Correction, I am conflating my AMR CD77.1 with the PH77. There is no PH77.1.
review iPhono 2
I must be slow as I could not find a link to place this as a review.
So, I have written about the 1st gen iPhono in the past, comparing it to the very fine Coincident phonostage which I believe is about $6k. I preferred the iPhono but I could just as easily imagine someone else going for the Coincident unit. In that review I thought the Coincident had a better sustain, decay and bloom while the iPhono was hands down the winner in the prat department. The iPhono made my feet move, the Coincident, not so much.
Later on I added the iPower to the fray and the iPhono shored up the areas it lacked. As a former owner of the very very nice Graaf GM70 I was a bit surprised and dismayed when I finally received the iPhono and heard it once fully run-in. I would not have shelled out the thousands of dollars I paid for the GM70 and the vintage NOS tubs I purchased to make it sing, oh and the $1600 I had to spend on the Ortofon ST-80SE SUT to use with the MM inputs of the Graaf as I could not get it quiet enough to tolerate with the MC inputs. The very small $400 iPhono basically did everything the Graaf did (with the iPower that is).
My reference phonostage for the last few years (and probably many more to come) is the fabulous AMR PH77 and I’m running it with a set of Bendix 6900 tubes which elevates its performance even more than the already stellar stock configurations performance. In comparison to my PH77, I found the 1st gen iPhono to be a bit thin and during crescendos it could become a little ragged. Still, it remained in my arsenal as a handy and trusty back-up. The PH77 is of course tubed and as we tube owners know all too well, sometimes they fail and you are down for a while.
Compared to most phonostages I have heard, some of them costing up to $9k I found the 1st gen iPhono to be able to hold its own in some cases crazy as it may sound it was just plain better. I believe AMR intended the iPhono/iTube to be used in conjunction as a sort of baby AMR PH77 and I ran it that way for some time and yes, it does share that familial DNA when it comes to sonic signature.
Move forward some years and I have in my possession the iPhono2 and the iTube 2. To say that the iPhono 2 is better than its predecessor is far too simple a statement. Mr. Fremer thought it to be at least twice as good as the original. I would agree with his assessment. Out of the box with the included iPower is shows far more prowess in the areas of bass but otherwise is pretty close to the original. After about 20 hours a bit more fluidity begins to appear. Again at the 100 and about the 340 hour mark big jumps occur in the areas of fluidity and continuousness. When you get to 480 hours forget about it!
This thing sounds like it has a tube in it, and I don’t mean in that classic overly warm soft rose colored sound that I found so fantastic when I was new to high end audio. No, I am referring to a pellucid but meaty embodiment and rendering of the music. A sound one would immediately associate with MUCH costlier gear.
Most of my listening has been done with my second turntable system which is composed of a Technics SL-1200 GAE with a fully broken in Denon 103R on a LP Zupreme 15 gram headshell and my London Reference. The phono stage then feeds the iCan Pro (best pre I have heard and I have owned 2 MFA Ref units, the baby Ref and the full Ref), the Tube Research Labs GTP 2, and many more. I have had in my system for evaluation the Veloce (battery powered) the Allnic L3000 and many others. From the pre it goes to the custom active crossover and then to a Graaf Modena for the mids, a Harmonix Reimyo PAT777 for the Raal Ribbons and a pair of Acoustic Reality Thaumaturges ($25K when available) for the woofers. The speaker is called the Encore and is my own design. I simply got tired of paying for passive boxes made of MDF with wood screws going directly into the glued wood dust and sold for tens of thousands of dollars but I digress :)
The sound is at once flowing and dynamic. It grabs and holds my attention and really gets my foot tapping. The sound is MUCH more refined and fuller than the original iPhono with no hint of raggedness during large scale bombastic music. For instance it scales far more convincingly on some of the more challenging passages in Hans Zimmers wonderful soundtrack to Gladiator. The original could sound a bit blocky if you take my meaning. It did not have the ability to gracefully scale the mountain so to speak. The iPhono 2 does it with much more ease and refinement.
Here is where it gets interesting. As good as the iPhono 2 is out of the box and it is very very good (and especially after 340 hours or more) in fact far far better than the DS Audio optical cartridge system that I auditioned, it can be made to sound a good deal better. Now this is my own thing, the iFi line of SMPS’s are admittedly super quiet and much better than most SMPS such as the ones inside my apple gear, but I hate them ALL.
I do not like green eggs and.., ahem. Sorry, just flashed back to Dr. Seuss when I thought of my aversion to SMPS’s.
