Sakura Systems OTA Cable Kit

No, Gaincard doesn't have to be used with 4708 OTA Cable kit. I think this became obvious for everyone glancing through numerous reviews where reviewers wouldn't use it even if strongly suggested as a far better solution from what they've been using.

What you have to take care about when using other cables is:
- you can't have bannana speaker connectors connected to gaincard's output terminals. Spades are ok, although some of those monster spades tend to ask for a wider head screw as replacement for the stock ones.
- female RCA connectors on all of 47Labs gear are gentle. As with other gentle things in life, you don't treat them with a brute force. overtightening of the macho-type male connectors may damage chasis RCA connectors. btw, they are made that way on purpose.
- very thick and heavy cables can affect mechanical properties of the Gaincard (and they are important for the sound!)

I can see no reason for having S version connected with Coincident speakers. What I would do, if I were you is to go back and have a listen of:

a) 25w Gaincard and two 25w Power Humpty
b) 25w Gaincard and ONE 50w Power Humpty

You may end up with a better result and some money left in your pocket.

As a starting point, my advice would be to stick to 4708 OTA Kit and only after growing up with Gaincard for a while to investigate other cable options. Or, alternatively, just keep the cables you have (unless they are really completely incompatible ones) and look for new cables after a few months. By no mean it is carved in stone that everyone must use 47Labs cables. Some of us just like them.

Best regards,
Sead

I think you should try the OTA speaker cables with the Gaincard. Very soon they will tell you the truth: every, I mean EVERY other speaker cable manipulates with music.
Than, you could try the OTA cables as IC's....

Hi Ivo,

I thought you went for vacation?
Funny, we live like two blocks away from each other and we meet here. :-))
My point was that Gaincard will work with other cables as well. Possibility is that most of these cables may do injustice to it but I have no problem with that, as long as Gaincard is not accused for revealing some nastiness in the rest of the setup (and funny how people easily jump on accusing Gaincard - if revealing is the crime, yeah, let someone bring the rope, the bastard amp must hang! Dunno, must be something in the size of it... and they say size doesn't matter... hmm.)
Now, having lots of people using OTA these days in non-47Labs setups, it is kind of unusual to look for something else for Gaincard. Still, we both remember well that you were not unhappy initially using Yamamura as IC with Gaincard and that it took me quite some time until I had you let 47 cable properly burn in and realise its full potential as IC.

Best,
Sead

p.s. One of my former dealers used to hold a weight on Gaincard, claiming it sounded better taht way. I really couldn't do anything about it.... except to take him off the dealers list. :-)

Hi Sead,

I'm still here. You know, my system sounds so good these days so I can't leave...
Yes, I was so happy with the Yammamuras as ICs with my Gaincard. I agree with you that Gaincard sounds very good with other cables but, as you know, its full potential is given only with the Storatos. It's the same with the whole 47 Laboratory system, including digital cables and, what I consider as the essential point, power cords. Considering that OTA cables are so affordable (comparing to the all mega-bucks, thick, heavy, stupid full-of-all-kind-of-coloration cables) it's logical to supply them with the Gaincard and with other 47 Lab equipment.
I've recently heard Storatos as a ICs in my friend's non-47 Laboratory system and I was amazed of how much improvement they brought.

Regards,

Ivo

Thanks Sead,

I just received a van den Hul 90 degree phono plug and I'm going to rewire the 3 feet between the arm base and phono stage. I wonder if I can gently crimp the sockets internally so that I don't have to use solder ? It's worth a shot.

You have an astonishing product in this cable. This must be the closest thing to connecting components with air. Have you considered making condoms ?

Keep up the great work.

Mark

Mark,

Gentle crimping isn't usually a good idea. Unless you can make a really good crimping connection, you better solder (and this comes from someone who hates solder). Good pressure is needed to keep the air off the contact.

Thank you for your kind words. Making condoms? That certainly is an idea to consider :-)))

Best,
Sead

Sead, Thanks for your thoughts regarding the Gaincard powering the Coincident, Super Eclipses. The reason I auditioned the "S" (50 watt) version is that I have a room (16' X 25' carpeted) that seems to damp things down, and I end up requiring more power. My experience with lower-powered amps and the "Supers" has been somewhat different than many others'--including the speaker manufacturer's.

The music needs to have a physical presence. I don't mean increased SPL's and thunderous bass, per se, but a kind of tactile there-ness that does not come through with small amps even on the Supers. Too often, lesser-powered amps seem to accentuate the visual, the shell of the thing in the recording that makes the music rather than the kinesthetic, lending a feeling of solidity to the thing. Sort of like shimmering ghosts on the stage instead of flesh and blood.

The recommended Manley Reference, 300B Retro mono amps were woefully underpowered for my room and music taste (large orchestral) IMO. I did not mention this in my original post to this thread, but the Gaincard-S clipped something terrible. Somehow, I doubt the 25-watt version would be the right approach given my experience so far.

I have settled on the Cary SLAM-100's with their 95 watts in triode mode. (They can be switched to 165 watts in ultralinear, but they don't sound as complete in that mode.) I heard the Atma-Sphere M-60's on the Supers and could not live with their lightweight presentation. I even found the A-S MA-1 MkII's to require some room reinforcement to bring out the same kind of weight in the bass that the Cary SLAM-100's bring. While the MA-1's are indeed fabulously transparent, extended, life-like, etc., they too seem to struggle a bit in my room. Perhaps with tube- and cabling adjustments, I could have drawn more from the MA-1's. For now, the Cary SLAM-100's are just about right.

