Should I bother to try a subwoofer?

Personally, there are many brands I'd look at before REL, but I would definitely look at a sub. My view is about a 180 from most on x-over frequency. I'd say cross pretty high for best results.

My reasoning is that careful placement of a sub will produce much smoother bass response than any speaker out in space possibly can - due to room modes/cancellation effects. Better yet, use DRC style bass EQ and the improvement is most often not only audible, but pretty startling.

In a carefully treated room, you can fix most of the mess down to 150hz or so and bass busters will usually get you into decent shape down below 100hz. After that, I let my subwoofer and EQ do the rest.

IME, the first benefit of a sub is smoother response in the critical 50hz to 100hz region, the increased LF extension and power are just icing on the cake.

Just one more opinion on this subject.

Marty

The older SF monitors (like my Minuettos) are a tough match for a sub because their upper bass was both elevated (relative to the mids) and a bit ragged. It's hard to find a good place to get a crossover that is both seamless within the mid bass and not too high in overall bass level.

I understand that more recent SF models are quite a bit more neutral in that region, so my comments should not taken as relevant to those circumstances.

Tostado,

If you happen to be an unethical lout:

You can order the SMS. Skip the EQ section and x-over section. Just use the RTA. Move the sub until you get the best results on the video readout and you will be very close to optimal placement. Trying to do the same thing by ear is -IME- both much more time consuming and much less reliable. You can then return the SMS.

I am not suggesting that a highly principled fellow like you would ever do such an unethical thing - merely observing (purely theoretically) that you could.

OTOH, if you tried that, you might end up exploring the x-over and EQ functions (IME, hard to live without once you've tried 'em)and decide to keep the thing, which might morally justify the whole evil plan.

Good Luck,

Marty

Nrenter,

At least one person here is recommending a crossover point of 80 hz (or higher). Me.

Marty

My earlier post explains my thinking. My own experience leads me to believe that high crossover points work best in most rooms, provided extreme care is used in managing the crossover function. I understand you prefer a different solution, but mileage does vary.

Tostado,

Audioquest provides an excellent idea. The Velo SMS-1 sub controller will help you get the set up right. It's a 180 degree difference from set-up by ear.

The cost is +/- $400, in-home money back trial period. If you decide against a sub - return the SMS-1. IME, it's a mistake to try to judge your subwoofer set up 'til you've used a tool like the SMS-1.

Marty

Tostado,

IME, the problem with set-up by ear is that you're trying to optimize for 3 major variables at once (and a few minor ones, too). Smoothest response will vary with room position, as will the native output level from the sub (as reinforcing or destructive room interactions have their way with the low hz output). The placement with the smoothest response will likely require a different level setting on your sub than the placement with the second smoothest response. Finally, the x-over frequency (and slope, if applicable to your set-up) must be optimized for the particular placement you've chosen. As above, likely to differ (unpredictably) between best, next best, etc. And you've got to pick the best compromise....

I'm sure you're better equipped for the task than I am, but it's an awful lot to ask of anyone to optimize that equation by ear.

Good Luck (and kudos on the self-improvement project, too).

Marty

Tostado,

I understand the finances.

That said, I do want to make it clear that I wasn't being sarcastic in acknowledging that your extensive musical training better equips you for the task I was describing. I've become much more attuned (pardon the pun) to pitch subtleties since I started studying guitar a few years back. However, I was trying to point out the difficulty inherent there for anyone undertaking the job.

Suffice it to say that - should you ever have the opportunity to add RTA and /or x-over flexibility and/or DRC down the road - you will likely be surprised at just how much improvement you'll get out of your existing sub/speakers.

Good Luck

Marty