I was considering to stretch my budget a little and get the ifi - vs. Schiit Mani with aftermarket LPS, but these long burn-in requirements turned me off a bit. Doing the math, even if I listened to records two hours every night, it could take a full year for this preamp to sound as it should. Never heard any gear requiring this much break in time. Is this a common thing for phono preamps in general or unique to this particular item?
review iPhono 2
I must be slow as I could not find a link to place this as a review.
So, I have written about the 1st gen iPhono in the past, comparing it to the very fine Coincident phonostage which I believe is about $6k. I preferred the iPhono but I could just as easily imagine someone else going for the Coincident unit. In that review I thought the Coincident had a better sustain, decay and bloom while the iPhono was hands down the winner in the prat department. The iPhono made my feet move, the Coincident, not so much.
Later on I added the iPower to the fray and the iPhono shored up the areas it lacked. As a former owner of the very very nice Graaf GM70 I was a bit surprised and dismayed when I finally received the iPhono and heard it once fully run-in. I would not have shelled out the thousands of dollars I paid for the GM70 and the vintage NOS tubs I purchased to make it sing, oh and the $1600 I had to spend on the Ortofon ST-80SE SUT to use with the MM inputs of the Graaf as I could not get it quiet enough to tolerate with the MC inputs. The very small $400 iPhono basically did everything the Graaf did (with the iPower that is).
My reference phonostage for the last few years (and probably many more to come) is the fabulous AMR PH77 and I’m running it with a set of Bendix 6900 tubes which elevates its performance even more than the already stellar stock configurations performance. In comparison to my PH77, I found the 1st gen iPhono to be a bit thin and during crescendos it could become a little ragged. Still, it remained in my arsenal as a handy and trusty back-up. The PH77 is of course tubed and as we tube owners know all too well, sometimes they fail and you are down for a while.
Compared to most phonostages I have heard, some of them costing up to $9k I found the 1st gen iPhono to be able to hold its own in some cases crazy as it may sound it was just plain better. I believe AMR intended the iPhono/iTube to be used in conjunction as a sort of baby AMR PH77 and I ran it that way for some time and yes, it does share that familial DNA when it comes to sonic signature.
Move forward some years and I have in my possession the iPhono2 and the iTube 2. To say that the iPhono 2 is better than its predecessor is far too simple a statement. Mr. Fremer thought it to be at least twice as good as the original. I would agree with his assessment. Out of the box with the included iPower is shows far more prowess in the areas of bass but otherwise is pretty close to the original. After about 20 hours a bit more fluidity begins to appear. Again at the 100 and about the 340 hour mark big jumps occur in the areas of fluidity and continuousness. When you get to 480 hours forget about it!
This thing sounds like it has a tube in it, and I don’t mean in that classic overly warm soft rose colored sound that I found so fantastic when I was new to high end audio. No, I am referring to a pellucid but meaty embodiment and rendering of the music. A sound one would immediately associate with MUCH costlier gear.
Most of my listening has been done with my second turntable system which is composed of a Technics SL-1200 GAE with a fully broken in Denon 103R on a LP Zupreme 15 gram headshell and my London Reference. The phono stage then feeds the iCan Pro (best pre I have heard and I have owned 2 MFA Ref units, the baby Ref and the full Ref), the Tube Research Labs GTP 2, and many more. I have had in my system for evaluation the Veloce (battery powered) the Allnic L3000 and many others. From the pre it goes to the custom active crossover and then to a Graaf Modena for the mids, a Harmonix Reimyo PAT777 for the Raal Ribbons and a pair of Acoustic Reality Thaumaturges ($25K when available) for the woofers. The speaker is called the Encore and is my own design. I simply got tired of paying for passive boxes made of MDF with wood screws going directly into the glued wood dust and sold for tens of thousands of dollars but I digress :)
The sound is at once flowing and dynamic. It grabs and holds my attention and really gets my foot tapping. The sound is MUCH more refined and fuller than the original iPhono with no hint of raggedness during large scale bombastic music. For instance it scales far more convincingly on some of the more challenging passages in Hans Zimmers wonderful soundtrack to Gladiator. The original could sound a bit blocky if you take my meaning. It did not have the ability to gracefully scale the mountain so to speak. The iPhono 2 does it with much more ease and refinement.