Either I was shipped the 4-Ohm version instead of the 14-Ohm version of the Supers or my room, music- and listening-mode tastes just don't allow for the kind of amps most people pair with them.

In case you were wondering, I had my hearing tested. It's quite good. I did not go to lots of loud concerts in my youth. Some other audio-nerds have found my comments about their systems to be mostly valid. Who knows, maybe I AM wired incorrectly.

Thanks Sead,

I will use as small an amount of silver solder as I can possibly dispense.

I have found a new definition of purgatory: Breaking in the OTA cable at the same time as I'm breaking in a pair of Triangle Antal speakers and a Denon 103D cartridge. There are promises of heaven frequently punctuated by the threat
of something less pleasant.

BTW. I can see the commercials for Sakura Condoms "It's the closest thing to air." You could use that for the cable too.

All the best,

Mark

Add another audiogoner to the "lunatic fringe" or set of "disciples" or "purgatory" (all phrases from this forum) of people that has the OTA hooked up and breaking in. Sead (European distributor of 47 Labs, who has countless connections using the OTA already under his belt) made up a pair of OTA ICs for me, and they are breaking-in right now off the main system, between a CD integratred and a STAX headphone tube driver unit, so that I can monitor the OTA electrostatically every so often (no comments about soundstage until later, when I have them on the main system with the speakers). I started the break-in on 29.09.01, so the IC has about 25 hours on it, and what I have heard during this first stage is not too much different from what Redkiwi and Dekay have aleady said with admirable precision about this first OTA plateau: there is an alluring transient quickness to these cables that goes along with a startling immediacy and detail. Harmonically, there is already some exquisite if a little dry bass (open, deep, powerful), but certain mid frequencies are still thin, congested, closed-off (not all mid range frequencies, since guitars are absolutely perfect for some reason), and the highs are a bit vague. I am coming from wide-diameter stranded cables that I have been heavily addicted to for a long time ("garden hose") and the change is rather drastic (Sead said it would be) as well as highly exciting, since I am hearing things in a totally different way now, a way that is hard to put in "audiophile language." Last night I kept on mumbling to myself: it was as if the OTA cable is no longer "listening to the music for me" before I am, but letting it pass through the air to my ears "without the cable listening in." Later, I thought: maybe this cable will turn out to be far less of a "transducer" than other cables, at least that was the hope that took shape. What was instructive was the extraordinary level of pace, rhythm and timing (PRAT) that these single solid cores achieve and that Redkiwi has already glossed so well: all parts of a groove are now happening at the correct time, I can even hear if digital delay settings are slightly incorrect and clash with the main groove. Also surprising to me is the absolutely silent background, allowing me to hear ambient details outside the recording venue (birds chirping outside the window, cars passing outside, etc.)--a "blackground" I thought was only achievable through extremely heavy shielding, not this thin covering. I now think with hindsight that the OTA cable was an integral part of the emotive, vibrant, resolving, natural, direct and forward sound that I heard from the 47 Labs system at High End 2001 (Frankfurt), and that the comments of fellow audiogoners on this forum about OTA break-in will be absolutely prophetic of what I am going to experience through these cables for the next few weeks. Two final comments: 1. Sead related a beautiful anecdote about the OTA cable from the mouth of Junji Kumura (Sead, correct me if I am wrong with the name, since I know you are reading this): standing atop one of the tallest buildings on the "Zeil" in Frankfurt, he said: "You can toss one of our OTA cables off of this look-out point, and it would land on the concrete ground unharmed" ready to be put back into an audio system, but if you tossed one of those big cables off, it would be totally destroyed. Sead summarized the point of Kumura's parable: big cables create their own problems and obstacles. On another theme: 2.) I was crazy enough to flat-out buy a 47 Labs MC PhonoCube and Power Humpty without hearing it with my own ears first, and now have the power transformer warming up.

Just to throw another spanner in the works!

I had more OTA than I needed so I built a set of cables using three lengths pos and three lengths neg on the bass, and two lengths pos and two lengths neg on the panels (of my Martin-Logans) to see what multiple lengths would sound like - and being very careful that all lengths were identical.

Not fully run-in yet, but it is an interesting alternative. I find there is more ease, the sound is perhaps fuller and richer, and no obvious backward step in what the OTA was already good at - but that last observation will have to wait till it is fully run-in. Good as the OTA is, it may be that the multiple lengths will improve things through offering less resistance. But I am mindful of the impact on inductance and capacitance so am routing the cables carefully.

An interesting idea. I had never thought of that. Unfortunately I don't have any cable left over, so I may have to buy more to experiment with multi-wiring.

I did however rewire my turntable pick-up arm withe the OTA cable. The difference is immediate and positive. Bass is much fuller and more extended. Transients are faster and the imaging is almost holographic. I suspect that I will have to endure the same break-in quirks (parts of the picture just plain disappearing from time to time). But I'm confident that at 150 - 180 hours this change will be the most significant yet.

The only problem I have noticed is that there is a slight hum, probably caused by the fact that the OTA cable is unshielded. Perhaps Sead has some tips on how to get rid of it ? Apart form that I'm now completely sold on this puny looking cable. I think that my cable upgrade days are numbered.

