Schiit Freya plus. Is this an upgrade?

I'm thinking about getting the Freya+ and diving into the world of tube pre-amplification. It's been interesting following all the tube and tube rolling threads. Have many of you tested the Freya+? I contacted Schiit, and they noted that they swapped out the tubes for the Freya+ now for JJ 6sn7. Schiit directly notes that "found these to be better performing than the Tung Sol or Sylvania tubes we were using before in every way." After reading all the tube rolling around Tung Sols, I'm curious if you guys have tested this, and agree that the JJ are just better than the Tung Sols, and other available options? No need to upgrade now over the stock JJ 6sn7? thanks!

i believe the Tung Sol is a reissued tube from Chinese origin... not that this makes it a bad tube, but not an original 6SN7 which is a beautiful thing ion the right circuit. I hope the current 6SN7 that Schitt sources is great as I will probably go the same route with the Freya +... by the way, I used some Tung Sol brown base EL34 tubes before and they are the stuff... mostly as they offer up a stout sound and last a long time...

The new Tung Sols are Russian from New Sensor.

Still very happy with unit. No problems whatsoever.

Liked the SQ from tube mode the most with my F5(DIY) and oppo205. Just to add, the speakers are tekton DI's which are driven very well, particularly on the low end, by the F5.

The JFET came in handy during the record breaking summer heat, also streaming from bluesound node.

Have not had the urge to tube roll. In fact may be done with searching for the ultimate SQ. Although am planning on dabbling with an Aleph J in the near future;-)

Did your Freya + come with JJ 6SN7s? My curiosity about those tubes has driven me to order a couple of 'em as I can also use them in my single ended power amp...my tube pile keeps increasing and I like it!

Tung Sol
GTB
brown base

Well the Freya+ is certainly an upgrade over the OG Saga, no doubt about that!  I've only had it a couple of days, but even out of the box it's more dynamic with a bigger soundstage and seemingly better detail.  

This is my first go at a tube based pre, the Saga had one tube as a buffer only.  When I first got it the jfet buffer mode was a little quieter than the volume pot only mode.  But on day two the db difference between the two disappeared, and I suspect as it burns in things will improve further.

The tubes were also making some slight noise with no music playing occasionally.  I powered down and removed them, and found I hadn't inserted them fully.  I also used some deoxit on the pins just in case.  Upon full insert they've been dead silent since.  And what a jaw dropping SQ.  It's a new level of "in the room live performance" for me.  

I can see why they keep selling out on the Schiit page.

I posted this elsewhere  and repeating myself   FWIW -- I stay away from JJ tubes based on my experience with them and there are many links online about the quality of this brand.   In all fairness considering there are those here using them  with no issues its entirely possible that quality control has improved over the last few years or so and maybe more digging would confirm that. 

  I bought a quad of JJ power tubes more than  a few years back and was having noise issues in the vintage Sherwood integrated I had and sent the amp to a tech I have used over the last 10 yrs or so.   He said the only problem with the amp was the tubes.   the new JJ's.    During this period there seemed to be more than  an usual amount of complaining about JJ tubes. 

Im still on the fence on going for the plus.    If there was just a tape monitor on there that would be a game changer possibly.    In the meantime its beneficial to hear what others are experiencing with the  Plus.    

from what I have read, all the new production tubes come from just two locations - one in China and one in Russia. Only the brand name changes....

Current info shows JJ (Jan Jorgo) as being made in Slovakia purportedly with previously owned Tesla equipment.
Tungsol made be New Sensor (Mike Matthews) owned by an American and produced in Saratov, Russia. Sovtek made there as well. Not up to researching more at the moment but there are possibly other smaller companies that are making tubes. TJ  Full Music  If info currently applies has their own factory which is  a separate entity from the big players in China.

IMHO, if you’re going to warn people away from a specific brand tube based on your experience, 4+ years ago is not recent enough to go on.

Placed an order for a Freya S a couple of days ago and looking forward to receiving it

The amp in our main system died and I will be using my trusty old NAD 320BEE with the Freya S. I can’t wait to try the volume control; From the pics out there it looks sweet.

I would appreciate any more listening impressions/observations from Freya S owners. TIA

Cheers,

Scott

Sorry samac, I can’t offer any Freya S impressions, but I’ve been trying to find the specs of the old Freya and compare them with the Freya +. I found them, and a few specs stood out for me, while others were pretty much the same.

With jfet buffer stage:

OG Freya vs +: SNR 110db A weighted vs 120db A weighted


With tube stage:

OG vs +: SNR 100db A weighted vs 115 A weighted


Also, the crosstalk spec is really notable:

OG vs +: >75db vs 85 db, both from 20 - 20kHz

IMHO, 10 to 15db differences are going to be REALLY detectable by ear. The crosstalk numbers are more of an indication of better isolation from channel to channel, perhaps an indication that the Freya + is built to a higher standard or spec than the OG. Which would kind of make sense since it’s $200 more, or around a 28% price increase.

I never had the OG Freya, but the old Saga as mentioned above. The Freya+ has been a revelation. It’s so far above my old mid fi gear(Nad C375BEE, Parasound P5 and Adcom 555SE), and substantially cheaper!  They have probably really shaken up the industry.

I’m glad you’re enjoying your Freya +, 213running. My Freya S is scheduled for Friday delivery. 
What amp are you running with the Freya +?
Cheers,

Scott

The Vidar, also from Schiit.  It too was an audibly improved model over my mid fi stuff, though not as dramatic.  With amps, I think it’s easier to design a decent sounding performer.

@213runnin 
thanks for those performance specs. i am looking hard at this Freya+ although a ChiFi model is alot easier on my finances right now...   