Here is where it gets interesting. As good as the iPhono 2 is out of the box and it is very very good (and especially after 340 hours or more) in fact far far better than the DS Audio optical cartridge system that I auditioned, it can be made to sound a good deal better. Now this is my own thing, the iFi line of SMPS’s are admittedly super quiet and much better than most SMPS such as the ones inside my apple gear, but I hate them ALL.
I do not like green eggs and.., ahem. Sorry, just flashed back to Dr. Seuss when I thought of my aversion to SMPS’s.
I mean I understand why they are used, efficient, cheaper to ship and inherently regulated. But they still hurt the sound of my system. As an aside I am actually having a custom linear PS built for my SL-1200 GAE to replace the awful SMPS that Technics installed. So to the point, I replaced the iPower with a linear regulated lab grade power supply. I don’t like hyperbole so I offer none but the result was nothing short of breath taking. There is a great deal more that can be had from that little silver box with a good (and I do mean good) linear supply.
Next I added the iTube 2 to the fray. As I mentioned before AMR always sorta intended this combo to be a baby PH77 as was or may still be mentioned on the iFi site. How to put this; everything I have said about the iPhono 2 up to this point; multiply it by 2 times again. Now you have that sorta living presence that the performers are in your vicinity. Things are rounder, more palpable and it breathes much easier. Again I powered the iTube 2 with a linear supply along with the iCan Pro. Please don’t misunderstand me, I lived with these units powered via there very good SMPS’s for quite a while and they made beautiful music BUT I knew there was much more to be had.
Like Mr. Fremer (paraphrased) stated, to get better than the iPhono 2 you are going to have spend much more and you still may not surpass this unit. I auditioned a $16K current phono stage that people rave over and my ears tell me that it cannot compete with iPhono 2/ iTube 2 combination. I will not call this a reference phono stage. It is great and I listen to it daily but I reserve titles like reference for the likes of Ypsilon, VDH Grail SB and my AMR PH77. The little combo does far more than I could have imagined. It capable of truly astounding musical reproduction on a grand scale.
Remember to let it run in for at least 100 (and I suggest 300) hours before you really start to judge it but my guess is it won’t take most people that long to know that this is special gear designed by some super gifted engineers who also happen to actually be able to HEAR. Thanks for reading and I hope this helps someone make a decision one way or the other. Happy listening.
213 responses Add your response
dougolsen and glennewdick: its going to to keep getting better up to about 700hrs but that is actually with a signal run through it. Simply being plugged into the socket wil help to some degree. I bought an inexspensiv FM tuner on this site specifically to break devices in and especially phonostages as it can take a long time just playing records, especially if you listen to multiple sources as I do. Make ups some dummy loads with about 33k ohms and get yourself an attenuated reverse RIAA cable or box. Hagermann makes a burn in box phono stages, another option is a CD specifically enigineered to break in phonostages. |
@pryso chakster, does your JLTi include the optional outboard power supply? I use wall wart version, but now they are offering the upgrade, so anyone can ship the item back to them to upgrade it to mark 5 I was thinking to ask Joe about this upgrade, but i have prior things at the moment. |
Just to follow up on this thread, after reading all these reviews i also picked up an Iphono2 for my system as a temp until I can find a used tube phono stage that has the settings I'm looking for. that said I'm totally blown away at the performance of this little phono stage, for the money I agree its one of the better phono stages out there (needs to be left plugged in for 200-400 hours to sound its best like others stated). I really like the amount of loading/gain settings there are it really helped me focus in on the optimum loading for my VDH MC10 cart. I always thought 100ohms was the sweet spot but after playing with the loading setting with a few audiophile friends I've come to feel closer to 1000ohms is better over all with better defined bass and musicality. I'm so impressed I've not bothered to look for a replacement and now am spending the money on other upgrades. I have a Tube SET integrated so I don't feel I need the itube buffer stage but for the money I may pick one up to play with it. |