I mean I understand why they are used, efficient, cheaper to ship and inherently regulated. But they still hurt the sound of my system. As an aside I am actually having a custom linear PS built for my SL-1200 GAE to replace the awful SMPS that Technics installed. So to the point, I replaced the iPower with a linear regulated lab grade power supply. I don’t like hyperbole so I offer none but the result was nothing short of breath taking. There is a great deal more that can be had from that little silver box with a good (and I do mean good) linear supply.
Next I added the iTube 2 to the fray. As I mentioned before AMR always sorta intended this combo to be a baby PH77 as was or may still be mentioned on the iFi site. How to put this; everything I have said about the iPhono 2 up to this point; multiply it by 2 times again. Now you have that sorta living presence that the performers are in your vicinity. Things are rounder, more palpable and it breathes much easier. Again I powered the iTube 2 with a linear supply along with the iCan Pro. Please don’t misunderstand me, I lived with these units powered via there very good SMPS’s for quite a while and they made beautiful music BUT I knew there was much more to be had.
Like Mr. Fremer (paraphrased) stated, to get better than the iPhono 2 you are going to have spend much more and you still may not surpass this unit. I auditioned a $16K current phono stage that people rave over and my ears tell me that it cannot compete with iPhono 2/ iTube 2 combination. I will not call this a reference phono stage. It is great and I listen to it daily but I reserve titles like reference for the likes of Ypsilon, VDH Grail SB and my AMR PH77. The little combo does far more than I could have imagined. It capable of truly astounding musical reproduction on a grand scale.
Remember to let it run in for at least 100 (and I suggest 300) hours before you really start to judge it but my guess is it won’t take most people that long to know that this is special gear designed by some super gifted engineers who also happen to actually be able to HEAR. Thanks for reading and I hope this helps someone make a decision one way or the other. Happy listening.
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Interesting point about the attenuation of the output signal to get .5mv output, but just to be absolutely clear, I was talking about recording the signal coming straight from the turntable, before it ever gets to the phono preamp, so shouldn't that record a very quiet RIAA signal? My intent would be to capture the exact RIAA signal coming straight from the turntable, then play it with an mp3 player, doing my best to match the loudness to the original recorded signal. The reason I think this might be possible is because I have seen inverse RIAA burn in CDs for sale. These CDs do not need a burn-in device that attenuates the signal, you just use your regular CD player and connect the output to your phono preamp. These CDs are merely playing digital files, at the right loudness, with an RIAA curve applied to them. So if I record the signal coming from my cartridge, wouldn't I be effectively creating one of these burn-in CD's, as long as I level match the volume to be exactly the same (which I assume is the hardest part)? Reading another audiogon thread on phono preamp burn in, there is some discussion on the fact that some of these phono burn in CDs contain the "pre-emphasis" that is applied to vinyl records and then de-emphasized by the phono stage, and others do not. I assume that if I record the signal coming straight from an LP, that my signal would contain this "pre-emphasis", so it seems to me that if I record the signal from my cartridge, I'd be getting not just a burn in CD, but a very good burn in CD that contains RIAA pre-emphasis. Again, all this would depend on whether I can level match the signal to be close to the cartridge output. So, I just don't get why this a bad idea, unless your point is that matching the signal output is the most difficult part? Or am I missing something? Maybe I'll try it on my cheap vintage amp, just to make sure I'm not overloading the phono stage during the trial and error. Then, once I get the levels right, I can move it to the iPhono2. It' s not that I'm too cheap to buy the burn-in device (I just found one on ebay for around $60 Canadian, which is awesome), it's that I would like to be able to do it with stuff I already have, and I don't want to wait two or three weeks for the burn-in device to arrive. If I could somehow start now, I could be almost finished burning it in by that time. I also don't imagine I'd have much use for this device after burning in the iPhono2, but you never know what the future might bring. Also, I'm assuming that the MM and MC part of the iPhono2 are separate circuits? So if I burn in the MM for 700 hours, that doesn't automatically mean the MC circuit is also burned in? Or is this an incorrect assumption? I use both inputs regularly. |
mantis: So, thats a lot :) I suppose if your recording device is sensitive enough capture the miniscule signal coming from your cartridge you could do what your attermpting. Just remember that most consumer level recording devices are looking for a line-in level of around .447volt(peak) -10dBV, which makes sense as it would most likely be recording from a consumer type device. Those CD's you are referring to have been professionally prepared for this sort of task. I don't like the CD's because it your player does something atypical like skips on a scratch you are going to get a full level signal to the inputs of your phonostage having no passive attenuation in series to subdue the signal. You are correct in that while the output electronics would be broken in for mm/mc simultaneously most likely if your ran-in the MM input for example the MC input would be left in the cold so to speak. The MC input in many phonostages is an additional amplificaion stage before the MM stage (i.e. Ypsilon's phono stage s a MM phono stage that makes use of SUT's to facilitate MC Cartridges). I would not sugget th route you are attempting. Others may disagree with me and if they do I humbly invite them to chime in. ] I hope this answered more questions than it may have created :) |