Well, everyone has a budget, and has decisions to make.  That's why I'm so enthusiastic about Schiit, the sound is pretty much amazing for what you pay.  I'd suggest if the Freya+ is too steep for you, look at the Freya S.  It has the same impressive specs, but no tube stage. 

I wish people wd stop slating JJ tubes based on forum stuff from 10 yrs ago. I use JJ KT88 in a SET and 5751 in a pre w no problems.
The SET has been totally abused by the wife, switching off then on, unplugging stuff causing terrible noises etc. Tubes still work fine

Rrebello, are you sure it's better than the Cj 3se? I own one and now you got me thinking of trying that piece of schit!😊

Have had a Freya S in my system for about 5 days nowIt took a while to break in  I needed to limit the output of my DAC to 2v single endedNeeded to use shorting caps on all unused inputs to prevent irritating rf Superb for $700 will compare it to Spectrals 30SV next week

@mach1acoustics,

I've had my Freya S for three days now. I am enjoying it. I look forward to your comparison to the Spectral.

Cheers,

Scott

My Freya + arrived and man am I impressed. Quad Matched Tung Sols. Running Fully Loaded Odyssey amp to a set of Maggie 1.7 After 5 hours I don’t want to cut it off. Thankful for an empty house. I have read many posts claiming excellent synergy with a tube preamp, a/b amp and maggies. The difference is night and day with the Schiit in the line. Mind Blown. They did not lie. I use my DAC attenuation and leave the Freya+ open.

Yeah, the Freya+ is for real, nice to hear impressions from another new owner.  Nice system btw, Maggies and the Oddyssey amp.  With the Freya's state of the art volume control, it might be worth it to try running the DAC at full volume and use the Freya's.

I think word is getting out, the Freya is sold out and on back order.

213Runnin,
    Good point. I only use one source, my Dac. It has 99 step .5db linear volume control with only one resistor in the signal path at any setting. (NuPrime Dac10)
  I don't know how the Freya+ Volume control is designed.  Didn't see any detail on the website or in the manual...maybe someone else knows?

@phcollie,

I thought all new Freya+ units were being delivered with JJ tubes.  Have they gone back to Tung Sol, or did you just buy a quad?  If you did, did you compare and can you describe the difference between the two brands?  Thanks.

On the Freya volume, there is a small explanation on the webpage about the relay switched stepped attenuator volume control.  128 steps, but I’m not sure how many dB per step.

 It sounds like much the same design as what’d in your dac, except with resistors.  It probably won’t make a difference which volume you employ.

melm,

    You are correct, The unit arrived with a set of JJ tubes but I already had a set of quad Tung Sols before I purchased the unit as I had decided on finding a tube pre-amp.  Perhaps this weekend I will have time to compare.  

is the Freya+ a better unit than this lite audio ls60?

http://www.china-hifi-audios.com/en/preamplifier-c-34/lite-ls60-tube-preamp-full-balanced-xlr-preamp...

The Freya+ is a great sounding preamp; perhaps that's the bottom line, But it is built to a price. I like mine, but here's what I dislike about it:
-Factory change to JJ tubes is cost saving measure compared to original Tung Sols. The TSs were given great credit in reviews for the excellent Freya+ SQ out of the box. I tried but no longer use the JJs in the tube gain positions.
-Poor user interface. Change from the direct remote control of attenuator to a motorized volume control together with same cheap membrane remote provides less control. There is a lag and it's too easy to over- and under-shoot desired volume. Sometimes a real PITA. Sometimes a slight stutter in sound while adjusting. Slightly better results with a learning remote.
-Very poor (virtually no) visual indication of the 128 steps of volume level. It needs an led indication. 
-No balance control.
-No tape out.
-Gets very hot when in use with tubes. The heat is not from the tubes, which are external. Raises issues of capacitor life.
-Case cannot be opened, not even to change a fuse.

If I could change one thing, I would want the lights to be cyan instead of white to match the rest of my system and to keep the glare down in the evening. I only use the remote to shift out of tube mode, otherwise it stays on 24.7  
Things I do like:
Low Noise Floor. Its quiet. I don't hear any white noise.
Shift from Tube mode cuts tubes offline.
Balanced Inputs.
Auto Delay on the Tubes, I'm impatient sometimes and would jump the gun.
Not having to open the box and pull the unit out to roll tubes.
Cost IMHO is below what you get.
Lastly, it makes me enjoy my music more. I spend more time listening.

I just ordered this week a freya S from amazon  . they ship direct from schitt . they said 5 left after I ordered.  now there are none. 

mine is on its way. hope its what I needed cause I was going to order in a month or so until I read they freya S was not going to be made any more after stock was sold. 

The Schiit Audio site still has them in stock, apparently, while the Freya+ is listed as in backorder status.  

Things I like about the Freya+ is the jaw dropping audio quality.

True balanced design for my Gungnir

The volume knob tracking with the remote 

The 3 modes of operation is a stroke of genius

The looks are really something, no screws on the top plate.

I'm considering the Freya+ to replace my Onkyo P-3000R preamp. The main reason is the Onkyo doesn't have balanced outputs. ATC that makes my amplifier highly recommends using balanced whenever possible. I emailed Schiit and they responded quickly saying the balanced should only be used for monoblocks and that I should use single ended. I'm sure they know what they are talking about but I'm just wondering if any of you can explain why this would be. In other words why I shouldn't use the balanced outputs of the Freya+ into my amp. Just trying to educate myself on preamp/amp compatibility regardless of which brand I use

I think they say this because you HAVE to have mono blocks in order to use balanced with THEIR amps. Vidar and Aiger only have one XLR input.

I use Balanced with my Bryston 4B3 with zero problems. Not sure where this is coming from. Running the Freya Plus for 1.5 Years