Audiofun I've had my iphono2 since yesterday and have run it for about four hours. I'm very surprised at how good it sounds being so new. But the thing runs very hot, almost to hot to touch. I dont understand why. I have a Pyramid coming and the small fuse I ordered from Tweek Geek is being held until I confirm if I need the small or large 6.3 slow blow fuse. Someday you may regret posting that you are a degreed electronics engineer. :-) I'll appreciate your help. Regards, Doug Olsen |
rauliruegas: you wrote: Btw, I never posted it was not a SS design. you listed the very link (a few messages back in this thread) to one of your previous posts: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-iphono-2/post?postid=1415693#1415693 where you wrote: "It’s not a true SS design and certainly not a full bipolar one. No single Ifi product is." TubeState is a trademarked name designed to indicate a unique cricuit. Again, going after a signature sound is not what you described. You wrote: " They did not let it " goes " the design with out " touched " with out changed." I responded by mentioning that the RIAA curve was not touched. Please please show me a circuit ANY circuit SS or tubed or hybrid where the electrons go through it "untouched". I want to see that circuit. What circuit are you using for your litmus test that has absolutely NO signature in order to compare and determine that the iFi is in your words "manipulating" the signal. This circuit adds no EQ’ing other than the RIAA curve (or one of the other 5 curves). You are conflating a marketing term to denote a circuit which a designer identified as sounding "musical, or pleasant" with manipulaton akin to noise shaping in some dacs. When Krell produced the Cast Transmission system which some thought sounded better than voltage amplification, did they manipulate the signal. No, same levels, no added EQ’ing but current amplification can sound differecnt than voltage amplification in the same way that components can measure the same and sound completely different. |
Dear @audiofun : Perhaps you are not aware what was or what is the iPhono manufacturer touted: Class A TubeState that is touted here: https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-iphono2/ Well this is what you can read in the manufacturer site on that Class A Tube State meaning: Class A, TubeState® The micro iCAN uses a discrete circuit that deliberately models the way tubes amplify audio. The TubeState creates a warm, spacious and natural sound, without the noise and distortion most tube circuits produce. This TubeState® circuit is exclusive to iFi, and it dishes out quite a large dollop of sonic improvement, over and above other mains powered Class A headphone amplifiers. """ All the iFI use that TubeState circuit. """ uses a discrete circuit that deliberately models the way tubes amplify audio. """ that for a non-technical an expert engineering ( I'm talking of me. ) like you has a name: manipulation. Btw, I never posted it was not a SS design. """ This tube vs SS nonsense... """ No sense? where are your facts where belongs your true foundations on that statement. Because not once but several times I posted irrefutable facts some of them scientific facts that are against your no sense statement. Never mind, be happy with what you have, this is the more important issue. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
rauliruegas: Let me chime in here and speak on my own behalf. I am probably going to regret this. rauliruegas you wrote: "That’s why I posted is a " tricky " design. It’s not a true SS design and certainly not a full bipolar one." The iPhono is solid state end of story. There is not a valve device to be found in it. The iPhono does NOT differentiate from the RIAA curve (provided of the 6 available that is the one you have selected) so I don’t understand your posting of " they manipulated the signal to achieve a " signature ". They did not let it " goes " the design with out " touched " with out changed.". If you are conflating the use of differing SS devices such as mosfet’s combined with bipolars or Jfets with "manipulating a signal" while still maintaining the RIAA curve I would humbly suggest you are in error. Based on your argument, any and all devices, that are arranged in such a way as to present a certain set of characteristics, say the CCIR curve, would portend manipulation of that curve if they did not