Should I add a DDC? Looking for experienced advise please.

I posted this earlier. Fantastic video about DDC's.

(26) ABA Clips: Why you need a DDC - YouTube

no need, with your zen mini - just make sure your ethernet is filtered well

enjoy

DDCs are primarily for converting from USB. 

On a well engineered DAC all inputs are the same.

Plenty of high end (expensive) DACs where the inputs are not all the same.  It depends on the design.  For example, we just completed repairing and upgrading the Da Vinci Light Harmonic DAC - $43K back in the day.  All inputs were not the same.

@jjss49 That's where I'm at and not positive of what approach to take or if its even necessary. Do I add something at the ethernet/ZEN junction, or between the ZEN and Pontus and convert to I2s? Where would I see the most benefit if at all?

I'm not sure I want to add another component to be honest. Just trying to get an idea of others experience and decide if its for me or not.

J.F.

 I slipped an Iris between a Statement and Terminator Plus and even though the USB on the Statement is highly touted, converting to I2S was better even without using the clock out from the TP.

Quality HDMI cable will make a difference.

@johnfritter Have you read any of this guy’s writings on streaming? I use his optical streaming products with a media converter in front of the streamer. There is some explanation as to why this is the recommended way with optical.

John Swenson’s Tech Corner – UpTone Audio

@yyzsantabarbara Thanks for posting that link, what a great article!!

@yyzsantabarbara WOW! Is this the guy that writes Kamala's que cards? That's what I would call a de constructed word salad there! 

@johnfritter He is the guy that created the EtherRegen and also the OpticalRendu I use both with a cheap computer as my ROON Core server.

He has a white paper or a very long post somewhere that gave me a reason to setup my streaming this way. Amazing gear and I liked it so much that I have 3 OpticalRendu's. I use 2 media converters and 1 EtherRegen along with the 3 opticalRendu's  for my 3 DACs.

I posted a link to the whitepaper on some A’gon posts. Search the guy’s name and look for my post.

I’ve never read anything but very positive reviews from people who switched to an I2S connection, so as soon as as budget allows I’m buying a Singxer SU-6 DDC. My Musician Pegasus DAC also has an I2S input and seems a shame to not use it. FWIW.

@yyzsantabarbara Got it! I dont use a computer for anything other than to control my Innuos (yes I know the Innuos is a computer). You have way too many things in your chain for me. Thats why I am trying to figure out if adding one more piece is worth adding one more piece!

@soix  Thats what my conclusion seems to be. 

For anyone that is interested I will explain how I implemented the recommendation from John Swenson. My baseline requirements are ROON Core software and a USB capable DAC.

My streaming chain is actually very simple. It is just 2 pieces. I used to have only 1 piece, the OpticalRendu, before I read Swenson’s recommendation to add a media converter in front of the OpticalRendu and I found that improved things a tiny bit more.

My super simple streaming requires the following basics that everyone using ROON will have:

- a cheap computer to run ROON Core. Most use a $$ dedicated music server here but I do not since I use fibre optical downstream. My cheap computer is hidden somewhere in the house. It automatically starts up at 8AM and shuts down at 2:30AM to force me to stop listening to music and go to sleep. 

- a network switch with a fibre optical output

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Given the baseline setup listed above, connect a fibre optical cable from the network switch to the OpticalRendu and then connect the OpticalRendu to your USB capable DAC. Done. this is excellent quality streaming.

********************************************

I went a little fancier and added a media converter in-between the Network Switch and the OpticalRendu. So, I have now use 2 pieces of gear to stream. Which is still a lot simpler than most people.

In this setup I do not use the fibre optical output of the network switch. I use Ethernet output from the network switch to the media converter and then fibre optical from that to the OpticalRendu. Then USB to the DAC. Not very complicated and an improvement over the single optical conversion.

Remember fibre optical cannot carry analog noise (computer, Ethernet, switching power supplies on the computer network, et al), though Swenson’s comments state that some other ’bad thing’ can get by the optical cable (and into the DAC). That is why he recommends the media converter before the OpticalRendu.

BTW - I have 3 listening stations in 3 rooms in different floors of the house. I use some variation of what I described above with some other processes, but that is not relevant in the simple discussion of how to stream to a single DAC.

john swenson is a leading authority in the field and his learnings and advice should be heeded, imo

@yyzsantabarbara  Ok. I have a cheap computer. Its called a Zen mini MKiii by Innuos. Its designed to handle music and that's it. It cost $1000 with external Innuos power supply. I don't use Roon as I can't justify the cost. The Innuos sense 2.0 app works great for me and its free. I pay about $25 a month total for Qobuz and Tidal.

