Single driver speakers - opinions


1.Design - what is IYO the best design and why?
2.Sound - How would you describe the sound in comparison to other speaker designs?
3.Amplification - what works and what doesn't?
4.Is the WAF stopping your from moving in that direction?
What do you like or dislike about SD spks?
DIY v.s Commercial designs - Pros and Cons.

Feel free to express yourself and your thoughts about the Single Driver design speakers in this thread.

Ideas, your projects, pics, experiances are all fun and welcome.

From my experiance with at least two SD commercial design that actually worked like a charm, I have to say that I am seriously concidering it as my next DIY project.

Awesome speakers when done right.

Cheers
Mariusz
mrjstark

Showing 5 responses by cardersound

Let's see if I am getting all this right.....

Stronger cabinet....check

More expensive drivers.....check

Stronger baskets.....check

good better best theories...check

Graphs, charts, software, data sheets galore...check

Years of speaker building experience....check

Expensive brand name speaker wire.....check

Expensive brand name binding posts....check

Well researched and proven design plans....check

Enabled drivers........check

Wait....no...c37 drivers.....check

No, wait.....expensive stock drivers....check

Hmmmm, maybe.....inexpensive drivers...check

Finishes........check

Opinions, biases, slight of hand......check

Checkbook......check

Reviews......check

Distribution.....check

Marketing......check

Oh, and ....lol...almost forgot the most important...Ears...CHECK

Everything I've left out......CHECK

Wow, we all have lots to think about. From the newbie trying to understand and
plot an audio path right up to the most knowledgable and respected individuals
in our hobby. For the record, John, I consider you the latter. Facts,
opinions, hyperbole, passions, confusion, and unfortunate but true, some real
snakes whose sole focus is to rip off the buying public. On this, we agree.

These attributes are common to our industry, because they are common to life. I
won't waste anybody's time discussing it in detail. Just like I've done and
still do, folks have to forge their way through all the fog. Experimenting,
stumbling, reviewing, building, buying, selling, etc, to find your audio truths
and nirvana.

First, with all due respect, don't try and tell me that your post is "not an
attack" when you say things like "This modded drivers just a way for a schmuck
to make a buck"....and "Better to buy a more costly original equipment driver than let any self proclaimed
expert muck one up so"....and "Average DIY types using coatings on cheap drivers
than pricing such up. Is almost as bad as the polished rocks and magic clocks."
That, in my humble opinion, is an attempt at political trickery, and I was
shocked to see that you put out that type of verbiage, to say the least.
Respectfully, though, I understand loud and clear that it is your personal
"audio truth".

In so many ways, I am glad that I am not a self proclaimed anything. I just
build cabinets and market them. I develop my audio truths as I go along, and
yes, they change quite frequently. Like any truth, audio truths are a moving
target, always changing and evolving. Serious convictions that I acquired in
the beginning, have all but been eliminated over time, and I'm sure that will
happen over and over again. Which, brings me to my own personal thoughts about
eNaBled drivers.

Fact: If there was one best way to go, we would only have one choice to select from. One amp. One preamp. One CDP. One DAC.
One IC. One speaker cable. One Speaker.

Reality shows us something entirely different. Our choices and selections are
HUGE! This can be both good and bad. Fact: Each person hears differently, and
sometimes, wants to hear something different from his own system than he hears
at his buddies house.

I've had this experience many times. I've come away from peoples houses with
expensive systems thanking my lucky stars that my budget system sounded the way
it did. So, to say that eNaBled is a waste of money, or that it takes a system
backwards, or is a rip off is an unfair statement in my opinion and shouldn't be
heralded as such a concrete fact in the manner in which you put it out there.

I'm certainly not going to deny the fact that with regards to eNaBled drivers,
there aren't very passionate believers and non believers, but does it change the
sound? Sure it does. Whether or not it changes it to your particular taste or not, is not for anyone of us to decide except the end user. It is not a
scam, rip off, or a joke. From what I've read and heard, Bud P, hasn't made
much money from his countless hours of testing and research, except for the few
audio enthusiasts who feel obligated to reward him for his honorable efforts.
Mostly on a donation basis and a "hand shake" personal commitment from what I
hear. Instead, he has shared on many forums(and I'm sure thousands of emails),
this info free of charge to any and all who were interested. I would hardly
call this "a schmuck to make a buck", but you are certainly entitled to your own
opinion.

Personally, I enjoy what the eNaBled process does for the sound coming from my
speakers. So much so that I now include them with all my horns as standard
issue. That's not to say that if someone wanted to save a few dollars(about
$160), I wouldn't install a stock version. It's the way I want to hear it.
Some say, eliminating cone break up kills the HF organics and makes things sound "less real". My ears don't hear that. For sure, the process does give
the impression of increased bass and seemingly better integration of the bass to
the mid bass. I just love this part of what eNaBled does for my sound. This is
what I hear, and frankly, I could care less about all the data and if the
process makes the cone slower due to added weight. Cones are made of many
different materials all the time that certainly effect their speed, weight,
performance, etc. And, as a result, they produce a certain "sound". I guess I
like a fast single driver "slowed up" a bit, but many may !
not care for it. Who cares? To each his own. If you like the sound they
produce, buy it, keep it, listen to it, and be happy. If you don't like it, why
not simply say, "it's not for me", or something to that affect. Don't attempt
to degrade someone's passionate attempt to produce and offer a product they
believe beneficial to their hobby, and then call them a scam artist, simply
because they might be profiting from it. That's just plain wrong.

