Should a reference speaker be neutral, or just great sounding?

The biggest mistake people can make with hifi is spending money while having no reference to determine what it is they are trying to accomplish sound wise.

The second biggest mistake is thinking all recordings should sound a particular way. That will never happen. All recordings are different.

The third biggest mistake is not considering how well specific components will integrate as a system, including the room. That is what specifications are for. To provide a guide for making decisions based on more than just opinions, speculation or hype.

@tim_p,

Ditto!

Erik, "reference" is just a marketing term. Marketing should mean absolutely nothing to everyone. 
With enough experience and technical information, along with knowing what one likes to listen to, you can evaluate a speaker based on it's design and specification. If it rings all the right bells then a good listen is in order. There is no place in this country I would not fly to to hear a speaker I was going to pay more than 20 grand for, less if the dealer was say within a 250 mile range.

Good point, Eric....getting lost in the semantics is but one lurch towards commentary chaos....+1

Mho.....(among others.....*G*)

Neutral > If I was to run a tone sweep through Spkr A, the trace on the waterfall RTA will match up to what my equipment (calibrated mic, all that..) will depict as close as possible, given as silent a test space as possible.  Any gross deviations become obvious...

Reference > As previously noted here, usually applied as 'hype' for the new 'type' of Spkr Z.  Unless one applies the previous routine to Z with favorable results, it just calls attention to Company Z's new 'high water mark' for their offerings.....

Now....I don't have any real favorites with regards to any particular brand or mfr.  I've heard/listened to various 'n sundry in v. 'n s. situations, locations; some have strengths, others with weaknesses, and then the ones you walk right by for whatever reason/rationale.

It's all subjective in the end....what fills your ears in 'That' way....and can be rationally afforded in whatever matter/means.

A personal observation that y'all can either have a laugh/jeer/contemplation over....

I'm 'away' from my personal space periodically.  This can be for a week; sometimes a month or three.  I have in that interval just the memory of that which I've left behind.

The longer the interval, the more my speakers may sound 'alien' to my ears, a certain familiarity has lapsed to varying degrees...

It may take a day or two to 'recover/revive' that acknowledgement of 'OK, nothing's the matter or wrong.....it's just Me.'

The psyc of sound, if you will. *G*  Anyone else have this experience?

A neutral speaker can still be sluggish or intransparent. ‘Great sound’ encompasses lots of things, especially the owners preferences.
A truly reference speaker in my mind should have neutrality, speed and transparency to properly sound stage, image note decay and allow for tuning through positioning. In my experience neutrality, speed and transparency are vectors on which people in comparisons tend to agree.

If you set up Magneplaners correctly, they reproduce what you send them.

If that is your idea of "reference" then so be it.

Try playing a musical instrument live--a piano, possibly, as they are somewhat difficult to record--and then play the recorded version.

If you don't hear any difference, either your ears are not trained or you have a pretty good system, I would say.

That's what Maggies do if your system is not weak in some area.

Try it and see for yourself, of course.  Don't take anyone's word for anything.

Cheers!

I’m going to make a similar comment to NoNoise, all speakers are a compromise, none are perfect. Whichever speaker sounds best to you is dependant on which compromises you’re willing to accept and how much you’re willing to pay in return (accepting that price is a compromise in itself)...

No reason to go for neutrality if you hate the sound. Rock and Techno/electronic stuff? Have at it. Whatever sounds best.
But if you're into anything acoustic or vocal, neutrality is essential.

Of course, we may disagree on the meaning of "neutral." But we will always make the best choice if the LIVE PERFORMANCE is our "reference" and not some imagined sound.

"neutral" is one of those fraught terms in audio--people are always slamming other over the head with it, claiming that this or that product sounds more "neutral."  "Neutral" does nothing because it's essentially meaningless, too open to interpretation.

Early on in my audio journey I decided the only meaningful comparison to audio gear (besides other audio gear/by contrast) was real live music, electric or acoustic, played in a known space. Audio gear that sounds "musical" (ie, like real music) wins out with me. Is this subjective? Hell, yes. But is it meaningful? Yes.

And "reference" to me connotes audio gear that takes audio reproduction even higher, with better qualities recognized & sought in audio (ie, dynamics, bass, detail/resolution, etc). I have some inexpensive, not-very-refined gear that makes music all day long, but is clearly outclassed by bigger/better gear that also makes music, albeit on a higher plane of attainment. 

djones5108-09-2020 8:51pmWasn’t it Harman that did a lot of speaker tests where the speakers with the flattest response were picked as the best sounding? No matter if it was professional listeners or Joe off the street.

Yes. They can predict with 86% confidence that people will pick the flattest speakers as the best sounding. And if you take bass out of the equation, that goes up to 99%.

Paper: A SCIENTIFIC BASIS FOR CHOOSING LOUDSPEAKERS AND HEADPHONES FOR RECORDING AND BROADCAST (page 2)

I've heard many monitor speakers in studios and do not think they would sound good for long term listening in my music room.  
@michaelgreenaudio   I intend to purchase Von Schweikert VR9SE II which have maximum adjustability using highest quality components to alter the sound of each driver to match the room modes, despite having a great engineered room.  My current speakers adjust bass alignment and mids/highs downward only.  Flat is the best for that speaker in my room.  The rear tweeter adjustment is probably the most important for me to control the ambiance level from the rear of a box speaker.   Previously, from 20 to 35 years ago, I had non-adjustable electrostats.  Didn't work out well in my lesser listening environments.  

My Reference is whatever I can afford. In my case it was a pair of Martin Logan Spire speaker’s. I’m happy with my choice. I wish you such happiness in yours.