use one specific type of device throughout the circuit. Lets say that someone built a CCIR EQ circuit using all octals and then another person built a circuit with the exact same transfer function but using octals and 9 pin miniatures and lets throw in a jfet for the fun of it. If that EQ curve measures the same, they did NOT manipulate that signal. The Strain Gauge system (the older version more so than his latest efforts) could be said to manipulate the RIAA curve because if I am not mistaken is does not adhere to the RIAA curve (and I am NOT picking on that system, just highlighting a fact for demonstration purposes). As an example my AMR PH 77 has a unique in-house designed curve for DMM records. That IS a manipulation of the RIAA curve. I believe your terminology is incorrect. If you are writing about signatures, then sure. Most manufacturers go for a certain signature, hence a "house-sound". Unless you can produce a frequency plot or a circuit diagram that details a gross deviation from the RIAA specification within the iPhono 2 your words are at best reckless. Now if someone doesn’t like the unit, so what. I don’t like most gear that the reviewers and many people rave about especially when it comes to dacs and phono stages. I was shopping recently for my 4th phono stage and I compared the Pass Labs XP25, Sim Audio 810P, SPL Phonos and a few others in the same system. Based on magazine reviews and various sites and the psycho babble nuts who show up from time to time to tell us we only hear what we want to hear and that the most expensive units influence us, I should have chosen the Pass. I love Pass gear and at one time had the AWESOME Aleph 1.2 amps which by the way I should have kept, I still regret not hanging on to that amplifier, sigh. Ok, back to the point, the XP 25 was probably the one I liked least of all. I found it thin, sterile and detached from the music but it was airy. The best by FAR was the SPL Phonos and I bought it. Is it better than my iPhono 2 on a linear supply? Yes it is. It is the first phono stage other than my PH 77 that I have preferred to the iPhono 2 but it is noisier than the iPhono 2. The noise is not an issue unless you really have to go high into gain or volume which in my case I do not. The Sim was about $9K, Pass was $10.6K and the SPL is $2.5K. The point is that the iPhono 2 is a serious piece of gear and while it has vanquished many very expensive phono stages, I did find one (albeit 5 times the cost) that I prefer. All of the above because you (Raul) wrote in another post "There is no way that tubes can compete with a good SS design if what we want is to be truer to the recording. ". I can tell you as the owner of a fully sorted R2R deck with R2R Safety Master of Jacintha "Here’’s to Ben" and "Jacintha is her Name" and the 45’s of both albums including the newly released 1 Plate Master limited edition of "Jacintha’s Here’s to Ben" my SP10 MK3 Kuzma/Anna/PH77 sounds closer to the R2R than any other phono stage I have heard. This tube vs SS nonsense needs to stop. I have said for years the better my gear gets i.e. the better the individual pieces are the more they sound alike REGARDLESS of the underlying topology. This should make sense to anyone who understands what we are going after. My Graaf Modena OTL sounds very very much like my Acoustic Reality Thaumaturges. If you a listen to live unamplified music or visit the Opera, etc. and your goal is an attempt at the recreation of that live sound AND if you go after gear that REALLY sounds truer to life and not what some on-the-take reviewer says is the best this month you should notice that more and more of your gear sounds very very similar regardless of its design. |
chakster, does your JLTi include the optional outboard power supply? I bought an early one (black box) from Oz. At that time they were matched with a wall wart, which they said was all that was needed. A local friend built a fully regulated power supply for mine which improved performance noticeably, particularly with bass production and overall dynamics. About that time, JLTi began offering their own outboard PS as an option. That’s why I ask. |