Everybody is right. Everybody is wrong. And, in the end, all that matters is
if your happy with your choices. Both in audio and in life. 4" driver? 8"
driver? Are my 2 7" drivers in my sub woofer better than 4 15" subs in a bass
bin? No one could ever say for sure. It boils down again, to a matter of taste
and what you want to hear. In my simple experience, they produce different
presentations. Both are right, and both are good. They produce what the
designer intended them to do. Nothing more, nothing less.

Wilson Speakers. I have read some pretty damaging posts and script on the
Internet. Not all of it negative. Not all of it positive. Some call it the
most inaccurate loud speaker on the planet. Who cares! What matters is if it
produces the sound you want to hear. Personally, I don't care for any speaker
that has a crossover, but that is my taste, and for whatever reason, or how I
developed it, matters not to me. I am happy with what I hear coming from my system. I have heard two different Wilson models, and although they
are not my cup of tea, and certainly not affordable to me, I would not say that
they are not a formidable offering. Is Dave Wilson a scam artist? Hardly. He
certainly believes in his product and is a great marketer, and in his own mind,
justifies the cost he charges to own a pair. Ultimately, a manufactures success
in the market, is driven by just that. The Market. The buying public is who
will always have the power. Regardless of opinion, Dav!
e Wilson is in for the long haul. Are there equivalents out there for less
money? Yep. Could it be someone's opinion that there is better out there for
less money? Yep. just like amps. Just like cables. Just like speakers.

Bottom line. It is sound. And, it comes in all shapes and sizes to fit
individual tastes and applications and budgets. I would just offer that no one
should discourage someone else from experimenting with a different product,
simply because it doesn't make sense to them. You might be robbing someone of their audio happiness in
the process. Especially when it comes from a well respected industry icon like
yourself, John.

Try as anyone might, there is simply no right and wrong with some of our choices
in this hobby. Spend what you are willing or are capable of, and just enjoy
where the journey takes you. And above all....enjoy the music your way.

Close your ears to us all, and open them to your own system and music. After
all, that is the only truth worth believing.

Jeff Carder
Hi T

Sorry for the delay in my response, as I haven't been visiting the board lately, and I would like to thank Pauly and Mariusz for their input. The new CarderSound models(Madison on down), are completely different than the DIY plans on Frugal-Horn, so a direct comparison would not help you. They are not even based on the Frugal-Horn designs except for their similar outward appearance.

For what it's worth, Pauly and Mariusz are exactly on the mark. To answer your question more directly, have no fear. In practice, most of the nulls shown in the graphs for the FH models will not exist -they're mainly caused by limitations in the software.

Hope this helps.

Best,
Jeff Carder
CarderSound
Hi JohnK

Not that my opinion counts for anything, and how I feel matters not in the whole scheme of things, but for what it's worth, nice job and good call on your last two posts. I was delighted when I saw your responses. The choice to continue posting is certainly yours to make, but I think it would be a grave injustice to our hobby if you weren't contributing. I wish you the best of luck and am truly happy to hear that sales at KCS are favorable.

All the Best,
Jeff Carder
No apologies necessary, T. They are very similar in their outward appearance, and it is easy to make those assumptions. The original models were exact to the plans for the Sachiko,and is one of the finest single horn designs I've heard. The original designer of those plans, Scott Lindgren from the UK, is also responsible for the upgraded design path/internals for the new CarderSound models. The difference is not subtle, and upon hearing the original version Madison, I was doubting that it could be made better, but Scott schooled me the day I built the first new version cabinet. In this case, I was very happy to be proven wrong. The new model line cabinets(v2)are the best performing horns I've heard. That doesn't mean there isn't better out there. I just haven't heard it.

But, make no mistake, Mariusz is on a mission. That boy just might come up with something really special. My hunch is he'll spend more time on tweaking than he did to build his new boxes. I get the distinct feeliing that he'll die tryin'. Right, Mariusz?

Thank you both for the kind comments. T, building your own pair is both fun and rewarding. Do it. There is little that can replace the feeling of firing up your boxes for the first time. They don't even have to look that good, to sound good. You should see my first pair. I wouldn't show them to anyone, but they make wonderful sound in my shop, and are a constant reminder to me of what I don't want them to look like...lol. Practice practice practice.

If you run into any stumbling blocks along the way, and develop any questions, please don't hesitate to get in touch with me through my web site. http://CarderSound.com/
I would be more than happy to assist you in any way I can. Good luck with everything.

Mariusz, I look forward to our next meeting. I just finished the center channel and the rear HT surrounds. I'll email you some pics when I get a chance.

You both take care till we chat again.

Best,
J
Maruiusz........love the design. Will be interesting to see what kind of low frequency extension you can derive from it. Looks like plenty of "tuning" opportunities, but SPL is where my interest would be here. As you know, I am a big fan of the artistic approach as well as the sonic potential. This design gets high marks from me cosmetically. Love the look, and I'm glad to see that you'll be the one doing all the sanding to make that path smooth...lol. Nice creative flair, though. You'll have to bring them down so I can audition them. The reduced size is a true benefit of this design if you can come even close to the sonics on your properly built pair of Sachiko's. Thank you for sharing. Best of luck with it. I did email you to give you my contact info, as well as some pics to share.

Best,
Jeff Carder
http://CarderSound.com/