No worries, I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my amateur questions. I am attempting the recording right now, just to test it out, and it is recording fine. I agree there are other things that could go wrong, which crossed my mind as well - you mention the cd reading a skip or scratch a certain way, and I'm thinking if the media player I'd be using might make a weird noise when being powered on or off, or being attached to a power source. You also have to be careful about plugging in connectors while the thing is on. All things I'll test out in the next few hours, but I figure I'll try it and see how it sounds just playing it through my system, and if it sounds similar enough to my turntable and not making any weird noises, I'll go ahead with it. I am leaning towards this method more so out of impatience than anything else, as the burn in device would take about 3 weeks to arrive. Are you leaving your Pyramid on 24/7, or are you only powering it on while listening? When I was using the wall wart I just kept it plugged in 24/7 but reading the reviews for this Pyramid, some people complain about it not lasting very long, so I am hesitant to keep it powered on 24/7. I'll probably use the wall wart again for the burn in. |
mantis: I am gladd it seems to be working out for you. Concerning the Pyrmids, I leave them powered up 24/7 as the iPhono draws almost no current hence no real power to speak of is being wasted. I also leave it powered up for the iCan Pro and mac-mini but I actually power the iCan Pro down when not in use as it does consume about 20 watts even when in full solid state mode and I put the mac-mini to sleep as those little things can be thirsty. I have not so much as experienced a hiccup from any of my Pyramids and I have disabled the fan in all of them as I knew I would not be drawing any substantial amounts of current. I am not suggesting this to anyone, this was my choice as I monithored the current draw and found it negligible in my use cases. |
Yeah I am thinking pulling the fan out of mine as well. It's dead cold even after hours of use. I might still buy that burn-in device so I can run in the MC stage. I wouldn't feel as comfortable using this DYI method on the MC input as I am on the MM input. I recorded a few LP sides over the past couple of hours, a compilation album with multiple genres on it, some orchestral stuff, some bizarre electronic music with lots of weird sounds, and the frequency sweeps from the Cardas test record. Hopefully playing these on loop will give it lots to chew on. Just curious if you would recommend any a/c power line noise filtering devices, right now I am not using any power conditioning, but I have considered things like the Blue Cirle PLC Thingee. Now that I have seen the difference clean power makes, I am wondering about what other noise there might be in my power lines. |
Okay, so I am playing the recorded stuff on a fiio portable player plugged into the MM input of the iPhono2, and it’s working really well. No weird noises, sounds exactly like my turntable. I’m monitoring the iPhono2’s output and it’s not clipping or even getting into the orange. The only thing is,the signal is so quiet that I have to blast the fiio pretty much up to full volume to get it anywhere close to the normal sound of my turntable. Which means I’m essentially playing a super quiet recording amplified very loud, is there an inherent problem in that compared to playing a loud recording and attenuating it? I ordered the burn in device but now I’m wondering if that might have been a waste of money. I just tried the MC input and it works equally well, although I hear a slight bit more background noise than I do off my turntable on the MC, but it's not nearly as bad as I thought it might be. I suspect it's just powerline noise or grounding from me messing with the wires. Something sounds like a faint helicopter in the background - maybe noise from other wall warts? But other than the slight increase in background noise, the MC setting is working really well. If anybody is interested in getting these files, just message me. It would work from any music player, and you can test it out for yourself and see that nothing is overloading and that nothing weird is going on. |
Mantis: Funny, I was thinking of Blue Circle when I read your mention of that very company. I use there products, I think I have the thingee or whatever it is called, it is designed to clean up junk on the line from SMPS's. They really work, I met Gilbert here in Chicago a couple of years back at Axpona. He was performing a test where he had one of the Audio Prism Noise Sniffers (I bought one) plugged into an outlet with a lamp using a SMPS. The sniffer was howling, in went one of his thingees and dead silence. It was impressive but I asked him to follow me and I found another outlet which was out of his control, he was super gracious and accommodated my admittedly bold request. His device passed the smell test and I purchased it on the spot. It's been in my system doing duty every since. I've taken it to buddies homes and demonstrated its abilities. It really works and I've been planning to purchase more of them and also try his big filter. i also use a PS Audio P5 with an AMR mk2 fuse installed. I just picked the P5 up this past Saturday. It is an amazing device and is far better than the 1st gen power plants of which I once owned (p300 and p600). They were good but they tilted the tonal balance of my system up in frequency. The P5 does not do this at all. I am running it at between 540 and a 620 watt draw. The added noise on the MC side is most likely due to the fact that the gain is higher by (I forgot the MM gain level) what? Some 20 or more dB? So you are amplifying the noise on the line more so than when using the MM inputs which is prob around 40 dB. |