Just like to add my experience with Sakura cable. I've obtained the best sound by running the .4 cable on the positive/hot and .6 on the negative/return, both single stranded. Some of you are aware that there are two 47 Labs cables, one that is slightly thicker than the other.

A friend of mine, while in Japan went over to Junji Kimura's (designer/builder of all the 47 Labs gear) house and listened to his setup. While there Mr. Kimura told him that he prefers not to use multiple strands of cable. (Even on his power cords!) Mr. Kimura said that multiple strands break the signal up which affects the "timing relationships" in the music. I'm not sure if this is exactly what he meant because, even though my friend speaks fluent Japanese, true meanings get lost in translations.

Palmnell, I would have fully broken-in the OTA cable before installing it in the turntable pick-up arm. There is an inverse relation between signal voltage and break-in time. With your turntable cartridge outputting signals in the millivolt region (as opposed to the 2 Volt signal from a CD player), you can expect a far longer break-in period for the turntable pick-up cable than 150 - 180 hours.
I still have not taken my first OTA off of the CD player/STAX unit, although it has more than 300 hours on it. First, because I still hear changes in it. Second, because it is the most enjoyable cable I have used with the STAX earspeaker unit. The quick speed of the OTA cable combined with that of the electrostatic driver makes transients flash at a dizzying rate.
I am starting to think that the inspiration behind this cable proceeds from a certain exaggeration (I mean this benignly, and explain myself in what follows): in general, music--and the whole world of high end audio--would be a pitiable excitation without that rapture that dilates sounds until they burst. With OTA I now hear the attacks of instruments clearly and the timing relations perfectly organized. With most other cables, the sounds encroach upon one another, as though none could attain the equivalent of an inner dilation: there is a kind of hernia of sounds in most other cables by comparison to the transcendent rupture in OTA, which miraculously raises recordings to the heart's altitudes as well. At this point, here is the question OTA has raised for me: are not the truths of musical beauty fed on exaggerations, demiurgical divagations of sound? Has electronic minimalism ever been more effectively combined with ecstasy? A tiny cable, the wellspring of tears! such is the enigma of 47 Labs and the secret of musical art. Sonic trifles swollen to the heavens, the improbable, generator of a universe! 47 Labs/Sakura Systems/Konus Audio are geniuses.

Slawney, that's beautiful writing, if I may say so. BTW, another one (me) ready to take the 47 trip -- although I have "officially" put cables behind me... (with a set of modestly priced Bearlabs).

"demiurgical divagations"?? Where the hell is that OED...and the magnifying glass?!

Slawney,

Would that I could have contained my unbridled passion for this cable and waited for the full blooming of its beauty.
Alas, impatience and a licentious desire for detail overcame me and in a moment (actually about 20 minutes) of vinyl weakness I made and installed the arm cables.

I knew that break in would take a lot longer than the IC's and the speaker cables. As you say we are dealing with .28mV
instead of 2 volts. But from the moment I fired up the turntable I knew I had made the right decision.

Compared to the standard Linn Ittok cable the OTA is an aural laxative. Detail floods down those tiny hoses. Sometimes it's too much detail at once, producing an overwhelming and slightly confused picture. I have faith that things will sort themselves out eventually. Although a friend who doesn't fully believe in cable break-in thinks I'm suffering from recto-cranial inversion.

This unchecked "wall of sound" is confirmed on my Stax SR5 phones. It occurs mainly when the source material either contains numerous instruments or doesn't have a well-defined mix. Small jazz ensembles, acoustic music and spaciously mixed records now have almost a holographic presentation and exquisite detail partcularly in distant cymbals. Bass has gained in extension and solidity. There's even more space between instruments. The drum kit on a lot of LP's is now on the patio, six feet behind the speakers.

The ride may be bumpy for the next 200 hours. 1600 hours if your inverse law happens to be correct. I really can't believe it will take that long though. But from the first 15 seconds I was sold again. This cable has what it takes to make me abandon any further search. How do you follow the sound of nothing ?

I am nearly ready to try this stuff...Can anyone draw a comparison between the Sakura OTA and say...Valhalla? NBS Statement? Omega Mikro? AudioNote Kondo?

If so, please share.

Bwhite, I will be able to compare Valhallas -- in about a month's time though! Love to hear others' experience. Mine is a ss or tube-ss (change b/ween the two now) set-up.

Redkiwi,

Can it be that "fuller and richer" is actually "mellower"?
Multiple strands are the negation of the physichal principles 47Labs cables are based upon. Really, we are talking about a "time domain smear" and consequence to that is your initial provisory assessment of the multiple strand arrangement. I could bet that you will realize that it is not the way to have it after a while. But then, I don't mind people buying more cable. :-))))
....Just kidding....

Best,
Sead

Hi Sead

Methinks you are right about it being mellower - but that is not what I heard initially. I have kept quiet while waiting for the break-in to occur. After break-in, the sound of the system was very laid-back using the multiple runs, and failed to get the attack of notes right. Possibly the bass flowed and breathed a bit better, but overall the single run is better.

