Since there are such strong feelings regarding audio gear, with one company being right while the others are wrong, would it be easier on our psyche if there were only one company?
For example, one person might love Krell gear while another prefers the Rouge 88. Rather than the two of them fighting or disagreeing about the merits or shortcomings of the other, wouldn't it be easier/better if these conflicts did not exist?
Is it possible that there will ever be a piece of gear on which all audiophiles could agree?
Over time it wouldn't really make any difference as far as product availability goes. If the single hi-fi provider acted in their long-term best interest they would aggressively institute a product differentiation campaign to segment the market and thereby charge higher prices for specific goods. At first the differentiation would be cosmetic based or feature set driven, but eventually they would even start to cater to those consumers who want better sounding products. Over time the single provider would provide whatever the market demands and fill every possible marketing niche. The downside is that prices for these niche products would be astronomically higher than in today's open marketplace. Of course, this all assumes that Bill Gates is not in charge of the single hi-fi provider.
I guess audiophiles could agree on gear if the components were perfect, but with design compromises comes personal preference. Plus, consumers are individualists, and sound quality is not the only determining purchasing factor. You know the story.
"Is it possible that there will ever be a piece of gear on which all audiophiles could agree?"
Sure think Nrchy! Screw Free Trade! Lets just roll out the Red Carpet and welcome the commies!
-laugh-
It would make things alot simpler, but god, this website would be boring as hell.
Imagine CES, it would be going on constantly throughout every brick and mortar in the world!!!!
Audio clubs would totally suck ass too. Everyone get together, job blow says "I just upgraded to the Generic CD1 player. Everyone else would nod thier heads "Yup. got one of them too" "i also have one" "yes, we all have one"
"Hey did you hear the Generic FX3 speakers? oh wait, everyone already owns one!"
Sure, and that would be the same day we all agree on the best music, women (sorry, Elizabeth!), cars, vacation sites, vodka, tequila, and best boxer of all time. Easy enough, don't you think?
My motivation in asking this was due to the RAGE expressed by certain people, even some who have posted on this thread, that hate anyone who does not have, and appreciate the same gear they have.
In these days of political correctness all this hostility cannot be allowed. It amazes me the venom that some people are willing to spew on those with other likes and dislikes. If there were no choices there would be no controversy, and we could all get along.
Does it make any sense for people to be hostile toward one another because of their choices of stereo gear?
this is a concept I remember from 1967....we would pass around a joint and then nobody gave a dam about the equipment.........we just got into the music.....ah youth
Why not just call the company "Big Brother"? You'd still have your arguments though; Which speaker's better, the Grand Orwellian Rhapsodys, the Winston 1984's, or the O'Brien Conformists?!?
Nrchy right there with you! Buying a Bose Wave system, & scraping all else! Bose might be the final frontier as a single audio component manufacturer anyhow with their great advertising? Might as well jump aboard now...Titanic or not... BOSE ROCKS!!!
Does it make any sense for people to be hostile toward one another because of their choices of stereo gear?
No. There are so many other things for people to get hostile towards one another about, like the color of their skin, their religious or political beliefs, or the way they part their hair. Human beings seem to have a long history of hatred based upon their differences. The stereo example is simply a microcosm of what's been going on throughout history which is certainly not going to be cut off through homoginization. I think something like what you are suggesting could only come about with some kind of sweeping altered percetption of the world. One that does not see things in terms of black and white, right and wrong. I also think that as long as we're talking about human beings, that this is utterly impossible. It is our nature to attach meaning to virtually everything. The best we can do is become aware of what we are doing... step away from ourselves in a way and get some perspective that is less egocentric and more objective... that, or we can just keep on hating and killing each other off.
Thank you for the clarification. I read your post the first time, and attacked straight away. So your point is well taken, and my callous response to your thread certainly verified your underlying concern. I apologize for taking up the fight where none was merited.
no, I think I hate all human beings, except me... And I am only a little bit human.... So I can live with myself. All of you are free to stop existing at any time. No problem. I can go on... "living in my own little world.... " (8^Q...
Boa2 I took no offense at your remarks. I wanted to let people repond a little to make the point that there are hundreds of good companies out there making gear. There are far less that I would by from, but that doesn't mean that their products are garbage or that people who like their products are idiots yet when some people don't care for company 'A' some others attack them for disagreeing.
I have gotten irrational e-mails from people who have questioned everything from my hearing to my lineage based on my choice of amplifiers.
