Rules on Review...

I just read JA's review of the new Thiel 1.6. He had the classist way of saying that he was less than crazy about the speakers. You guys agree? (those of you who've read it, of course) I guess there is a way to write, not a negative, but a less than crazy about, review. It's a gentle thing; and I guess we audiophools know the dif. I suppose that's all that's necessary. Not quite the same review as the, less costly, Revel M20s, back about 6 months ago. Comparably priced (the Revels with stands, of course)- I know which I would buy, or at least lean toward.

Reviews are a way for us to share our discoveries. When a friend stops by, you put on your favorite new CDs and talk about how excited you are about the album. You don't say, here's some stuff that I want to show you is bad; let's spend our time together listening to bad music. The only time you might do that is to show how something you thought would be good disappointed you.

I don't think it is wise to write a review unless one has spent time with the item, and we tend to spend our time on components that we like. If I hear something in a store and find it disagreeable, I'd just move on to something else. I'm not going to spend my time evaluating it or comparing it to other products, much less buy it and live with it to know it inside and out.

I think that magazines seem to print positive reviews because the components they review are good. Companies improve their products over time and utilize the best of what's currently out there. Who would bother to make a $10,000 pair of speakers that was bad? A company won't stay in business long if they make stuff that is poor, and they sure wouldn't submit it to a magazine for review if they didn't think it would fare well. I mean, if you think ad money is buying good reviews, then name me some components that got good reviews that shouldn't have.

Also, think about how you read these magazines. I find myself diving into reviews of the gear that I've heard a good buzz about, so those reviews will generally be positive. Why would I care to read a review of something that I don't think I'm going to like anyway? Over time, your impression becomes that a magazine always prints positive reviews. I have seen many bad reviews in Stereophile. I remember one even flat out saying that the cheaper preamp reviewed in the issue was superior in every way -- guess which component's review I initially bought that issue to read?

As a reader of stereo magazines, I don't necessarily read them looking for good or bad reviews. I read them to find out what they think of the new line of, say, Wilson speakers (do they improve on the older line? etc.). I wouldn't want to read Rolling Stone magazine if they devoted space to bad music. I read it to find out about up-and-coming good stuff.

Silly me. Forget my posts, I thought we were talking about something else. Sorry for the trouble, Jadem6.

Cynics will point their fingers at magazines but come on, does anyone really think they care so little about their own livelihood and credibility that they will write reviews to sell ad space. If a magazine reviews a piece that is not what it is claimed to be the consumer will hear it when they go to the store to buy it. Who cares what magazine got a big ad budget after, or before a review. That is completely off of the point. Magazines will go out of business if they adopt a policy like the ones suggested in earlier comments. Pure selfishness would prevent it. Magazine writers like to eat too. I don't read many of the HiFi mags anymore and when my last subscription to Stereophile expires I will not renew it. I can learn about as much from some of the knowledgeable people on AudiogoN as I can from the rags. The problem is knowing which people to ignore but I'm learning that too.
Another reason for the positive reviews in the mags might be the case that so much of what is available is really pretty good equipment. Whether the reader likes a piece by a company ultimately does not effect the quality of the product. Some stupid people will automatically trash a piece of gear because they don't like the company or their advertising budget but that trashing doesn't change the quality of the equipment it points out the trashers foolishness. I have never owned a CJ piece but I assume they make pretty good stuff since lots of other people like it.
Back to AudiogoN, reveiwers here are not paid for their writing. They paid to be able to write it. The reason for favorable reviews is fairly obvious to the wise: people bought the equipment because they auditioned it and thought it sounded good enough to spend their limited budget. It would be unethical to review something that the author has not spent a significant ammount of time auditioning in their own home. This precludes, for the most part, the possibility of reviews by people who have not invested their cash in the item. It has nothing to do with advertising budgets or magazine articles. Has anyone ever bought a piece of gear based on the quality of an ad??? I doubt it but I must concede it is possible.

