My speakers are listed as going down to 40 HZ (Dynaudio 1.3 MkII monitors). There is an REL Strata III available locally that I might snag, try out and re-sell if I don't like/need it. My question is this: since I would not be using this for movies, do I even need this? I mostly listen to classical music, more chamber than symphonic, and occasionally listen to rock, jazz and other pop styles.
Am I likely missing something without that lowest octave? I'm thinking that 99% of the time the sub might not even be in use if it kicks in at 40 Hz.
Any comments, purely theoretical or from experience, will be welcome.
I agree with Rfogel18 completelly. That is a dumb statement. Most speakers just don't go down to the lowest frequencies. Not many are made that do. If you own Revel Salons that go down that low, well good for you, but if you own Maggies, or certain Wilson's, or Dynaudio, or Martin Logan's, or Quad ESL's......
Tmsorosk, We are not talking about speakers that extend to 19Hz. We are talking about a minimonitor with a 6.5" woofer that is rated to 40Hz. I have a question. If you connected a subwoofer to a system with main speaker that have rated output to 19Hz, where would you set the crossover for the subwoofer?
There are reasons, other than filling in missing frequencies, to use a sub. One of the benefits of using a sub is that it can free the speaker from trying to reproduce frequencies at the bottom of its range. Many times this will have the effect of allowing the speaker to produce more coherent mid-bass frequencies and decrease the distortion at the lower end of the woofer's range. Because of this I would encourage you to experiment with the crossover frequency. Trust your ears and set it where it sounds best. Everyone's room is different. I also agree that you should not turn it up too high. The effects should be subtle (except for movies!).
Rfogel18 ... Many things seem dumb to the uneducated . Transducers that extend to 19Hz , ( in room) hardly need bass reinforcement . Iv'e tried at least a dozen subs in the last 38 years and usually end up leaving them turned off for music . Regards Tim
Very few speakers can do what a sub does. I have Ascendo ZF3s, which go quite deep, and powerfully. I still use Entec LF20 subs, crossed over very low (I think 30Hz). Very often, they are silent, but when called on by the music (organ or electronic, mostly), their contribution to musical enjoyment is significant. It seems like there is often little corelation between speakers' specified cutoff frequency and what I actually hear from the speaker. It is a rare speaker that doesn't benefit from a subwoofer.
I have found that the better the quality of the main speaker the greater the improvement with a sub in added ambience and low level resolution. The addition of the sound of the hall for classical music the greater the retrieval of very low level sounds. I also have Maggie 3.6r's that get well down into the 30's but sound better with a sub crossed over below 40 and volume set so you just barely notice that the sub is on
Yeah...this subject seems to engender some weirdly snarky responses to what is a basic reality: Subs make the lower freqencies audible. Is that so wrong? Also there is something to be said for the imaging capabilities of small baffle speakers that don't have much bass combined with a good sub (like a REL) that can be a magic formula, without having to spend $97,000 on a pair of Rockports (speakers...not shoes).
I had Dynaudio confidence 3's (similar in bottom end spec's to your speaker I think) and went to Vandy 5a's with internal 500wpc powered subs. For me getting the bottom end of the frequency range reproduced at appropriate sound pressure levels was really a big deal and added a lot of enjoyment. A caveat is that you really need sub(s) that allow themselves to be individually tuned to blend with your speakers and to react appropriately to room resonances, otherwise you are buying a boom box that is maybe only good for movies or whatever. In my opinion. Still miss the Confidence 3's sometimes. Seems like every good speaker has certain songs that really make it shine.
Having owned a pair of REL Stadium 3's for approx. 8 years, I can say with certainty that all of the above posts recommending a REL sub(preferably 2)are spot on!!! As recommended, cross it/them over low and don't turn 'em up too loud.
I doubt Kenscollick has ever heard a GOOD sub used for music. He doesn't know what he's missing. They add much more than just additional low frequencies. As mentioned, they really open up the soundstage, add power and weight to the music, and all the little nuances and musical cues come through more clearly.
You are absolutely missing out. When I added a sub to my system it was the most. Dramatic upgrade I did, especially for music but it has to be a good sub. The low end subs will destroy sound quality.
Personally, there are many brands I'd look at before REL, but I would definitely look at a sub. My view is about a 180 from most on x-over frequency. I'd say cross pretty high for best results.
My reasoning is that careful placement of a sub will produce much smoother bass response than any speaker out in space possibly can - due to room modes/cancellation effects. Better yet, use DRC style bass EQ and the improvement is most often not only audible, but pretty startling.
In a carefully treated room, you can fix most of the mess down to 150hz or so and bass busters will usually get you into decent shape down below 100hz. After that, I let my subwoofer and EQ do the rest.
IME, the first benefit of a sub is smoother response in the critical 50hz to 100hz region, the increased LF extension and power are just icing on the cake.
"Need"? YES YOU DO! I'm a huge fan of the REL stuff for hifi. A friend turned me on to 'em a year or 2 ago (he has the same main speakers as I do). I bought a clean used one (Q150E) and man...anybody who smugly claims there is "no benefit" from a well designed sub instantly destroys their audio opinion credibility and shall be forever removed from my christmas card list. Read the current issue of "Absolute Sound" for a nice REL review...I've done the experiment of turning the REL off and on to see the difference, and when off it dramatically diminishes every aspect of the overall "life" (tonality, soundstage, dynamics, odor) of my system.
the Rel, which is a GREAT sub for music, will add a lot to your musical experience. Try crossing it over at 55hrz to start and go down from there.
I had a Rel B1 that I used with my Maggie 3.6R's (measured down to 34 hrz, about the same as your speakers), and I ended up with the sub crossed over at about 42 hrz, and not turned up too high on the gain, and man, what a difference.
I currently use a Def Tech Supercube 1 with my Maggie's crossed over at 40 (lowest setting), and once again, it's just sublime to add that sub for the lowest octaves.
Try the REL subwoofer, as I did (with a REL Stentor). I think you'll be favorably impressed with the bottom octave as well as the improved soundstaging (as stated very well by Teajay). If you don't like the change, there are lots of folks who like the REL, and you could sell it easily if it's in good shape. By the way, I'm a music-only listener.
If you were thinking of buying any other subwoofer besides a REL the results would be questionable, but REL subwoofers don't sound like subwoofers. A REL will produce clean musical bass that will complete your system. You won't believe what you've been missing. Granted, your Dynaudios may be rated to 40Hz, but those little mid/woofers just don't move much air.
You've got nothing to lose. If you don't like it REL's are easy to sell. I say go for it.
Yes, you are missing something, especially with classical music. Try a sub, but don't cross it over too high, and don't turn it up too loud. If your monitors are rated down to 40 Hz, try crossing over at 45 and 50 Hz. With good recordings and good components, you will hear and mostly feel exactly what you are missing.
Tostadosunidos, what you will find pretty amazing is not the lowest octave, but the amount that your soundstage will open up with more air around all the individual players on the stage. When I shut off my subwoofers, I use a pair in my system, my soundstage collapses and everything sounds so much flatter. As mentioned I use a pair , however I believe you will get the same results using one.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