Boa2 I have nothing against you or your choice of gear, I am even glad that you have opinions, and feel the urge to share them, but you were polite/humerous or at least that's how I took it. You have every right to have opinions and should feel free to share them without fear of castigation. That's my point!
I, too, missed your point first time around. Thanks for the clarification. I've been the victim of exactly what you talk about - the manufacturer of a $15,000.00 pre-amp denigrating me for my passive remote control device. Also had the manufacturer of a $8,000.00 pair of speakers tell me my ProAc 2.5s ($5,000.00) "are a start toward a real system, but they don't tell the truth. I guess if you like artificial sound, that's fine"
Being properly ashamed I have withdrawn from searching for anything better because it now seems I'm incapable of finding "truthful components". Guess I'll just remain ignorant for a while longer.
Ah, the Wintel strategy. That stands for Microsoft Window + Intel. Funny thing is lots of people are happy with their Linux, Unix, Apple, and AMD computers, maybe happier than Wintel owners even...
It is too easy to let somone get you down on something. Alot of the time people seem o think they know what is right and wrong, and do not realize it is only thier opinion, not a fact.
I used to have a surrround set of Deftechs, the mains were 2004tls and the rears were bp6's
i came onto this board thinking i had a pretty decent system, and soon i was doubting my gear and thinking it wasnt nearly as good as i thought. Well, every time i listened to it i sure liked it. And now that i had to sell it all off to pay out a debt forced upon me by a bad roomate decision, i sure do miss em.
it is all about what YOU like, it is YOUR hobby, and what is good for me isnt always what is good for YOU.
There is alot of support in this hobby, but it is also full of elitism... "My gear is better than yours"
People always say stereo gear cannot be a status symbol, but here it sure seems to be sometimes.
I have learned alot about audio gear, i know most of the major manufacturers, i know how all of this stuff works, and ive heared alot of gear. Ive gotten the impression occassionally that since i have radioshack speakers that some people think my opinion is pretty useless and i dont know what im talking about.
anyways, I getr alot of suggesstions about gear, but in the end, it is what will make ME happy?
Gotta buy it because you like it. Dont buy it because "it is supposed to be good" Buy it because you want it, and if other people get upset about that, well then they can sit there and rant while i enjoy my system. :)
Tom Ryan, I wonder if these people actually think we are going to throw away the things they ridicule and go out and buy their product because we have been properly chastised. I don't understand the point of these attacks.
I do not own any tube gear, although there are a few products that interest me (like the Wolcott 220's and the CJ LS16 pre-amp) but all things being equal, at this point I prefer SS. I have nothing against people who use tube gear, because they use tubes, I am frustrated with people who think that I am wrong for prefering SS though. I'm sure there are tube fans who have been taken to task because of their choice of gear too. It's not a one way street.
I don't expect the owner of the Rogue 66 to sell it because I don't want it, but he is foolish if he thinks I will never buy another Krell because he doesn't like it. I wish people understood how dumb they sound when they attack a person for their choice of gear.
People are killed all over the world for being the wrong color or attending the wrong church, or voting for the wrong political party, stereo equipment is not worth fighting over, it's there to be enjoyed.
I didn't think you took offense to what I said, and I appreciate your comments. When it comes to audio, I just happen to have an appreciation for all the brands, simply because I just like jawing about the game.
However, what your clarifying post did alert me to is in the multitude of ways in which I am remarkably intolerant. My response was a case in point. So I thank you. Your post had quite the unexpected effect from a place I don't normally look to find such an education. That's what I meant.
Nrchy, I saw some of the posts that were exchanged before they were deleted. I think I caught a glimpse of what inspired this.
I had the feeling you were trying to prove something, you Ancient Provo Car Door (or something like that).
Marco, very good post.
We are wired to fear anyone different from us. Outside the family, the clan, the tribe. It's a survival trait, and one that we have to consciously aware of, now that our world has expanded beyond a copse of trees or a handful of caves.
The biggest dangers arise when demagogues try to (all too often successfully) to use those tendencies to govern, and give organized focus to such hatreds. So the best way to defend own desire (and in the US, we hold this desire to be a Right, most of the time) to be individuals is to ensure that others have the same privileges.
One of the most powerful expressions of this, in the context of those masters of the divide the different and rule the masses approach, the Nazis:
First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist, so I said nothing. Then they came for the Social Democrats, but I was not a Social Democrat, so I did nothing. Then came the trade unionists, but I was not a trade unionist. And then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew, so I did little. Then when they came for me, there was no one left to stand up for me.