Funny how life works sometimes, I have been eyeing the PLC Thingee FX2 X0e for a while. The newer FX2 models claim to have twice the filtering capacity, and the "x0e" models have a wider spectrum of noise filtering. If you got yours at an audio show two years ago you probably have the newer FX2 x0e model. I'm sorry to somewhat highjack your thread with questions about power supplies and strategies for burning in phono preamps, just been very excited about all of this since experiencing the Pyramid LPS. Been a bit too busy for audio the past 18 months, and kind of got myself to a point where I don't spend much time with it, and when I do spend time with it I'm usually trying to fix some issue rather than enjoying the music, so I just got to a point where it feels like a chore and I am not enjoying it as much as I used to, but now I'm getting the rewarding feelings again big time. I also digitize my vinyl records to produce high quality 24/96 FLAC files for listening on-the-go, so the past little while I keep thinking there's no point in digitizing any of my records until I get the new power supply or until the iPhono2 fully burns in, or until I get a power conditioner. Just don't want to put myself into a position where I do a bunch of work but then have to re-do everything, so I keep getting this feeling that I might as well wait until I get all my upgrades, and until the unit fully burns in, before I really commit to the bulk of the work. Now I finally have the LPS, the AMR fuse is on its way, and I got the unit burning in 24/7, so I'm finally seeing the finish line and that's very exciting. P.S. The MC setting picking up a bit more noise on the line makes sense, as that input does apply way more gain to the incoming signal, and I did not take the time to carefully remove 100% of the the grounding noise (it's harder to hear when you are bypassing the phono preamp and recording the super quiet cartridge signal directly, you have to turn your amp up to max just to hear anything). I did my best to get rid of as much grounding noise as I could, but I don't think it's as perfect as I had it before. But even so, it's really not bad and it sounds almost perfect. I'm thinking it won't affect the burn in, since it's possible for it to be way worse, I actually got it really quiet all things considering. Anyway, I'd like to try to bring the conversation back to the iPhono2. Thanks for taking the time and letting me pick your brain. |
Dang, I got the fuses and they turned out to be the wrong size. It seems that the PS26KX needs the large fuse, not the small. Looks like it'll be another two week wait, but it's no big deal. So far I have had the iPhono2 burning in for 9 days and a few hours, which adds up to over 220 hours, and I had at least 150 on it prior to that. It took a year and 3 months to put that first 150 on it, so it's amazing that in just 9 days I can reach 370 hours. And MAN is it sounding good. It's becoming more and more nuanced and warm and losing harshness as the time goes. The character just keeps changing, it really keeps surprising you. For anyone reading this who is wondering if you should wait for this thing to burn in on its own, or try the burn in, all I can tell you is that I regret not doing this sooner. In about three weeks you can get this thing to 700 hours, whereas that same amount of burn in would take years, even if you listened for a couple of hours every single day. At first I thought that burning it in would deprive me of the "education" of listening to it happen, as another poster also suggested, but I find that this has been a very educational process. I check the sound pretty much every day to see where it's at, and you get to watch it change by the day. It's really fun, and it makes the changes more salient than they would be if you stretched this process over years. |
Many people reports about defective iphono 2 units in this forum: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/heads-up-ifi-phono-2.627504/page-7 Has anyone experienced something like that? The guy bought 3 units from different sources and all are defective. He's not alone with this problem. Do you still trust the manufacturer? When the warranty expired what would you do? |