Dear @chakster : The OP gentleman is very deep foubnded with his item and " extremely " satisfied with and this is the more important for him because he is who must live with and listenin it and ceratinly not only an audiophile but a music lover too. Now, you are not the first audiophile in this thread that after listened the item was not really " jumping " for it and it can’t be in that way. Every item design was designed to a price market point and as you said even at its price range are better units and obviously other higher price items will be a lot better. That iPhono item is a tricky ( they manipulated the signal to achieve a " signature ". They did not let it " goes " the design with out " touched " with out changed. This trade-off was and is a privilege of any designer and I'm not questioning about. No one can do it. ) ) design and any one can read about in its site. Anyway, please read something what I posted in this thread before: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-iphono-2/post?postid=1415693#1415693 https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-iphono-2/post?postid=1415865#1415865 Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
Audiofun, Can you confirm whether large or small 6.3 slow fuse is for the Pyramid? I just ordered the Pyramid and small fuse today and it looks like I may be getting the wrong size fuse. If so, I'd like to order the large immediately. please advise and thanks. Doug Olsen mantis-toboggan14 posts10-04-2017 6:20pmDang, I got the fuses and they turned out to be the wrong size. It seems that the PS26KX needs the large fuse, not the small. |
Maybe i will give up on this Ortofon MC2000, i have plenty of decent MM cartridges and some easy to use MC for my phono stages. My sample is mint condition in original package with everything included. MC2000 has lower output than my ex ZYX Premium 4D (that one was 0.24mV and dead quiet). So i'm open for offers for this beats. |
Chakster’s results with the Ortofon MC2000 driving the iPhono2, which supplies 72db of gain, were to be expected. As someone else noted above, the .05mV of the MC2000 would produce 0.2V output. If you connect the iPhono2 to a high-ish gain linestage (at least 10db or better yet 15-20db), then you’d have enough signal voltage to drive most amplifiers. 0.2V won’t get much out of an amplifier, although the cartridge output of .05mV is the measurement at a modest stylus velocity of 3.54 cm/sec (the old standard value, I assume since the cartridge is so old). During music, the stylus moves much faster much of the time (therefore producing more signal voltage than you might think), and sometimes an apparent mismatch between cartridge output and phono gain, like this one, can be surprisingly OK. My phonoline stage produces well over 80db total gain (probably close to 90db) and handles the MC2000 with no fuss and no SUT. The MC2000 is a one of a kind weird duck, for sure, but worth the effort. |
Last week a friend gave me iPhono2 and on a weekend i’ve been able to check it out in my system with various cartridges (MM and MC). I decided to post it here before i will forget everything. Luckily there was no issue with power supply i’ve been woried about about in my previous posts above. The size of the iPhono2 is even smaller than i expected, the RCA sockets are too close to each other, so maybe not the best for some of the bold RCAs like the Xsadow, but was ok for my WBT 0114, Eichman Bullet and LoveCraft RCAs. **** **** My system is ... **** **** 2 x Luxman PD-444 turntables with SAEC SS-300 mats on one of them. https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25498140_2001414729876684_7039186983361390050_n.jpg?oh... Phono stages: JLTi MM/MC phono stage with rca sockets for load resistors on the back. WLM Phonata Reference MM/MC phono stage (upgraded). Luxman AD8000 with silver SUT 8030 for low impedance carts Upgraded Grado PH-1 phono stage ZYX CPP-1 headamp Tonearms and cartridges on this test: Luxman TA-1 tonearm for high compliance Stanton SC-100 WOS mm cart. Victor UA-7045 tonearm with Grace F-14 LC-OFC cartridge. Lustre GST-801 with Fidelity-Research FR-7f and Ortofon SPU Royal G mkII with Replicant-100 stylus, SONY PUA-7 with Ortofon MC-2000 cartridge. Speakers: ZU Audio Druid MK5 (actually upgraded mk4) speakers with 101db efficiency. WLM Minueta tube arm with NOS telefunken and matsushita (*mullard tooling) tubes. **** **** To make is short (about iPhono2 with MM): **** **** I was not impressed by the sound of iPhono2 with MM cartridges, it was quiet, fast and dynamic, but a way too bright. I found all that switches useless, the RIAA is nothing but a tone control and has nothing to do with reality (as pointed by M.Fremer in his review), so i set up standard riaa curve. The capacitance load does not change much to my ears. The unfoirtunately there is no resistance load for MM cartridges which is far more important, so 47k Ohm is default setting. Grace F-14 