Niemoller
I've always appreciated that. I've had the (ahem) privilege of living under both Communist and Fascist regimes. Castro and Franco. They liked to use labels to conveniently dump anyone they felt should be marginalized, and therefore dehumanized. "Contra revolucinario," "revisionista." I see it (on a far less dangerous scale, but there nonetheless) in today's political frolicking. Isolate your enemies, paint them as a minority. Get the masses to see them as a danger to the tribe.
Beautifully put, KP. When some people start to take their hobbies too seriously they exhibit a primitive tribalism. Whether the hobby be hifi, attending football matches, golf etc etc. I think that some of it comes from insecurity, which itself is fed by modern society's consumerist rat-race.
No two pieces of my system are made by the same manufacturer, so I'd be a bit stuck if there were only a single manufacturer !
You guy gotta admit designers and maunfacturers of high end gear sure have a large emotional and financial investment in their stuff. Fortunately, we've all got a lot of choice for everything. I've never heard a tube based CD front end that sounds as good as the SS ones I own. Also never heard a SS amp sound (to me) as good as my Air Tight SET. I also like Turi vodka, so go figure.
How these tensions manifest themselves reflects the values of the society.
We express it in merchandise or sports loyalties (the bread and circuses) because that's what occupies much of our lives. This is far better than the ethnic and religious expressions that these fears forms in most places. If you are looking forward to your favorite team's next match, you are not very likely to want to strap a box of TNT to your behind. Seen in that light 'bread and circuses" are not the luxuries as they may appear but vital ingredients to the peaceful functioning of a complex society.
We deal with threats in two forms: fight or flight. You either kill it, or run away from it. Well, that doesn't work all that often anymore; we are dealing with more than gazelles and leopards. So we internalize it (anger, depression) or lash out in acceptable equivalents. Angry phone calls, letters, posts.
It's another survival trait we have to learn to control. It leaves very little middle ground. We will treat a small problem, say, a key sticking on your keyboard) with the same intensity that we would deal with something like a lion stalking us. It can be a great ability. We tackle all problems with intensity. So we can put a man on the moon or make music from a hole in the ground, a stick, and some banana leaves. It can also cause suicide over a change of some numbers on a balance sheet, or murder over a parking space.
Btw, yes, my keyboard is sticking. And it's one of the good "switched" keyboard that are so hard to find now. Roarr...err.. I mean... oink! oink!
Slappy, y'all better keep one eye on'yer rearview cause me'en sum'tha good'ol boys are gonna' be out this weekend lookin for sum SS-luvin', beer-guzlin' yahoos, like your own sorry-ass self, to put the hurtin' on sumthin' fierce. We'll be slicin' up some whoopass pie and there's a mighty big piece with your name on it Chris! You'd best pack up that SS boat anchor in the carton it came in and git your Yankee-hiney cross the border a'for we knock it back to the 1970's where'n it belongs! Y'all can leave the interconnects and powercords behind cause you won't be needin' those where you'll be heading. Your kind's been polutin' the clean mountain air of the Rockies with that harsh, head-bangin' sound one late night too often! Y'all better re-read the lil' piggie's advice there bud, especially the "flight" part and start flappin' sumthin' other than yer' butt-cheeks.
Now what was I saying about tolerance and perspective...? Screw it! There are way too many folks out there like Chris, who seem to think the sounds coming out of their SS rigs have some remote similarity to music. As long as there are folks like that out there, drinkin' from the same fountains, sitting in the same classrooms as our children, taking up seats on public transportation, why then every red-blooded American patriot should see it as their duty to rid our nation of this plague of transistor-worshiping lunatics!
Nrchy, why so thin skinned? Do you really think those people would respect you more if you spent more time rebiasing your output transistors or better yet chasing down NOS Motorolas? Maybe you should get an amp that breaks down more often or can't adequately drive a full range speaker.
Hey, if you guys wanna play with yer distorted-assed-tubes go right on ahead. No! Really! Im sure with a THD of 10% that yer getting the best experience possible! Gimme a break! Hell, Look at that WAVAC $350,000 piece of junk! Tubes are the BOSE of the OLD
HA HA HA HA
I dont need no stupid Magic Glowing Bubble sticking out of my rig to give me a good musical experience!
Come on you old farts! Time to put down the six pack of Ensure and take a listen to something called Technology. I know you all got a chance to see mozart in concert, but things have actually advanced since then.
"Oh no, my tube is going out!" Better get some vasoline, cause ill tell ya where to stick those glorified light bulbs. Maybe it will provide enough light for the proctologist to find that stick you all have been looking for over the past 6 centurys
Flea Bitten? The only Flea Bitten thing i see are yer dogs curled up in front of yer amplifiers thinking that its a fire.