Chakster: How many is many people? I had had my iPhono 2 buzz a little when it was too close to my PS Audio P5 but that was magnetic coupling in the cable and that was far far less than th coupling I've seen from former SUT's. I grant that the P5 was too close to the iPhono 2 being only one shelf away on my Bassocontinuo Accordeon rack, once place another rack space away, complete silence. "Do you still trust the manufacturer?" This question seems loaded. I have owned up until recently an ITube (1st gen), ITube 2, iPhono (1 gen), iPhono 2, iPurifier (1st gen), iPurifier 2, iUSB, iUSB 3.0, iOne, iDSD BL and a iCan PRO along with an AMR CD77.1, AMR PH 77 and an AMR DP 777 se. I just traded in a couple of no longer used iFi pieces on a PS Audio product. I have found their products beyond excellent or I wouldn't keep buying them. I had to have service on my PH 77 once and my CD 77.1. The PH 77 issue was firmware related and long after that product was out of production. I contacted AMR and described the glitch I was exeperiencing, much to my surprise 2 weeks later a package arrived with a .2 version of the firmware in eeprom form, problem solved. My CD 77.1 had been modified by the former distributor and was having an issue in one of the channels, again AMR handled it with no problem, substituting in the new Tri Core SE capacitors. I would say they they have been one of the better companies and very solid much like the awesome folks over at PS Audio or Pass Labs. These types of open ended questions can impune a companies integrity in the minds of people who know little about the company. "When the warranty expired what would you do?", you ask. I would contact the company like I have many other entities in times past and see what options I have. Since I have personally had two products out of warranty (PH77 and CD77.1 (which was sold to me on this forum defective(the defect was not disclosed to me)) I know first hand they are first rate guys and will handle it expeditiously. |
Please read the link i have posted, i only talking about iPhono2, i know that you are fan of all their stuff, but there are people posting about serious problems, not just buzz. Also many owners complaining the unit get very hot while using. Some people posting about bad power supplies. All came from this company. Some units does not work well from the start. I just checked that thread and after some rave comments from people affected by Fremmer’s review and all the hype i’ve come across some very bad comments from other users. Return policy allow people to send them back for full refund, but what about the quality control? |
I did read the whole thing. My point is any company can have a bad batch. A supplier can ship a bad batch of caps as has happened to some very prominent amplifier manufacturers, it is how they handle the the situation that counts. PS Audio had a horrible run with the former Power Plant Premiers but they handled it in great fashion. I don't recall anyone asking "do you still trust the manufacturer?". I would be one of the first to call out a manufacturer if they had failings and refused to stand behind their product. I don't see that in this case. The iPhono 2 is (with a LPS) still one of the best phono stages I've heard regardless of price as it has dispatched some multi kilobuck units in my system. I just found it interesting that you decided to join this particular thread just to spread that link. |
Chakster: I wanted to add add that if I came off as sounding a bit harsh, I apologize. Of course anyone is free to say what they please about any product and if in fact their is a real problem inside iFi or any other company which is not being addressed then I like anyone else would want to know. It was just the phrasing and the way it was presented that appeared (at least to me) that another agenda was afoot. If I misread you, I stand corrected. |
@audiofun I just found it interesting that you decided to join this particular thread just to spread that link. Because i was shocked when i did my search. I was intended to try this unit untill i saw bad comments. I even found a great deal in UK, but when someone bought 3 defective unit (new) one by one then something definitely wrong. I'd like to clear up this thing for myself and that's why i posted info here. On the other hand everyone talking about expensive or overpriced phono stages and some average phono stages received many reviews, but no one talking about really good and reasonably priced phono stages that are not reviewed that much yet (like JLTi for example). I like the simplicity in signal path, but the iPhono has so many switches etc. The name and the whole philosophy behind this brand (adding some "tubey" devices) and their incorrect statement about different riaa ... all that along with some technical problems makes me think twice. However, i use 3 turntables and 6 tonearms with different cartridges, and one more phono stage is what i need (i already got 2 different phono stages that i like). I like the idea to connect two cables in one phono stage to switch between mc / mm without changing the cable each time. I like the price tag of the iPhono2. But i know another amazing phono stage for mc/mm at the same price (the JLTi) with the simplest signal path and the ability to change load resistors (rca plugs on the back) with zero capacitance (that i can change only by external cable). |
Has anyone tried is with extremely low (0,05mV) output MC cartridges like ortofon MC-2000 ? @james1969 can you mention any other good phono stages you have owned before the iphono2? We are always so happy about new things we're buying, especially if the price is good, but one week is probably not enough time. Someone can say which phono stages are better than iphono2 in this thread? It would be interesting to know. |
