I'm thinking about upgrading from my Innuos Zen MkIII. Although there's been a lot written here about what sounds best, I've not seen a discussion of what higher end server/streamer/renderer will work properly as a Roon Core as well as a Roon Endpoint. The Roon Labs website is terrible at helping you find an answer to that question.
I'm looking in the $4k - $8k range and am considering the Innuos Zenith MkIII, the Auralic Aries, 432 EVO Aeon, etc. But I'd prefer to have the Roon Core and Roon Endpoint in the same box.
Roon is somewhat glitchy on the Innuos, but running the Innuos in Roon "Experimental Mode" clearly gives me better SQ than Innuos Sense, their proprietary software. The Auralic reportedly sounds better than the Zenith but it doesn't look like it can be a Roon Core. There's little written about the 432 EVO. Don't want to spend the money for a Grimm.
Anyone know of a brand that has great SQ (in that price range) and runs as both Roon Core and Endpoint?
Doug we have several clients who have tested our 432evo aeon vs the Statement and preferred the Aeon,
the Master has been tested vs the Grimm and found to match it and with the masters new bass authority mode to improve upon its sound.
the Evo line has been designed to run Roon flawlessly and are modular and upgradeable this allows for model to model upgrades as well as providing a pathway to improve the servers performance over time as improved parts become available
Hi Doug, I Kept my Roon Core on my Nucleus+, and added an Auralic Aries G2.1
It improved things noticeably, going USB into my Tambaqui DAC. I know you are asking for Core on the Steamer, but I like my Core (Nucleus) in my computer room (office) and the streamer and DAC of course in my listening area.
If you can stretch your budget, consider a +player, all in one box from Merging Technologies. It has it all, Pre/DAC/Roon Core/Renderer. The +player will eliminate the need for Zen Mk III, Schiit Freya pre, Yggdrassil DAC and go direct into your Aegir monoblocks. With +player, you are also stepping up in DAC performance. I bought +player last year in August and couldn’t be any happier. It has replaced my previous setup of EMM Labs DA2 and Aurender N20 ($37K in retail). I waited all these years to venture into Roon until I could find a state-of-the-art Core/renderer + DAC solution. If you’re interested, PM me to learn more about my setup.
Hi Doug, Before I had the Nucleus+ on the network, and the Tambaqui has factory installed internet bridge, so hardwired ethernet to the Tambaqui DAC from my Modem / Switch. Now I have the Aries on the network and USB to the DAC.
Modem > Bonn 8 Silent Angel switch (powered by one output of HDPlex) > Nucleus+ (powered by other rail of HDPlex) Both of these short connections are Supra Cat 8. My Aries is downstairs so hardwired from same switch. BUT I have EtherRegen and Network Acoustics Filter in front of the Aries. Then USB to my Tambaqui DAC, all with Kubala Sosna Power cables and USB. I use the Network acoustics ethernet cables in front and behind the MUON Filter.
Thanks for the kind words! I was looking at a clock very seriously, then pointed my efforts at the Muon Filter System. I am considering a Sean Jacobs Power Supply for my Aries. I also want to borrow the EtherRegen to my upstairs system, and see if I miss it in front of the Muon. Network Acoustics says keep the ER in front of the Muon. Ken
I think you meant to say that you’re considering SJ power supply for EtherRegen. I would definitely play with ER placement before you spent more money on external clock or linear power supply.
@dougthebiker ….did you receive my dealer info via PM?
No, I have talked to EtherRegen and been advised that an upgraded power supply has little impact. I have however heard of huge improvements with modded Power Supply for Aries. BTW a few Amazon heat sinks cools the EtherRegen nicely, stuck on the top.
Well, that’s certainly the first for me. But I know, power supply plays a huge role to a component performance especially if you can isolate it from audio circuitry. My DAC, Server and Ethernet switch, all have external power supplies.
About ER placement, my comment was in reference to @fastfreightpost since he is using his ER with Network Acoustics Muon passive filter. So if you’re only using ER between your router and Innuos then you’re good to go.