Bwhite, I will draw a comparison between NBS Statement and OTA for you, but, because of recent changes in my mains, and an entirely new phono stage still breaking in, my observations might only have the value of a "fait divers." These two cables are as different as Evian mineral water and a high-voltage battery. I opt for NBS when I want a "fluid" cable that spreads itself over the signal, and will espouse, not explicate the musical reality. I opt for OTA when I want a "crystalline" cable that can waken me to rhythmic inter-relations, from the bottom to the top of the instrumentation. NBS has its grand accents, but ultimately, compared to OTA, it seems to withdraw from certain risks, dangers, annd even depths; OTA has fervor, allows the listener to experience the fascination of the extremes, and can be dynamite. It can reveal impurities in the recording, and all that makes it curious, but, with its superb timing and speed, it can also teach alot about rhythmic inter-relations (as I already said) even in cases where the interpreter was not able to make these most clear in the performance. I used to think that NBS Statement was the greatest of cables; it reaches so far, gives the musicians so much room to play in, and relays so many subtle distinctions, that the cable swallows me up every time I listen with it. OTA sets me free: it makes me able to understand the music, to diagnose the deliriums which have produced it, to dream of imitating them and exaggerating them myself (I am a musician, you should know). NBS gives a great vision, but OTA is a stimulant. I would say that it sets liseners (and esp. musicians) free from an innate paralysis inherent to the seduction techniques of high-end audio. Sure, there is a juggling act in OTA at times, it makes one think of an acrobat, I love its clown-show at times, but its vitality also derives from an inner tension that it is able to project outward. (Note: For all of the stress I have laid on OTA as a cognitive instrument, please do not mistake this as meaning that the cable is "analytic" in the pejorative sense of that word. This cable also creates a deep, visceral involvement. And, do not think that I have itemized argzuments against NBS, favorable to OTA; the value of both of these cables seems to me to emerge intact. Yes, through its price, OTA does have the ability to call the price of Statement into question. But it is not a situation where, if you cannot afford NBS Statement, you need merely buy OTA, at 1/10th the price or less, because these cables have two completely different characters.)

With your permission, I want to send your comparison review of NBS and Sakura to the Absolute Sound magazine.

As far as Sakura cable, I tried it as speaker cables, and it replaced my Bearlabs Silver Thunder sp cables (although it is a great cable, but not as alive sounding compare to Sakura). But, Sakura as interconnect cables, it could not replace my Bearlabs Silver Lightning. As an interconnect, Sakura became little bit thin, and threadbare sounding.

Even, I cannot use all connected with Bearlabs Silver Lightning ic (the system still sounds little bit thin sounding), so I also use Lindsey Geyer ic with Bearlabs ic, and Sakura speaker cable. Now, my system sounds detail, fast, organic, neutral, sound comes from blacker background, it feels like real musicians playing in my room.

After all, sytem matching is the name of the game in the hi-end. I am done with searching cables (trying to find the right cables since, 1988), and thanks to everyone here in audiogon, other web sites and mags.

Manzoor, thanks for the compliment, and permissions granted; perhaps send the whole "OTA cable kit" thread to TAS.

I have another question, but first... Slawney! Outstanding review/comparison! It was very much appreciated! You are a poet!

Now for the question:

How long does it take to break this stuff in?

From reading through the posts above, it seems that Redkiwi has been experiencing changes in the sound of this cable since June 2001 - we all know it's nearly November. So when does it end?

Bwhite,

My recollection is that the OTA as a speaker cable took some 200-250 hours of play for "burn-in" and that used as IC's perhaps as long as 3-400 hours.In both applications the first 100-150 hours were unusual in that they seemed to completely change in tonality in addition to the typical top end air & smoothness and bottom end definition/extension issues of other cable products.I would describe the final phases of burn-in as "settling in" with greater refinement,ease, solidity and coherency as the basic character of the cables had been fairly well established by that time.
Altho I can't really speak for Redkiwi,it's my impression that what you are reading as prolonged burn-in over many months is actually his reports and reactions to several alternate cable configurations that he has been playing with.

Caterham, I think you're right - Redkiwi was discussing multiple configurations.

So.. 400 hour burn in means about 16 days of constant playing before the cables settle in.

Do you agree with Slawney's assessment of the OTA's?

Bwhite,
Slawney is indeed a poet and I make no pretense of being able to match his lyrical stylings...but yes, I am in perfect agreement as to his assessments of the 47 Laboratory Stratos OTA.
These are a remarkable product and they have challenged most of my preconceptions about cable design.
Firstly, they are possessing of an incredible ability to follow even the most complex passages with speed,separation,articulation,pace and agility.
They capture the subtle emotion bearing nuances of dynamic inflections,both macro and micro, with aplomb.
They have an intense and engaging quality of living,breathing vitality and lucidness that I cannot recall having heard from any cable prior.
Tonally ,I find them hard to qualify,they don't seem to have a *sound* at all.
Mostly, they get out of the way of the music with a superbly natural coherence and otherworldly transparency.
One must consider that they can be fairly ruthless in revealing shortcomings or problems in one's system.
The Stratos OTA's will not gloss over the cracks with turgid,syrupy romance.Like the old saw goes-garbage in, garbage out.
The presentation is a bit more forward than some other cable products,tho not with any degree of pushiness or shortening of staging qualities.
If you have any dryness or aloofness in your setup, it will showcase that deficiency by laying it in your lap like a cold,wet fish.
My other caveat is that the single thin strand of wire is naturally somewhat fragile and the clever plastic terminations are somewhat ideosyncratic in use.
I have an audio related business and use the OTA's in 2 separate systems here and must regularly change out components for audition.I find that I must take a bit more time and care when swapping pieces to ensure the best connections.
Other than that,I have no inclination to audition any other cables again.They're that good.
Best,
Ken Lyon