James1969: I have never found a battery to be superior or on-par to the grid (unless you are using deep cycle marine batteries on some devices like turntables), you lose dynamics in a lot of cases. In the case of my former MSB Power Dac Gold the batteries sounded identical to the wall. If you are experiencing noise, can you determine if it is a 60hz hum? Fluorescent lighting in the area can be an issue as well as dimmers. I wold make sure the tone arm cable to the iPhono is at right angles to power cords if it is in close vicinity to any power cords, also make sure the tone arm cable is not near any transformers like power supplies of neighboring equipment. It will sound like a steady buzz as the 60hz power signal in the transformer will couple to the tonearm cables and get amplified along wit your musical signal. EM coupling is very real. Disconnect the tonearm cables from the input of the iPhono, (make sure you mute your preamp or select a different input) after the cable is disconnected unmute or go back to phono input, do you still hear the noise. If yes, the issue may be a ground loop, if not it is most likely EM coupling. I use a magnetometer, actually there are iPhone magnetometer apps which use its built in ability sense magnetic fields, so for what? $0.99 you have a magnetometer :) I actually use the app. I use the PS26KX with an AMR mk2 fuse installed. I actually use 3 of them plugged into my PS Audio P10. Yes yes they are regulated but the P10 also does some filtering and a better sine wave in the beginning makes for a better rectified d.c. current. ---------https://www.parts-express.com/pyramid-ps26kx-power-supply-6-15-vdc-22a--120-548--------- Hope this helps. |
I'm not experiencing any noise at all, just what I hear when I put my ear up to the tweeter and turn up the volume (with no material playing). I do hear a little noise. Not a very practical test, as if music were playing, the noise would not be audible at the levels I had the volume set. I do have a dimmer switch when turned on, I can hear the buzz in my system. So it's never used/on when my system is on. I didn't mean to mislead anyone in thinking I have a noise issue. I do not. The iPhono2 is very quiet. I was just wondering if a battery would do any better than the provided wall wart. |
@james1969 I'm using the iPhono2 with a Koetsu RSP (0.3 mV output). I also use the Lamm LP2 Deluxe phono stage. I see, but 0,3mV and 0,05mV is not the same. Many phono stages can handle 0.2mV, but 0,05mV is extremely low output for MC. The guy on that forum said his iphono2 just stop working after 1 month and after changind 3 of them under warranty he gave up (and he's not alone). This is so strange. Folks with the same problem ended up with Musical Surroundings Phonomena II and NWA phono stages after all. |
Chakster: You ask if it can handle a .05mv cart. The website clearly states the iPhono 2 can provide up to 72db which is a factor of 3,981.07. This comes to an output voltage of 199.05mv. So, 2/10's of a volt output. I'd consider that low and opt for 78db of gain for a cartridge that low. I assume you are asking about a .05mv cart because that is what you use. If this is the case, I would suggest the iPhono 2 won't fit the bill for you so you needn't worry about the "strange" failures you continue to mention in this thread. Find a phono stage that does at least 78db and you should be set. |
@audiofun as you may know i have many cartridges, the lowest in output is Ortofon mc-2000, good to know that iPhono2 is not designed for such a low output (thanks). I have SUTs and Headamps which i use with two other phono stages, no problem. As for the failures i'm sure it's better to know how bad it can be when other users simply ignore the facts that the stage can stop working after one month (this is crazy and must be said). |
They have sold literally thousands of these things, I've owned one since the 1st gen and I've not had a problem. I am not saying a problems can't exist. I am just going to come out and say it. You seem suspect. You come on this thread to talk about alleged issues others mention on a different site while trying to push 3 other phono stages and claiming that AMR/iFi misrepresented something concerning EQ. What's your game? How bad bad is it? What percentage in the field are failing? How are you getting this information? You mention all the sound killing switches in the iPhono, etc. You see how the more you write the more it appears you have an axe to grind with iFi? |
I started this thread to share my experiences with a superlative phono stage that has upstaged units costing near $10k because it is nice to be able to get that type of performance on the cheap. If you want to discuss a handful of issues some may unfortunaelty have encountered, why don't you start your own thread. |
I'm going to correct myself. At 72dB with a 200mv output the iPhono 2 should be able to handle a .05mv cart. I sometimes revert back to my old passive pre (MFA Reference) days and forget I'm running an active gain stage these days. That is plenty of oomph, so for those who TRULY have an interest in this phono stage, I would say that a cart of .05mv shouldn't be an issue. I thought about this last night as I was spinning records with my iPhono 2 doing to duty and listening to digital. Even in a passive system, if one has a more sensitive amps like my Graafs, (2) GM200's or my Modena it should drive them. I think my initial answer was a bit hasty as I was a bit agrivated by senseless posts. |
@audiofun You come on this thread to talk about alleged issues others mention on a different site while trying to push 3 other phono stages and claiming that AMR/iFi misrepresented something concerning EQ. What’s your game?One of that stages is parented company of iFi and no one has had an issues if you will google it. That’s why. Fremmer pointed out the following: "I was fortunate enough to speak with one of the last surviving original UK Decca mastering engineers George Bettyes. Mr. Bettyes insisted that Decca implemented the RIAA curve as soon as the company began issuing stereo records. He also insisted that UK Decca and American London records were identical other than the labels used. That is why, he insisted, all older American stereo London records say on them “use the RIAA curve”. So when you read in the instructions here about using the Columbia curve on ‘70s era