LC-OFC sound far more superior with 100k ohm load with JLTi phono stage. The bass impact was far more superior with WLM Phonata Reference (also with 100k ohm Vishay load resistors). Both WLM and JLTi have more weights and overall are much more comfortable than bright iPhono2 with the MM carts. iPhono2 is better than Grado PH-1 phono stages, they are in the same price category, the Grado was $500 new, but i have changed load resistors to Vishay Naked Foil 100k instead of 47k. Grace recommended 47-100k Ohm load for their cartridges btw. I Would recommend JLTi for those who prefer MM cartridges, compared to iPhono2, because of the limited default 47k Ohm standard on iPhono2. **** **** Now about iPhono2 with MC (Good news): **** **** The iPhono2 was great with my Ortofon SPU Royal G mkII LOMC cartridge! Shockingly great for its price. I was very impressed about the sound quality, details, soundstage. However both of my LOMC carts that worked well with iPhono2 were better with Luxman SUT + JLTi MM phono. Especially in the lower register. But the price of this combo (SUT and JLTi) is much higher. So i think for MC stage with high gain the iPhono2 is great! But the iPhono2 does NOT work well with 0.05mV Ortofon MC2000 LOMC cartridge, 72dB gain is definitely not enough for this beast! If your cartridge is has such a low output then iPhono2 should be avoided. In fact even 1:30 Luxman silver SUT is not ideal for an Ortofon MC-2000, but much better than iPhono. The Fidelity-Research FR-7f is definitely better with SUT and my JLTi compared to iPhono2. P.S. I will return the iPhono2 to my friend, it was nice to check it out for a few days with different cartridges. I do not have more time, but for me it’s clear. Don’t believe the hype! It is a good product, but even in this price category there are better products available with different features such as load resistors sockets. Personally i would NOT buy iPhono for MM cartridges, especially if your system is similar to mine, but it might work well for some great MC carts like the Ortofon SPU Royal G MKII (with this cartridge iPhono2 was great). |
James1969: Absolutely, the iPower is a very good supply especially for a SMPS, but it does not compete with the 20 something pound linear regulated pyramid supply which uses an EI transformer. Due to the air gap in their design, EI tranformers are inherently better at blocking noise than toroidal but they also radiate more magnetic flux so move it away from your phono stage (I have 3 of the pyramids and I have never found them to be offenders from a magnetic coupling standpoint, probably due to their heavy steel case construction). The Sound will be more relaxed and fleshed out while offering a deeper soundstage and overall a more engaging listening session. Long story short, it makes it sound much much more costly than it is. I know cost does not mean everything but it can buy you great sound if you know what you're doing. The best I can say is it sounds like you have just the correct amount of tube magic added to your system with no slowness, or syrupy colorations, just the best parts of what tubes do. Without the LPS, I don't think it would fare as well as it did with the B-Lab. The B-Lab was $10k until relatively recent, the dropping Euro has brought that retail cost down somewhat. The B-Lab is an awesome phono stage and I was considering purchasing it (had it on extended audition). The iPhono 2 was so good and competitive I just could not make a sound case for it. I won't lie, I loved the look and feel of the B-Lab and really wanted it to better the IPhono LOL. It was not to be and my bank account is the better for it. I am not taking anything away from the B-Lab, it is still one of the best phono stages I've heard. |
So back to the topic lf my thread, how many have actually used a linear power supply with your iPhono 2 and what are your thoughts? I was listening to an album I recently purchased "Hans Zimmerman Live in Prague", it was spectacular! I've considered trying other linear supplies but the Pyramid has been outstanding. My O' Scope just came back from the shop this weekend so I may experiment with my own linear regulated supply which I designed a few years back. |