I have not come across a cable that gets the start, body and decay of musical events so exquisitely right as the OTA cable. It is this kind of immediacy and natural energy that is so obviously present in live music and that yet so few systems come close to emulating. Much as I enjoyed and admire Slawney's post, and thanks Slawney for improving on the attempts here to describe the OTA, the difference (for me) is simple - other cables I have tried seem to swap one "sound" for another, whereas the OTA seems to allow the music to overcome the issues of "sound". I am not saying that the OTA is perfect, but I fear we audiophilanderers are often seduced by the superficial beauty of sound, when what's good for us is to be faithfully wedded to just the music. The OTA is an important step in that direction and one that no other cable I have heard comes close to.

I must apologise for my rambling and roundabout attempts to pin this cable down. I just cannot help playing with it to see what different configurations sound like (and I have tried several that I have not reported on here). And I have probably reported on more dead-ends here than successes, but I am just excited by this cable, and I get an overwhelming need to share my enthusiasm.

As to the burn-in issue, Ken is right, I have been trying different configurations and burning in new cable each time. Now you know I'm crazy.

Slawney, Slawney, my little grasshopper, you have strayed from the fold, failing to perceive "vision" in default to you reptilian brain stem that wants excitement. Hi Slawney, how you doin'? Seriously though, and without commenting on the price differentials (which are not relative, as some would argue), nor to the sound of the Sakura (which I haven't heard)... What I think is being missed here in a NBS Statement (your series 1, right Slawney?)and Sakura comparison (assumably IC's)is the synergy issue between IC's and spkr cable. NBS IC's are superior IMHO to their spkr cable - and many other speaker cables match well to their IC's sans their spkr cables. I look at NBS as an interjector of a certain nuance in harmonic complexity (deep into the harmonic fabric) and spatial realism (at the shallower levels of listening, in how sound waves move in space; symmetrical and continuous and with proper projection qualities) and at the deepest levels existentially (the deep intuitive grasp that the "event" of musical connection between mind and music is not cut by a soundfield that lacks a intuition of dimension). In the most advanced systems, these are the qualities that one is still after and a component that accomplishes it should not be relegated based on an immediate reaction to "speed', "detail", and the thrill of dynamic swing and contrast that are predomonantly appreciated at less deep levels of listening (which doesn't mean that they aren't important, just that they can get in the way if over-emphasized in relative value). What I have recommended to many people is a subtle mix: NBS Statement IC, usually between a tube pre and tube amp and a "faster" spkr cable that is capable of also translating the essense of the NBS IC attributes. Interestingly, in this application I have also ended at a thin conductor for speaker cables: AudioNote Kondo KSL. If I had all-Sakura electronics, then, of course, all Sakura cabling makes sense. But I dont know many audiophiles, including Slawney, who are at that place, or would stay there.

Slawney, from deep below, the "vision" is calling you through the sensitizing veil of the Matrix (its Halloween, you know)...

Caterham1700, Redkiwi: your truths (expressed in verifiable, deduced, measured language) show the precise extent to which I was "overflowing" before. You have my complete respect. Asa: many a Zen master shouts a profound analogy to his disciple when administering a blow of learning. --Why should I relegate NBS Statement (yes, series 1) for OTA? I only have one OTA IC pair right now. Since I have not experienced OTA through the entire system, I still have the hope for a new convulsion. The only 47 Labs electronics I use right now is the PhonoCube (which proceeds from the same sector of the 47 Labs universe as the OTA wire). --To come back to Asa's diagnosis, it is entirely correct. By frequenting NBS Statement for a long time, living a long time in the intimacy of its "harmonic complexity" and "spatial realism," something like a "vision" arose in me. With OTA, by contrast, not so much my inclinations or my tastes as my very blood changed, as if a thrilling stimulant had been injected to alter its course, its density and nature. NBS Statement made me more demanding on the formal level of the mind or spirit (the German "Geist" covers both meanings): NBS Statement has an artistic genius. But OTA intervened in the deepest part of my organism which annexed OTA as it would a vice: Asa calls this the "reptilian brain stem that wants excitement," but I think it was my arteries and veins, and, dare I say, my heart. In OTA's vicinity, my reptilian body, my circulatory system felt fortified. Will my body finally weaken and disintegrate when the OTA Cable Kit arrives from Japan via Bosnia? Will I become a parasite of its poetry? --"OTA, without Thee I am mad, yet with Thee madder still!"--Such would be the result of my contact with this cable.

Thanks, Slawney, I laughed out loud! This thread is a hoot! We should have the scientifically-attached (like the medieval, mythologically-attached before them)dashing out from the woodwork any moment now on some crusade to purge the world of all minds that, heavens forbid, see beyond the rubic, the matrix, of their own ideas (but, does heaven forbid such possiblities? Is objectivism bounded by a closed skeptism towards possibilities, or by an unbounded open-ness towards them, and those in ourselves?).

I'm happy for you, really, but let's see if you sell your Statement to Bwhite. Hmmm, now that would produce a real empiric experiment: trial and error is not only discovered by the discovery, but, also, through the discovery of absense...