stereo records, do yourself a favor and ignore them! Ditto what’s suggested about Decca records and the Decca FFRR curve! If these records sound “better” with those curves, you are using them as a tone control and not for strictly accurate playback." I started this thread to share my experiences with a superlative phono stage that has upstaged units costing near $10k because it is nice to be able to get that type of performance on the cheap. I always tryin to get decent performance without payin 10k on anything hi-end. Yes it’s nice and many designers are not trying to full people with 10k price tags for simple products like phono stages. I appreciate that. Nice to see other people realizing that 10k unit is not always a stellar perforer. Audio products with 10k price tag does not exists for me, i can not afford it. Also, if you have all these other phono stages/SUT’s/ head amps than can handle your MC 2000 and you clearly don’t like the why again, I ask are you on this site asking if it can handle that cartridge? Headamp and SUTS are external units, nice to have a small unit that can handle so low output alone without any external devices. That’s why. And to compare the sound quality of course. We're always looking for the best sound, you know. I’m going to correct myself. At 72dB with a 200mv output the iPhono 2 should be able to handle a .05mv cart. I sometimes revert back to my old passive pre (MFA Reference) days and forget I’m running an active gain stage these days. That is plenty of oomph, so for those who TRULY have an interest in this phono stage, I would say that a cart of .05mv shouldn’t be an issue. Ok, that’s better, because if iphono2 can handle .05mV then it’s truly high gain phono stage for extremely low output classics (like the Ortofon MC2000 and others). |
So back to the topic lf my thread, how many have actually used a linear power supply with your iPhono 2 and what are your thoughts? I was listening to an album I recently purchased "Hans Zimmerman Live in Prague", it was spectacular! I've considered trying other linear supplies but the Pyramid has been outstanding. My O' Scope just came back from the shop this weekend so I may experiment with my own linear regulated supply which I designed a few years back. |
James1969: Absolutely, the iPower is a very good supply especially for a SMPS, but it does not compete with the 20 something pound linear regulated pyramid supply which uses an EI transformer. Due to the air gap in their design, EI tranformers are inherently better at blocking noise than toroidal but they also radiate more magnetic flux so move it away from your phono stage (I have 3 of the pyramids and I have never found them to be offenders from a magnetic coupling standpoint, probably due to their heavy steel case construction). The Sound will be more relaxed and fleshed out while offering a deeper soundstage and overall a more engaging listening session. Long story short, it makes it sound much much more costly than it is. I know cost does not mean everything but it can buy you great sound if you know what you're doing. The best I can say is it sounds like you have just the correct amount of tube magic added to your system with no slowness, or syrupy colorations, just the best parts of what tubes do. Without the LPS, I don't think it would fare as well as it did with the B-Lab. The B-Lab was $10k until relatively recent, the dropping Euro has brought that retail cost down somewhat. The B-Lab is an awesome phono stage and I was considering purchasing it (had it on extended audition). The iPhono 2 was so good and competitive I just could not make a sound case for it. I won't lie, I loved the look and feel of the B-Lab and really wanted it to better the IPhono LOL. It was not to be and my bank account is the better for it. I am not taking anything away from the B-Lab, it is still one of the best phono stages I've heard. |
Last week a friend gave me iPhono2 and on a weekend i’ve been able to check it out in my system with various cartridges (MM and MC). I decided to post it here before i will forget everything. Luckily there was no issue with power supply i’ve been woried about about in my previous posts above. The size of the iPhono2 is even smaller than i expected, the RCA sockets are too close to each other, so maybe not the best for some of the bold RCAs like the Xsadow, but was ok for my WBT 0114, Eichman Bullet and LoveCraft RCAs. **** **** My system is ... **** **** 2 x Luxman PD-444 turntables with SAEC SS-300 mats on one of them. https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25498140_2001414729876684_7039186983361390050_n.jpg?oh... Phono stages: JLTi MM/MC phono stage with rca sockets for load resistors on the back. WLM Phonata Reference MM/MC phono stage (upgraded). Luxman AD8000 with silver SUT 8030 for low impedance carts Upgraded Grado PH-1 phono stage ZYX CPP-1 headamp Tonearms and cartridges on this test: Luxman TA-1 tonearm for high compliance Stanton SC-100 WOS mm cart. Victor UA-7045 tonearm with Grace F-14 LC-OFC cartridge. Lustre GST-801 with Fidelity-Research FR-7f and Ortofon SPU Royal G mkII with Replicant-100 stylus, SONY PUA-7 with Ortofon MC-2000 cartridge. Speakers: ZU Audio Druid MK5 (actually upgraded mk4) speakers with 101db efficiency. WLM Minueta tube arm with NOS telefunken and matsushita (*mullard tooling) tubes. **** **** To make is short (about iPhono2 with MM): **** **** I was not impressed by the sound of iPhono2 with MM cartridges, it was quiet, fast and dynamic, but a way too bright. I found all that switches useless, the RIAA is nothing but a tone control and has nothing to do with reality (as pointed by M.Fremer in his review), so i set up standard riaa