I feel so, so, very small! What have I done?! Slappy, you have shown me the error in my ways! I am SO TERRIBLY SORRY! Your words have mvoed me to an epiphany! I don't quite know what it is, or what it means, but I had it. I think I saw God, and he looked a lot like Nelson Pass! How could I have been so wrong? But, uh, KP is right...you do smell kind of funny. Oh, and me and the boys'll still be delivering that slice of that pie to you. We'll be sure to find some other reason for kicking your ass when we get there, but sorry for all the guff about the SS thing.
The most amusing aspect of my situation (other than reading these threads) is that I had sold my Krell amp before this person began their tirade and am currently using a friends Cary V12 monoblocks.
I'm pretty sure I will buy a Krell FPB 600 or the new FPB 700cx, so I can get back on the 'hate' list.
Nrchy-you posted to me in a previous thread "I wouldnt buy some of the gear you have on a dare" This thread had not taken on a personal attack mode until you posted these remarks. I came back swinging but after some thought, I had audiogon delete my follow up posts as I didnt want to heat up further the already heated thread. Now you post this thread crying about gear bashing? WOW!! In one of your emails to me you said "tubes are for old people" You told me you had some Conrad Johnson TUBE mono blocks you hated. In this thread you state you own no tube gear. I could go on about how this post (your post) is about people exactly like you,but who cares.. Man,what a hypocrite you are!!!
sorry,Cary mono's you said you hated. Practice what you preach Nirchy "I wouldnt buy some of the gear you have on a dare" "tubes are for old people" I think that says it all.
David once again you fall back into your previous form. I never said I hated the Cary's. I don't hate the Cary's but they are not as good as my previous amp. The Krell sounds better in every respect, but not by a huge margin. The Cary's are good amps, but I still prefer solid state.
The comments I made which said that your comments were inappropriate were made after you attacked a company about which the author of the thread was relating a complimentary experience. Perhaps you don't care for that company (which your comments clearly indicated), but that has nothing to do with the exemplary service he received from them.
Boa2 If I said that about tube CDP's I misspoke. I have never heard a tube CDP from any company. I'm still looking for a tube turntable : )!
Nrchy- I am not falling back to my 'previous form' I made an error in the mono's is all. You did say you hated them (and tubes) Why dont you mention your remarks about "I wouldnt own gear in your system on a dare" or "tubes are for old people" Or,and this is one I havent mentioned. "a nurse from Perry,NY figures" I still havent figured that one out! Do you dislike nurses? Male nurses? Perry,NY?? If any one would like to read the e-mails this person sent me e-mail me. It will show what a hypocritical moron this guy is. This thread is a farce by you Nrchy.
Nrchy-I just read your e-mails again. I stand corrected.I stated you wrote 'tubes are for old people" actually,you wrote "tubes are for old,fat people" You also wrote "your system is a poor excuse for noise" As I said,you are a major hypocrite and have posted one farce of a thread!!
After me and the boys are done with Slappy, we'll head on over to Nrchy's place! We got plenty of that Whoopass pie to go round. Don't worry Nrchy, it's low-fat! Can't help with the 'old' part though.
David, I did not post any of that on this site as I consider AudiogoN to be for mature adults, I responded in kind to the e-mails you sent to me. I did not ask you to contact me, and I do not want anything to do with you now.
Look at what you posted and then asked yourself if that is the type of material you want floating around the ethernet with your name attached! That is the perfect example of what I am complaining. You are irrational in your extreme anger toward anyone who does not have the same gear as you, or who prefers something else.
So do you think there should only be one system and you should be the one to decide what that will be, and the rest of us have to get what you have determined to be best?
Take some more of the meds you are slipping from the patients, but go for a sedetive this time.
So what you are saying is.Its ok to bash others gear as long as its not on audiogon? You are a hypocrite and its all too obvious you have prejudices. Explane your e-mail to me "A nurse from Perry,NY,figures".....I still am stumped by that one. And it's sedative,not sedetive. I have no 'anger' towards Krell owners,thats absurd. I posted in the Krell thread (which is what this thread is all about) That I had a friend who received poor service from Krell. Another poster stated he was treated poorly also. You made this personal by attacking my system in the forums and now you have the balls to post a thread to encourage anti-bashing gear?? LOL!
Still want to kick my ass?? As you wrote above "I consider AudiogoN to be for mature adults" You are a real piece of work. BTW..are you Carl_Eber??
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