You tell him Asa!!! Come on Slawney!! Sell me that baby!
Please??? :)

Red...LOONNGGG- term break-in? How about break-DOWN? I've noticed
the fuzziness of the New York Times to be increasing over several YEARS! Wonder how our ears are doing, huh?
At least I got my literary fix from Slawney today....
Cheers.

It is somewhat strange to consider the sale of my NBS Statements to B white as objective proof of the success of an empirical cable experiment (a poet, empirical?:-), since the crucial thing to bear in mind is that with the NBS Statement AND the 47 labs OTA I have at my disposal TWO possibilities by means of which I am able to radically alter my relationship to music at will. Besides, the Statements are needed on account of the fact that I do not yet have enough OTA to outfit my entire system, and now must make do with an NBS/47 combination, with the OTA now carrying the signal from the PhonoCube to the STAX headphone unit, and the phono cable remaining NBS (before, during the 400 hour break-in, OTA was "performing solo" between a CD integrated and the STAX). Once the OTA kit comes from Japan (and the European 47 Labs distributor called me tonight to reassure me that it is indeed coming, thank you) you will bear witness to the results of far more radical and through-going OTA experiments, "incorporations" of OTA that will thoroughly invalidate the warranties of at least two of my components (Sead can probably guess one of these projects if he reflects back on the schematic of my power amp...). If the OTA fails to live up to its promise, imagine my despair at not being able to hook up my NBS Statements again to make contact with my "other enjoyment" because I sold the Statements to B white who is perversely enjoying them (along with his brand new Audiomeca Mephisto II) thousands of miles away from me in the USA. Nevertheless, I somehow have a hunch that I may want to sell the Statements after the OTA kit arrives (as a matter of fact, I DID sell off some NBS cables here in Germany after OTA arrived, but these were not Statements: just KS, Signature, Master, but still...); consequently, I will make a promise: if, in spite of my love for NBS, the 47 Labs OTA kit renders the NBS superfluous, I will e-mail B white (don't worry, I already have your e-mail address from our previous correspondence) my offer to sell him my Statements (there are 9 of them, but do not hold your breath, because the experiments will take some time ...). For all of you others, this excessive gesture is made out of pragmatic utilarianism to clear away any disruptive, impertinent posts that might upset the very normal, balanced field of exchanges by which we have tried to perfect our understanding of the OTA Cable Kit. To show you how much I want to submit once again to the rationality of facts, a few enquiries: 1.) oxidation on OTA, views? 2.) Caig Pro Contact and OTA? 3.) optimal contact surface area between OTA and the RCA input (reduce or increase, effect on sound, dekay please step in)? 4.) OTA and XLR, balanced format (anybody try it)? 5.) OTA and digital (again, dekay).

Slawney, fantastic reply! I look forward to the day when you offer your Statements up for sale - but agree with you on the virtues of having both. While I am waiting, I will be using OTA myself. The allure of the OTA (and the poetic effects it has on people) is too much to resist. :)

Bry

Slawney, if you're going to do a little cable survey, I would suggest throwing the AudioNote Kondo KSL spkr wires in the mix. I would be interested in your reactions as they, like the OTC, are thin conductor, bare wire approaches. Steve Klein, the US Distributor, is a stand up guy.

Hmmm, do you all think these guys are cryogenically freezing their cables?

Slawney, I would like to add one thing. I get the feeling that you are only using the OTC between the Phono/headphones (headphone amp, assumably) and/or between CD and headphone amp (w/headphones). Its been my experience that the use of cables in these applications is highly variant. For instance, from my TNT/Graham I run a Hovland phono cable and would never use NBS in a phono application, and especially with a head amp and the limited nature of headphones, or at least reach a conclusion in that context. Many times IC's that are stellar performers between source-to-pre-to-amp (the application I have been referring to)simply do not "carry" source signals well. Also, are you listening to the cables through your regular speakers? I am assuming so, because headphones just don't cut it in spatial qualities, the same spatial qialities that the NBS excels at.

Just curious; bounding the parameters, so to speak...

Asa,

The way I see it (forgive me my eventual ignorance that may result from the fact that I am not a native English speaker), you seem to be among the very few in this discussion enslaved by their own matrix, or better yet, the matrix of common mediocre thinking so much overly present in this hobby of ours today. In such case, implying others with some matrixes is.... well, hypocritical.

I know, it is hard to comprehend the logic behind it, it's price tag, it's simplicism and it's sound quality, especially considering the dogmatism of alike. It is perfectly ok and, fortunately, James can afford to have them both. Selling NBS Statement will not prove anything (okie, it would save him some $29.500 in total and would make his room visualy much nicer place to be in but that is not of relevance in this observation as even that would not prove if cable A is better than cable B if such thing as "better" by default exists at all). You may not be aware of it but just comparison of the two proves a lot, at least it does for me.

Best,
Sead

p.s. Do you prefer to value things by their weight or by the price? Or, perhaps by Stereophile rating?
...... I am kidding as I really could not care less which one of those you take as the most relevant criteria. :-))

James,

1.) oxidation on OTA, views?

It does oxidate, of course, at the ends. It is recommended to clean the ends every 4-6 months with either a specialized audiophile product for copper or just the plain baking soda. Some in excess of the cable just cut off the ends and terminate it again but in that case you should anticipate some extra lenght when making it. Baking soda is ok.

2.) Caig Pro Contact and OTA?