curve. The capacitance load does not change much to my ears. The unfoirtunately there is no resistance load for MM cartridges which is far more important, so 47k Ohm is default setting. Grace F-14 LC-OFC sound far more superior with 100k ohm load with JLTi phono stage. The bass impact was far more superior with WLM Phonata Reference (also with 100k ohm Vishay load resistors). Both WLM and JLTi have more weights and overall are much more comfortable than bright iPhono2 with the MM carts. iPhono2 is better than Grado PH-1 phono stages, they are in the same price category, the Grado was $500 new, but i have changed load resistors to Vishay Naked Foil 100k instead of 47k. Grace recommended 47-100k Ohm load for their cartridges btw. I Would recommend JLTi for those who prefer MM cartridges, compared to iPhono2, because of the limited default 47k Ohm standard on iPhono2. **** **** Now about iPhono2 with MC (Good news): **** **** The iPhono2 was great with my Ortofon SPU Royal G mkII LOMC cartridge! Shockingly great for its price. I was very impressed about the sound quality, details, soundstage. However both of my LOMC carts that worked well with iPhono2 were better with Luxman SUT + JLTi MM phono. Especially in the lower register. But the price of this combo (SUT and JLTi) is much higher. So i think for MC stage with high gain the iPhono2 is great! But the iPhono2 does NOT work well with 0.05mV Ortofon MC2000 LOMC cartridge, 72dB gain is definitely not enough for this beast! If your cartridge is has such a low output then iPhono2 should be avoided. In fact even 1:30 Luxman silver SUT is not ideal for an Ortofon MC-2000, but much better than iPhono. The Fidelity-Research FR-7f is definitely better with SUT and my JLTi compared to iPhono2. P.S. I will return the iPhono2 to my friend, it was nice to check it out for a few days with different cartridges. I do not have more time, but for me it’s clear. Don’t believe the hype! It is a good product, but even in this price category there are better products available with different features such as load resistors sockets. Personally i would NOT buy iPhono for MM cartridges, especially if your system is similar to mine, but it might work well for some great MC carts like the Ortofon SPU Royal G MKII (with this cartridge iPhono2 was great). |
Chakster’s results with the Ortofon MC2000 driving the iPhono2, which supplies 72db of gain, were to be expected. As someone else noted above, the .05mV of the MC2000 would produce 0.2V output. If you connect the iPhono2 to a high-ish gain linestage (at least 10db or better yet 15-20db), then you’d have enough signal voltage to drive most amplifiers. 0.2V won’t get much out of an amplifier, although the cartridge output of .05mV is the measurement at a modest stylus velocity of 3.54 cm/sec (the old standard value, I assume since the cartridge is so old). During music, the stylus moves much faster much of the time (therefore producing more signal voltage than you might think), and sometimes an apparent mismatch between cartridge output and phono gain, like this one, can be surprisingly OK. My phonoline stage produces well over 80db total gain (probably close to 90db) and handles the MC2000 with no fuss and no SUT. The MC2000 is a one of a kind weird duck, for sure, but worth the effort. |
Maybe i will give up on this Ortofon MC2000, i have plenty of decent MM cartridges and some easy to use MC for my phono stages. My sample is mint condition in original package with everything included. MC2000 has lower output than my ex ZYX Premium 4D (that one was 0.24mV and dead quiet). So i'm open for offers for this beats. |
Audiofun, Can you confirm whether large or small 6.3 slow fuse is for the Pyramid? I just ordered the Pyramid and small fuse today and it looks like I may be getting the wrong size fuse. If so, I'd like to order the large immediately. please advise and thanks. Doug Olsen mantis-toboggan14 posts10-04-2017 6:20pmDang, I got the fuses and they turned out to be the wrong size. It seems that the PS26KX needs the large fuse, not the small. |
Dear @chakster : The OP gentleman is very deep foubnded with his item and " extremely " satisfied with and this is the more important for him because he is who must live with and listenin it and ceratinly not only an audiophile but a music lover too. Now, you are not the first audiophile in this thread that after listened the item was not really " jumping " for it and it can’t be in that way. Every item design was designed to a price market point and as you said even at its price range are better units and obviously other higher price items will be a lot better. That iPhono item is a tricky ( they manipulated the signal to achieve a " signature ". They did not let it " goes " the design with out " touched " with out changed. This trade-off was and is a privilege of any designer and I'm not questioning about. No one can do it. ) ) design and any one can read about in its site. Anyway, please read something what I posted in this thread before: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-iphono-2/post?postid=1415693#1415693 https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-iphono-2/post?postid=1415865#1415865 Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
chakster, does your JLTi include the optional outboard power supply? I bought an early one (black box) from Oz. At that time they were matched with a wall wart, which they said was all that was needed. A local friend built a fully regulated power supply for mine which improved performance noticeably, particularly with bass production and overall dynamics. About that time, JLTi began offering their own outboard PS as an option. That’s why I ask. |