So following your path it sounds like I would need to add 4 more components to my system. 1, another cheap computer. 2, an OpticalRendu. 3, a media converter. 4, a network switch and all the extra cables and power supplies.

Since I don't have a multi story house to hide this stuff in as you do. I would have to try and put it all in my listening room. Being a simple average person the space also doubles as my dinning room when someone thinks they want to eat!

This is kind of why I am interested in the Denafrips Hermes option. I have one available to me for $1000. It has an optical isolation stage within plus would allow me to connect to my Pontus ii via I2S. Going this direction I add 1 component the Hermes, 1 power cable and a short HDMI cable.

What I am trying to decide is if I think its worth the $1000 or not. Starting to think I might just go for it and see for myself, I shouldn't have any trouble getting my money back if I decide it wasn't worth it.

J.F.

I recommend getting the DDC. I've made a lot of changes to my streaming setup over the past 2 1/2 years and adding a Gaia DDC was the most significant improvement. I'll chronicle my journey so you have some idea of the steps I took. 

2 1/2 years ago, I had a Roon ROCK server connected over ethernet to a Bryston BDP-2 streamer, which was connected to my Denafrips Terminator via AES/EBU (also tried SPDIF and preferred the balanced connection). The Roon server was connected through a cheap switch to the Bryston. 

I upgraded the switch to an EtherRegen with the Bryston connected to the quiet side. 

Added a linear PS for the EtherRegen. These last two changes were noticeable but quite subtle.

Added the Gaia connected via i2S to the Terminator. Wow. This was immediately obvious even with a cheap $15 HDMI cable. The Bryston was connected to the Gaia with AES/EBU. 

Upgraded the i2s cable to a Tubulus Argentus. Subtle difference. 

Then I tried connecting the Roon server directly to the Gaia via USB. I could barely notice the difference with and without the Bryston streamer, so I sold the Bryston. Without the Gaia, the difference between connecting the Roon server directly to the Terminator and using the Bryston was quite noticeable. 

Upgraded my DAC to a Terminator Plus and used the slave clock connections to the Gaia. This was a nice improvement (after a few hundred hours of burn-in), but adding the Gaia to the Terminator was a larger (and way more immediate) improvement.

Bought a Sonore Optical Rendu connected to the optical port on the EtherRegen. This was a more noticeable difference than the Bryston was. 

Upgraded the Sonore to a Signature Rendu SE. Another somewhat subtle improvement. 

Replaced the Roon ROCK and EtherRegen with a SonicTransporter i9 optical connected optically to the Signature Rendu. I didn't notice any difference in sound quality, but the SonicTransporter is faster and allows me to use more DSP functions and support more zones throughout the house without having any drop-outs. 

Of all these changes, adding the Gaia to the Terminator was the most significant improvement, followed closely by upgrading from the Terminator to the Terminator Plus. I spent many times the cost of the Gaia on all the other upgrades (including some cables and power supplies I didn't mention) and the Gaia provided by far the most bang for the buck. 

That said, everything counts and my system sounds considerably better now than it did 2 1/2 years ago.

If you are not a ROON user then what I suggested is pointless. However, for the readers that are ROON users then what I use is rather cheap and maybe hard to surpass.

@johnfritter

your zen mini is a good streamer/endpoint but even in innuos’ line, there are better streamers, with better internal noise management, isolation, clocking... so there is better sound to be had, otherwise who would buy the more pricey innuos models right?... question is, with your current speakers, will you notice that much of a difference? we can’t tell you that...

roon users using a core machine plus optical rendu driving its usb out to dac is very very hard to beat, but there are others ways to skin the cat -- none are cheap, many require a number of small boxes and power supplies... gets to be spaghetti time in a hurry

i had gaia into pontus, i did not hear a significant difference in sq from using coax spdif into pontus, but then again i wasn’t using a noisy everyday multi use computer to feed the stream

my sense was, pontus + gaia was $3 grand -- could do better with other gear...the pontus is nice as a 1500 dollar dac... there are notably better in the 3 grand range

@yyzsantabarbara I agree with you. Long ago I compared an overbuilt mini PC to my since sold, Innuos Zenith Mk3 with PhoenixUSB. The comparison involved running Roon core. The overbuilt fanless miniPC (since then, an Intel NUC running ROCK) beat the Zenith Mk3 hands down for stability, no crashes of Roon Remote, DSP and SQ. The differences were not subtle. Sold my InnuOS gear and saves thousands. My fanless (Intel NUC) MiniPC cost me around $1000 to build from parts from Amazon. Never looked back. I do have a high quality ethernet cable running from the NUC to an audiophile ethernet switch, as I did with my InnuOS gear, butIMO from my experience, and YMMV, these Roon Core server vendors are the emperor without clothes.