I use a Wolf Audio Alpha 3 as both my Roon core and endpoint connected to my Gryphon DAC by USB. Excellent performance and reliability. Replaced a stand alone Roon core connected via ethernet to an Ayre QX-5/20 DAC. Stereophile has published a couple of reviews.
Doug, I am surprised you find Experimental Mode with Roon better than Innuos Sense. As soon as I heard Innuos Sense I stopped using Roon with Experiment Mode.
There is a general opinion that Sense sounds better than Roon. You might download the latest version and give it another go before you move on.
I used my Innuos as a endpoint and ran the Roon server on an Antipodes Core. It worked and sounded better than running both on the Innuos.
I found all the DSP functions in Roon degraded the SQ especially running the core on the Innuos.
I do miss Roon as a database server but not enough to go back.
I’m currently building a Nuc to run the Roon Core on. Will be I interested to see whether the Zen Mk III sounds better as an endpoint.
Definitely liked Experimental mode better than Sense. May just be the synergy with then rest of my system. Sense seemed veiled and lacking some treble to me.
@dougthebikerRoon is designed to sound best with separate server and endpoint/streamer. I'd expect NUC with Zen as endpoint will be superior to what you had previously.
For those running Roon, I've found best sound quality achieved by turning off all dsp, no software control of volume, no volume leveling, track analysis off, every possible processor sapping Roon process OFF.
Hi sns: Your posts are always helpful to me. In regards to ROON, when you say "turn off all DSP" do you mean set everything to the default settings? Jeff
As I try to improve my digital, I come across this dilemma:
HIgh end Server Streamers do just that. Serve and Stream. Even getting clarity on nomenclature is tricky as different manufacturers use different terms.
So many of the new high end devices would replace my Nucleus AND Stream (output usb audio in my world).
I seem to want to keep my Nucleus+ in my computer room and with that on the network, use my Auralic Aries G2.1 Streamer in my audio room. Upgrading my power supply (mod) of the Aries should put it up there...(Look at the new Innuos Statement and the Sean Jacobs power supply option!). Ayway, thoughts on keeping the Music Server separate from the Streamer? I do feel more flexibility with this setup. I use USB into my Tambaqui.
@fastfreight Highest quality streaming is possible with both integrated server/streamer and discreet. Quality of the usb rendering important here. very few integrated server/streamers do this, meaning high dollar expenditure here. Or you can spend less on server, put that money into separate streamer. Depending on components chosen financial outlay may be a wash. Keeping them separate does give one more options, along with more complexity.
With the investment of about $500 and 8 hours of my life, I built a fanless NUC 10 i3 in an Akasa case (a huge heat sink,) installed Roon ROCK Core software and hooked up my ripped CD library (from the Innuos Zen MkIII server) in a 1TB SSD attached to the NUC. (No upscale power supply or network cables.) (It only took 8 hours because of a couple 3-hour rabbit chases due to lack of specificity in Roon's instructions in places.)
Then I switched the Zen into Player (only) mode and WOW! Best SQ I have ever had in my system by a wide margin. Even my wife noticed.
The change I noticed first was the amount of "air" and detail in tracks I had listened to dozens of times, closely followed by more accurate tone in instruments and vocals. It's like I could hear the boundaries of the room where the recording was made. The decay of cymbals lingered much longer. A tenor sax really sounded like a tenor sax.
This was the type of improvement I was expecting from moving up to a better server streamer.
I also tried hooking the NUC via USB (Audioquest Diamond) directly to my Yggy DAC. That was also better than my original arrangement but it didn't have the magic of having the Zen player in the loop. (That could be due to the generic power supply on the NUC.)
@snsis also absolutely correct that the very best SQ comes with turning off the (very handy) volume control, volume leveling, DSP EQ etc., no matter which configuration you run. I had not previously discovered that. Now I have to get used to walking over to my 300B integrated tube amp a lot more frequently to adjust the volume!
I still plan to upgrade the server/streamer, but will probably stick with that magical NUC running Roon ROCK on my network. I should have the new server streamers in to to compare in another month.
Congratulations on finding next level improvement with your existing setup. I believe adding a Linear Power Supply to your NUC should further enhance its performance. It will be a interesting comparison between your new server/streamer with your existing setup, for now just enjoy!
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