Not the gold one. Other one is fine.

3.) optimal contact surface area between OTA and the RCA input (reduce or increase, effect on sound, dekay please step in)?

Two twists are ok.

4.) OTA and XLR, balanced format (anybody try it)?

Haven't tried it.

5.) OTA and digital (again, dekay).

Yummy.

Best,
Sead

the best OTA digital cable that I have come up with in the past three months.

members.aol.com/trstrap/ota.jpg (this is a photo of it, just copy and paste)

I take no credit for this configuration (other than the lazy eight half knots:-) as my direction on this cable came from Richard @ Vantage Audio, but on the other hand if it does not meet your greatest expectations upon wasting many precious feet (and inches) of the OTA, then I take full responsibility as this is my adaptation of the basic principals which were graciously supplied to me. The hot lead is 60" in length and the cold lead is 30". Better yet might be lengths of 80" and 40", but I barely had enough cable left to make up phono cables (a work in progress), so I made them 60/30 which is the bare minimum for this design, I am told. The cable is tunable (per my experience) by changing the number and size of the half knots (along with the spacing of them) on the longer lead. The "loops" that I am using are approx. 2" to 3" in diameter, but these are based on my personal taste and my setup (experimentation is advised when using this cable in other systems as nothing is ever easy). The higher the quantity of "half knots" (loops) and the smaller the diameter the tighter the imaging. The drawback is that with this tighter imaging (which is not unlike that of traditional cable), the more closed in the sound becomes (this closed in sound is also similar to that of traditional cable and defeats the "openness" that is the main purpose of using the OTA cable in my system), thus the "wild" look of the cable. I had almost given up on using the OTA as a digital cable until I tried this design (thank you Richard) as I was never able to surpass the sound of the standard Mapleshade Double Helix digital cable that I used before. I have already tried adapting this design to something that would be generally acceptable in appearance, the longer lead being "tightly" coiled around the shorter lead with a tidy Teflon surround enclosing the two (even tried the same with cotton surrounds/insulation between the cables), but the variations all basically sucked as far as the sound went (I am still using the "ugly duckling" cable as pictured). I started off with leads of equal length and then tried staggering the various leads (one being longer and one being shorter). These cables were OK, but no cigar as they did not best the Mapleshade digital cable. Anyway, this is my best effort, so far, as digital cables go and I am very content with the sound.

As far as "contact area" goes, I have only discussed this in the past with Red, Brulee and Kitch. My take is that the smaller the contact area, the better the sound. Wrapping the OTA around a binding post on the amplifier and/or the speaker has a tendency to muck up the sound from the mid bass down, IMO. Making a small contact area by just threading the wire through the hole in a binding post and then tightening down within reason leaves the sound more open in my setup and enhances bass and mid bass bloom. I have also used the OTA as hookup wire (in a TDS Passive Audiophile and once again in this application "less was more" as the best sound came from almost solderless connections (just enough solder to get the job done, as one would use when soldering to a circuit board).

As far as oxidation goes I have been using Kontak (a generous gift from Brulee) with excellent results on everything in my system, including the OTA. However due to the nature of the OTA contacts I find it necessary to redress the ends of the IC's and speaker cables after they have been taken on and off more than 3-4 times as the wire has a tendency to flatten out. I have also broken 3 of the white center posts on the plastic RCA's to date (mainly due to taking them on and off constantly while experimenting with the cable in IC form) and hopefully this will not be a problem when things settle down. I did purchase another set of the RCA's, but since I have broken so many, I have been forced to make a few hard connections on my setup (which bypass the RCA's altogether). I cannot really hear a difference between the hard connection and the OTA RCA connection, though I had thought that I would. This is the only negative aspect that I find of the product and for those who just install the cable (IC's) only to remove them for periodic cleaning (once or twice a year) I do not see this as being a big deal, though additional RCA's may still come in handy if there is a mishap.

On a whole, I love this stuff and with the guidance of "Palmnell", who posted above, (yes, we are a close knit group:-) I hope to knock off a pair of phono IC's next.

Has anyone tried to use the OTA wire with Eichmann Bullet plugs??

Eichmann website

Bwhite,
When you see the OTA connectors, you'll realise that the principles behind the Bullet plug are taken even further by eliminating the pins completely thru the use of simple but clever plastic pieces which pin the single OTA cable strand directly against the connector without an intermediate pin or solder joins at all.
I don't know which device came first but the only *advantage* of the Bullet over the OTA is that it is applicable to conventional wire configurations & thicknesses rather than dedicated to a specific wire as per the OTA's.

Sead, don't be a horse's ass. If you think my views are overly biased by rigid assumptions, then please, have the guts and cognitive fortitude to cite them specifically.

Second, you seemed to have missed the point between Slawney and I: we are having FUN! I was joking with him about selling the NBS. I enjoy and respect his opinions and writing. Get it?

As I said, objective parameters are not relative (or did your proffered, alleged disclaimer of a lack of language agility, selectively, get in the way on that one?). But that is another subject - we were specifically discussing subjective criteria. I am a writer and do not have all the bucks in the world, but that does not mean that I make arguments that any opinion other than mine on subjective grounds is impliedly invalid because the means of capitalism dictates a certain value in objective terms. That is a disingenuous argument, and I would proffer, symptomatic of your intent.If you want to discuss whether price is a relative issue, then fine, do so, but don't gratuitously mix it in with some unspecified politically-correct morality. Get it?