Yes, you were clear on your other equipment, but to review a component you have to know how it does with a multiple other components(systems) in addition to comparing it to same-type components, including those that are better than it in certain areas, and in addition to unrecorded sound/music. If not you end up sounding like a child describing his/her xmas present, or S.T. Even some of the revered reviews are just better written, elongated, sugar-coated versions of what posters are complaining about. Everyone is still learning, though, and its not like mine is exactly quality. It will be mildly interesting to see the reviews a year or so from now.

Some reviews are fairly straight forward and provide great insight. If a reviewer is writing about a new CD player and all other components used in the evaluation are the same then I can reference other reviews and begin to form an opinion. So much of the performance of other components has to do with synergy. Power cords and interconnects all have a huge impact on ones impression with the product they are reviewing. This must be difficult to control. Therein lies the problem. At least a retailer has the opportunity to mix and match components from the display models to form their own opinions. Those of us with a single system are at a disadvantage to really compare.

I agree that the rags cater to the big advertisers. I also agree that the Audiogon review format needs improvement but I don't consider myself qualified to make suggestions. I read the Audiogon reviews and glean a few nuggets along the way. I'm writing a review that won't be all compliments and it's taking way more time than I thought it would because I'm being careful to make comparisons of three combinations.

If you are fortunate enough to live in an area with retailers that allow prolonged listening in their stores and encourage in-home auditions with pieces that are burned in then the job is made much easier. You can rely on your ears and focus your research on product reliability, etc. For us in the boondocks the reviews are very helpful even if not perfect.

Ohlala, I'm not sure what your saying. I'm assuming it has to do with the reviews I've written so far are very favorable of the equipment I own. I have tried to be clear regarding equipment I've used that was not as good in my system.

In the future I and others (hopefully all of us) will be reviewing other equipment that is not part of "our" reference systems. I am in the process of evaluating a Cary 300B amp right now. I would be further along except one of the tubes needs replacing. That will be the first of a few less than flattering things I've found when compared to my system.

The intent I had was to first write a review of all my equipment. This is background for future reviews. Audiogon is trying to promote others to do the same so that equipment can be reviewed with no strings attached. I believe we at Audiogon have the oprutunity to be the first "honest" review site using the increadable depth of knowledge we have here. I incourage everyone to particapate.

I hope as this review formatt roles out we will see some less flattering reviews.<<<<

Funny you wrote that.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr_memb.pl?0&1&listrevs&zzJadem6

Thats for sure,there are no bad reviews ,just various degrees of good reviews.
Occasionally you can read between the lines and pick up little bits of info..good or bad ..about a particular product.I continue to read reviews on anything that I buy and still find them very valuable.

How can you rely on your 2 ears when everything now has the
frequently mentioned and also used by dealers/manufacturers as an excuse."BURN IN PERIOD"
I have auditioned many pieces of equipment,in my own home,only to bring it back stating my dislike for it.
The excuse I get..but there is a " BURN IN PERIOD" it will only get better.My answer is and what if it doesn't?
So thats one scenerio that your 2 ears would let you down.
Thats when discussions,like this one, and reviews help.
Also I want to know about,reliability,service,compatibility,
etc before I make any decision.
One piece of equipment I have auditioned ,sounded absolutely fabulous..when it worked.
Because I am very isolated,I depend on reviews and discussions ,for direction as to what equipment is worth auditioning.
Don't get me wrong,your 2 ears are very important in making a decision but whats between those ears is just as important.

I'll exchange my views freely in a thread especially if someone has posted a question. I've posted reviews on AudioReview.com in the past, but I've stopped because overall I feel I don't have enough experience with different gear. The only review I think that was helpful to others was the one I posted for Boltz racks when there wasn't a single one on AudioReview. When I first got bit by "the bug" I was excited to share my impressions of my toys, but now I realize that those reviews may not have been the most helpful to other people.

