used will be modified Fostex Fe206e .

I am hoping to have this speaker finished by the end of this year in very advanced cabinet and exotic finishes with help of few talented craftsmen and myself.

To be continue..........

Mariusz

Maruiusz........love the design. Will be interesting to see what kind of low frequency extension you can derive from it. Looks like plenty of "tuning" opportunities, but SPL is where my interest would be here. As you know, I am a big fan of the artistic approach as well as the sonic potential. This design gets high marks from me cosmetically. Love the look, and I'm glad to see that you'll be the one doing all the sanding to make that path smooth...lol. Nice creative flair, though. You'll have to bring them down so I can audition them. The reduced size is a true benefit of this design if you can come even close to the sonics on your properly built pair of Sachiko's. Thank you for sharing. Best of luck with it. I did email you to give you my contact info, as well as some pics to share.

Best,
Jeff Carder
http://CarderSound.com/

Hi Jeff,
thanks for your email.
The surrounds and center look very nice.
It is cool that you did not forget about those who might think of using your speakers for their stereo rig but still have an option to expend to 5.1 SACD or AC3.
Without a doubt, it must be a great "SD speaker" system.

Seems like you do not get to much rest lately.
It has been only a month and you've already came out with the new subs, center & surrounds.
Very impressive.

As to my prototype, well it is nothing to go bananas about.
Yes, its size is/will be much smaller then Madisons - about 54" high, 12" deep, 12" wide.
And I am not really trying to replicate the sound of the Sachiko. In fact, my biggest challenge and what drove me into this project is the idea of the single driver speaker that is:
- relatively easy to drive, including SET amps.
- manageable size
- very high WAF ( my wife loves these speakers already and gave me her blessing for this and another project)
- achieving decent low frequency response.
- source direct and omnidirectional qualities.
- but the most importantly - awesome, 3D, dynamic and huge sound that can be fit into the small to medium rooms.

There is another project that I am also very exited about.
True omnidirectional speaker with the use of the single full-range driver and horn-loaded super tweeter. But that is in the really far future.....maybe next year or so.

I will be more then happy to have you over to listen to the first pair. Sometime by the end of this year during one of the NY Raves. I am planning to host the special "Analog Rave" - with my two or three modified TT, Sachiko and Double Spiral speakers as well as RWA (Red Wine Audio) new (prototype) battery-powered phono-stage and my own Isabella battery preamp.
Should be fun.

I will try to share with the rest about the progress and the end results.

Take care and hope to see you in the near future.

Regards
Mariusz

Here are some sketches.
One is the prototype of spiral design (similar to the omni that I am working on. Except the driver will be firing upwards toward the wood-turn cone.....as well as super tweeter in the same configuration) and Sachiko with a twist:

Spiral design

and

Sachiko with a twist

I have also purchase Melody M300b mono SET amps which will be used to voice both. Should be fun.....all winter long.;)

JohnK
Thanks for the vintage RS drivers. Will use those in OB designs and another system for my daughter (9.5yo , loves music and TT)
Thanks again

Mariusz

Cheers

Glad you can use them. I have much stuff about. Nice for someone to enjoy it. Not into hording;) One of my friends is is homes filled with TT, Tone arms, NIB Lenco TTs. Little goat paths run through the tall piles of kit. Have more maybe I should have a audio rummage sale;) And invite my TT bud. My Piles start at 1890 to modern. Love the vintage but I don't use just collect. Might be time for someone else to enjoy it.

At the risk of stirring up the 4" hornet's nest again, anyone heard any design based on the 4" Jordan driver - such as the Carolina Audio designs? I know this driver has a following.

Marty

I have. Its OK. Good in small system or rooms.Ive built with Jordan and 1 of my friends really explored the same design CAD uses. Tried many small drivers of quality. If you want some thing special check out fe138esr its a 5in the best small wide band Ive heard. Works great in TL designs.

Hey John,
here in NY we came out with the idea which helps with moving unwanted or excessive gear/parts/services.
It is sort of audiophile "garage sale". Ones a month we hold the audiophile meeting (Rave) where auditions/deals/trades can be made. No PP fees, shipping, aggravations etc,etc.

P.S

PM send

Ones again thanks

Mariusz