@audiofun You come on this thread to talk about alleged issues others mention on a different site while trying to push 3 other phono stages and claiming that AMR/iFi misrepresented something concerning EQ. What’s your game?One of that stages is parented company of iFi and no one has had an issues if you will google it. That’s why. Fremmer pointed out the following: "I was fortunate enough to speak with one of the last surviving original UK Decca mastering engineers George Bettyes. Mr. Bettyes insisted that Decca implemented the RIAA curve as soon as the company began issuing stereo records. He also insisted that UK Decca and American London records were identical other than the labels used. That is why, he insisted, all older American stereo London records say on them “use the RIAA curve”. So when you read in the instructions here about using the Columbia curve on ‘70s era stereo records, do yourself a favor and ignore them! Ditto what’s suggested about Decca records and the Decca FFRR curve! If these records sound “better” with those curves, you are using them as a tone control and not for strictly accurate playback." I started this thread to share my experiences with a superlative phono stage that has upstaged units costing near $10k because it is nice to be able to get that type of performance on the cheap. I always tryin to get decent performance without payin 10k on anything hi-end. Yes it’s nice and many designers are not trying to full people with 10k price tags for simple products like phono stages. I appreciate that. Nice to see other people realizing that 10k unit is not always a stellar perforer. Audio products with 10k price tag does not exists for me, i can not afford it. Also, if you have all these other phono stages/SUT’s/ head amps than can handle your MC 2000 and you clearly don’t like the why again, I ask are you on this site asking if it can handle that cartridge? Headamp and SUTS are external units, nice to have a small unit that can handle so low output alone without any external devices. That’s why. And to compare the sound quality of course. We're always looking for the best sound, you know. I’m going to correct myself. At 72dB with a 200mv output the iPhono 2 should be able to handle a .05mv cart. I sometimes revert back to my old passive pre (MFA Reference) days and forget I’m running an active gain stage these days. That is plenty of oomph, so for those who TRULY have an interest in this phono stage, I would say that a cart of .05mv shouldn’t be an issue. Ok, that’s better, because if iphono2 can handle .05mV then it’s truly high gain phono stage for extremely low output classics (like the Ortofon MC2000 and others). |
I'm going to correct myself. At 72dB with a 200mv output the iPhono 2 should be able to handle a .05mv cart. I sometimes revert back to my old passive pre (MFA Reference) days and forget I'm running an active gain stage these days. That is plenty of oomph, so for those who TRULY have an interest in this phono stage, I would say that a cart of .05mv shouldn't be an issue. I thought about this last night as I was spinning records with my iPhono 2 doing to duty and listening to digital. Even in a passive system, if one has a more sensitive amps like my Graafs, (2) GM200's or my Modena it should drive them. I think my initial answer was a bit hasty as I was a bit agrivated by senseless posts. |
I started this thread to share my experiences with a superlative phono stage that has upstaged units costing near $10k because it is nice to be able to get that type of performance on the cheap. If you want to discuss a handful of issues some may unfortunaelty have encountered, why don't you start your own thread. |
They have sold literally thousands of these things, I've owned one since the 1st gen and I've not had a problem. I am not saying a problems can't exist. I am just going to come out and say it. You seem suspect. You come on this thread to talk about alleged issues others mention on a different site while trying to push 3 other phono stages and claiming that AMR/iFi misrepresented something concerning EQ. What's your game? How bad bad is it? What percentage in the field are failing? How are you getting this information? You mention all the sound killing switches in the iPhono, etc. You see how the more you write the more it appears you have an axe to grind with iFi? |
@audiofun as you may know i have many cartridges, the lowest in output is Ortofon mc-2000, good to know that iPhono2 is not designed for such a low output (thanks). I have SUTs and Headamps which i use with two other phono stages, no problem. As for the failures i'm sure it's better to know how bad it can be when other users simply ignore the facts that the stage can stop working after one month (this is crazy and must be said). |