I think an objective mind and being able to list a lot of gear in the "similar products used" catagory goes a long way. Kind of tough sometimes in this very unobjective hobby.

I must add that I did enjoy Twl's review of the David Berning Co MicroZOTL Tube amp and the follow up discussion. Very good!

Natalie,
I've auditioned Joseph RM33i sigs(about 40min trying to find the music they can play or volumes they're good at but sorry couldn't) in the dealer's room and fairly saying I realy "pooed" on this product and said it only worth some DJ JBL speakers but not more. I can with no doubdt say that Vandys 1C(I can say that I sometimes miss them) which 10x cheaper sound much more pleasant i bet with any suitable electronics.
The same thing I would say(or at least would refuse to say something at all) even to MFG because even if the will ofer me 10k I will not stand saying lies and publishing them; I'd better go to the manufacturer that I realy belive and hear this product is great. In this case before the speaker is realy shown with its price and looks it has to be auditioned ONLY WITH EARS i.e. with eyes tied and with no knowlege about the price. That could be done by contacting an audiofiles to visit the dealer's listening room to audition whatever speaker that costs whatever price with tied eyes and than say honest things about it.

I've even heard more junk such as AudioNote CDT Zero with MSB Link III, OCM amp that my 2 ears(and I'd add a head) did not appreciate. Becides my 2 ears I want to listen to the music as long as possible with no fatigue whatsoever and certainly I would not buy neither CDT Zero nor MSB Link III with all its high-tech 21st century features.

Whatever conserns personal home electronics everyone i believe in all logical sence the equipment that suits the system and overall sounds nice to the owner.

Ttrhp, In that most of us have written reviews of our present systems, I think it will be hard to find any bad. If the reviewer has listed equipment they owned before so for comparision, you might be able to read into it a bit. I hope as this review formatt roles out we will see some less flattering reviews. I am keeping a list of comments to discuss with Audiogon about this very topic, thanks for starting another thread on reviews, I know your comments are worthwhile.

Ttrhp, If you like to read what the consumer has to say, check http://www.audioreview.com/reviewscrx.aspx

Natalie is dead on. It's very hard to believe any reviewing magazine, dependant on advertising, to turn a profit, who will slam potential clients. Also, many of the audio industry's reviewing giants, if you will, are wined, dined, courted and gently loved to death. Do you think they will slam a product by one of these companies? I don't. Infact, you never see a bad review. I'm willing to bet, the only thing they do about a negative review, is to tell them before publication, giving the option to pull it. How come there are certain companies that never get reviewed? Never. Companies that are known to have killer electronics and the like? Very honest, don't you think? Is something rotten here? Consumer Reports is the only one out there that does any type of reviewing right. You read Sam Tellig's outstanding review of MF's new DAC and the next month they have the back cover ad. Very expensive and hard to get. Coincidence? They give the PS Audio 300 and 600 reviews that this product is the next coming. There are more of these babies, for sale, on Audiogon then anything. The power of the press, planting audio greatness seeds, has been going on forever. I read everything anyway, and then I go to my two, most trusted, bright, critical companions for first hand advice: MY TWO EARS. They haven't steered me wrong yet. (and if they ever do. I will forgive them, because I know they didn't do it maliciously or with a hidden agenda.) I have all the confidence in the world, in them, and so should you. Your ears that is. I love mine , and we'll hopefully, be together in good working order, for a long time to come.

their was a bad review in stereophile of the Richard Gray power conditioner by Johnathon Scull

Its Simple. If someone pays you 10K for a full page add are you going to poo on thier gear. No you find a way to tell the story like the MFG who gave you 10K to write nice things about thier overpriced Junk.

The only worthy reviewer are your own 2 EARS.

No, there's no rule like that. It's just that everybody likes their equipment, so they say it is the best stuff around. Just natural I guess. There has been alot of talk about the reviews. I don't know how it will pan out. I suppose we'll just wait and see how it goes.