If you want to have a cogent dialogue, absent vague, melodramatic references, then go ahead. Otherwise, well, you know...

Dear Mark (aka Asa),

I am terribly sorry if I’ve left you with an impression that I have a desire to go into discussion with you because I don’t have any, whatsoever. These days I discuss only with those I find intellectually stimulative and refreshing. Impolite quasi intellectuals and preachers that explode in vanity when touched in their aura as a boring stereotype don’t fit in there, sorry.

Best,
Sead

More names huh, but still no guts. Hmmm...I thought so.

C'mon, guys...lighten up! Asa, your Zorro-like flashes sting others pretty often, eh? And Sead, I know...ya put in a nickel and he keeps keeps crankin', but please...enough!
It's like everhard all over again. Get it?

A warm and happy Thanksgiving break to all of us....

Only when they ask for it, Subaruguru...as you know. How genuine of you to find this discussion and comment.

But, I have a question that I'm really interested in. What is it with these guys who fall onto a discussion from nowhere with holier-than-thou posturing, without anything substantive to add, throwing the emotive-loaded language around in a judgemental manner, and then end it with some type of statement that just (must) reaffirm to us all what a great and compassionate person they are?

Happy Thanksgiving and happy Hannukah and happy Christmas and happy News Years to you too, Subaruguru (the extent of my poetic ability...).

You are right about one thing, though: enough. What you failed to note, however, was that the discussion had ended before you showed up. Which, of course, makes your statements the ones that were unneeded.

I'm going back to the music now...(fade out: cheers from the politically correct crowd).

How to kill a web forum discussion?

1. Ignore the poster who initiated it. Especially if he has a very precise question targeted at a particular group of people. (How does he dare? Who does he think he is? I will teach him some respect. Oh mama, I am soooo kewl).

2. Ignore the warnings of the forum administrators to keep your replies to the subject of the thread. (What does these pathetic creatures know? Are they nuts? I will write what I want when I want. Mama, mama, I am soooo strong)

3. Don’t keep it on the subject. Be creative, impose your own. (You guys know nothing. I will teach you. Boy, am I smart or am I smart)

4. Insult. As much and as often. It will raise your popularity. After all, you are powerful, knowledgeable and …. handsome. (Hey I am a well known and respected member of readers letters column in TAS and Ultimate Audio, not to mention my subscription to Stereophile. I’ve managed to buy out 10% of the magazine circulation, so I have lots of arguments in hardcopy. It was expensive but it was worth it, I can tell you)

5. Troll. Often. After all, administrators will not dare to touch you. You are the untouchable one. (mama, look I am getting the wings)

6. Be democratic – kill anyone who would even consider not agreeing with you. (yes, I am righteous)

7. Treat those you like with passion – approach them in a diminishing manner. Don’t they know they are there because of me? (mama, look at my body – I am a walking sculpture)

8. Lie. Even better if you get it on a personal level. Make promises you have no intention to keep. Show off with powers you don’t possess. That will mask your obvious commercial interests that you have.

9. Tell everyone how smart you are. Some may buy it. The rest will get angry but considering your general powers, you shouldn’t care. (mama, I am sooo good looking)

10. Attack before being attacked. Send threatening e-mails to everyone who would even dare to say a word. (someone’s got to teach you lessons, you…you… you….)

11. If someone asks you something, just anything, ignore him. Tell people about your new flashy preamplifier. (you pathetic loosers will never have my new flashy preamplifier)

12. Numerous aliases come handy when you need someone to support your thoughts. Who could understand you better than yourself? Who loves you more than yourself? So, use many names, the more the better.

13. Use other people’s arguments as your own. Confuse the opponent. Let them think you are stupid. You know you are the smartest thing. Not to mention how handsome you are. You are the babe and don’t let anyone question that.

I've been monitoring the discussion here for a while now, and have also heard a basic 47 Labs digital/amplification system.

Can anyone share their thoughts on the following: How is the Stratos copper cable actually made? Is it aged in any way? Can its inherent qualities be damaged by poor handling, cable-burners and the like, or other environmental factors? Is it a finite source our is it continually manufactured?

Many thanks to all who respond.

jusbe

Hi,

47Labs cable is not aged.

It's performance over time is comparable to other modern high quality cables, meaning that it will last without degradation pretty long but not forever as it is the case even with the cables their manufacturers may claim to be eternal.

Surprisingly for cable of this diameter, with insulation on, it is taking user brutality quite well, although I would not suggest really strong bending. I am telling this from experience as I do abuse it on a regular basis.

Cable burners will not damage it - I use it as mains cable (which doesn't mean that anyone should do the same!). Will cable burner make it sound better than when burned in with a real music signal is another issue.

It is a commercial product and, as such, it is continually produced. Of course, 47Labs can take it out of production if they desire to do so but to my knowledge, there are no plans that they could do something like that.

I've been using this cable for something like 3 years now and, except for the addition of blue translucent color, it has been consistent in production and quality.

On the user side, with exception of the slight fade of that blue color that occurs over time and a minor capilar oxidation close to cable ends, I have not noticed degradation in the performance of 3 years old cable compared to freshly burned in. Of course this period may not be sufficent time for a serious assessment of cable longevity but I hope to be around in years to come and I can report on how things are coming.

Best,
Sead