Thanks edwyun for that incredibly helpful description of how to setup the VPI anti skate! Much appreciated!
stereo5 and tablejockey: Thank you for your responses. I have been reading posts by Harry at VPI, and articles/videos by Lederman at Soundsmith. It seems that both are in somewhat agreement that anti-skate is not so important for sound quality. I really liked Lederman's discussion of why the high decibel anti-skate tracks on test records like my HiFi News greatly exaggerate the sonic effects of anti-skate. It seems that Lederman's primary motivation for using anti-skate is to minimize asymmetrical wear on record grooves and styli.
tablejockey, I like your philosophy: give a little anti-skate compensation, not too much, then stop worrying about it and enjoy the music!
Thanks everyone!
Cheers,
TMQ
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VPI anti skate.....don't bother per VPI(HW)
You absolutely need A/S per Soundsmith.
You can drive yourself mad worrying which suggestion is correct.
I can't hear a difference either way on my Classic. I've gone periods with and without.
Following SS advice, you will have to use considerable weight to slow the arm down at the run out groove. Those little orings are too light.
The VPI setup is low tech. No AS is perfect anyway. It needs to be a live system monitoring and correcting itself as a record plays.
That said, I use a compromise setting of about 1.5 grams. Doesn't appear to slow the arm down, but it's something to slow down the uneven stylus wear?
Enjoy the music, at least it's not affected by what's going on now. |
If you need to use the VPI anti-skate device (depends on the arm and cart, IME), the easiest way to set it is with the Peter Lederman method as previously mentioned. Using an LP with a wide lead-out groove or a grooveless LP helps with this. Then make sure that (1) when the tonearm is at the lead-in groove, the 2 arms of the anti-skate device are pointing at 9:30 o’clock as you look from the front of the TT, and (2) when the tonearm is at the lead-out grove, the 2 arms of the anti-skate device are pointing at 11:45 o’clock (where there is the maximum anti-skating force being exerted). From my measurements, this results in minimizing distortion, especially any large differences in distortion as between the L and R channels (which is what you are trying to achieve). Of course, the fishing line should be as close to the center/fulcrum of the anti-skate device as possible, and connected with 1 or 2 doughnuts to the arm that has the edges on it.
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VPI does not believe in anti skate. The reason they give you the fishing line gizmo is because people expected it to come with one. This is straight from Harry of VPI in their turntable forum. |
thanks stringreen. Would you mind posting a photo or even a super short video for how you have your anti-skate mechanism setup?
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I use 2 donuts on the outrigger with the others on the top....slide them close to the pivot and I'm good to go...it just adds a bit of compensation, though I can't hear a difference with/without it. I twist the whole assembly on its attachment to the tonearm so that it's travel is the same with the arm in the leadin or leadout grooves.
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Other than being able to do it without a grooveless record? Its not.
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Thanks Everyone for your responses.
How is the "Lederman Method" different from using a grooveless record? |
I don't have that arm, and can't find good enough pictures to figure it out exactly. What I can see the line comes off the back end of the arm and goes over a pulley, probably to a weight. The only way of adjusting something like this will be to change the weight, or the attachment point on the arm. Which looks to be fixed. So its the weight. Do they have different weights?
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I agree with millercarbon here. Use the Peter Lederman method. Find a record that has a long wide leadout which as you know is at the innermost part of the record near the label. Drop the stylus in between two widely spaced lead out grooves. You want the stylus to slowly make it's way to the outer groove-the groove closer to the label. Don't expect this too take very long-the outer groove is by nature going to catch the stylus within one rotation.
I believe that degree of overhang and antiskate are two overemphasized adjustments, particularly overhang. Get everything else right-SRA, VTA, VTF, and azimuth and get the loading right for your MC and you will be fine. It is fairly alarming to think about all the folks who sweated over so many other details and did not experiment with proper loading. Too much loading will make a MC sound dull and too little loading will make a MC sound loose and bloated. How can anyone deal with a phono stage that requires disassembly and/or DIP switches/resistors to set loading?
I had someone reach out to me yesterday about his SME 3009 and perceived distortion with a Hana cartridge. There is just no way to remotely judge what the source might be. |
Hey MillerCarbon,
Thank you for your response! I have watched Ledermann's videos on anti-skate and they make a ton of sense. It is interesting to consider that if you adjust your anti-skate force to compensate for very high decibel levels on test records like the HiFI News, then you are almost certainly overcompensating for the majority of your music.
With that being said, I would like to understand the "proper" way to use the VPI anti-skate mechanism, with full understanding and appreciation that it is all about compromise. It would be great to see a video showing proper and improper ways of using this mechanism. From my perspective, the VPI mechanism is incredibly annoying. I don't consider myself to be an old fart yet, but my eyesight is not what it used to be, and tying a loop in that fishing string that won't slip is almost impossible for me.
Cheers,
TMQ
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You're doing it correctly. You're right. It is an utter joke. Not that it matters....
My Origin Live Conqueror uses a similar fishing line with weight. First I would not be terribly concerned about the test record. Its telling you there's not enough anti-skate but if you listen to Peter Ledermann explain about those test records you will understand why this needn't be such a great concern.
The way to improve the fishing line setup is with a wheel. OL did this on their later arms, the line goes over a wheel which turns more freely and results in a more consistent force.
But again, if you listen to Ledermann its clear that anti-skate is a static compromise fix of a dynamic problem. As with so many other things about turntable setup. The correct amount of anti-skate varies constantly depending on the amount of groove modulation. But nobody makes dynamic anti-skate. Instead we use something reasonably close and get on with our lives.
Well, that's what I do anyway....
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