Chakster: You ask if it can handle a .05mv cart. The website clearly states the iPhono 2 can provide up to 72db which is a factor of 3,981.07. This comes to an output voltage of 199.05mv. So, 2/10's of a volt output. I'd consider that low and opt for 78db of gain for a cartridge that low. I assume you are asking about a .05mv cart because that is what you use. If this is the case, I would suggest the iPhono 2 won't fit the bill for you so you needn't worry about the "strange" failures you continue to mention in this thread. Find a phono stage that does at least 78db and you should be set. |
@james1969 I'm using the iPhono2 with a Koetsu RSP (0.3 mV output). I also use the Lamm LP2 Deluxe phono stage. I see, but 0,3mV and 0,05mV is not the same. Many phono stages can handle 0.2mV, but 0,05mV is extremely low output for MC. The guy on that forum said his iphono2 just stop working after 1 month and after changind 3 of them under warranty he gave up (and he's not alone). This is so strange. Folks with the same problem ended up with Musical Surroundings Phonomena II and NWA phono stages after all. |
I'm not experiencing any noise at all, just what I hear when I put my ear up to the tweeter and turn up the volume (with no material playing). I do hear a little noise. Not a very practical test, as if music were playing, the noise would not be audible at the levels I had the volume set. I do have a dimmer switch when turned on, I can hear the buzz in my system. So it's never used/on when my system is on. I didn't mean to mislead anyone in thinking I have a noise issue. I do not. The iPhono2 is very quiet. I was just wondering if a battery would do any better than the provided wall wart. |
James1969: I have never found a battery to be superior or on-par to the grid (unless you are using deep cycle marine batteries on some devices like turntables), you lose dynamics in a lot of cases. In the case of my former MSB Power Dac Gold the batteries sounded identical to the wall. If you are experiencing noise, can you determine if it is a 60hz hum? Fluorescent lighting in the area can be an issue as well as dimmers. I wold make sure the tone arm cable to the iPhono is at right angles to power cords if it is in close vicinity to any power cords, also make sure the tone arm cable is not near any transformers like power supplies of neighboring equipment. It will sound like a steady buzz as the 60hz power signal in the transformer will couple to the tonearm cables and get amplified along wit your musical signal. EM coupling is very real. Disconnect the tonearm cables from the input of the iPhono, (make sure you mute your preamp or select a different input) after the cable is disconnected unmute or go back to phono input, do you still hear the noise. If yes, the issue may be a ground loop, if not it is most likely EM coupling. I use a magnetometer, actually there are iPhone magnetometer apps which use its built in ability sense magnetic fields, so for what? $0.99 you have a magnetometer :) I actually use the app. I use the PS26KX with an AMR mk2 fuse installed. I actually use 3 of them plugged into my PS Audio P10. Yes yes they are regulated but the P10 also does some filtering and a better sine wave in the beginning makes for a better rectified d.c. current. ---------https://www.parts-express.com/pyramid-ps26kx-power-supply-6-15-vdc-22a--120-548--------- Hope this helps. |
Has anyone tried is with extremely low (0,05mV) output MC cartridges like ortofon MC-2000 ? @james1969 can you mention any other good phono stages you have owned before the iphono2? We are always so happy about new things we're buying, especially if the price is good, but one week is probably not enough time. Someone can say which phono stages are better than iphono2 in this thread? It would be interesting to know. |
@audiofun I just found it interesting that you decided to join this particular thread just to spread that link. Because i was shocked when i did my search. I was intended to try this unit untill i saw bad comments. I even found a great deal in UK, but when someone bought 3 defective unit (new) one by one then something definitely wrong. I'd like to clear up this thing for myself and that's why i posted info here. On the other hand everyone talking about expensive or overpriced phono stages and some average phono stages received many reviews, but no one talking about really good and reasonably priced phono stages that are not reviewed that much yet (like JLTi for example). I like the simplicity in signal path, but the iPhono has so many switches etc. The name and the whole philosophy behind this brand (adding some "tubey" devices) and their incorrect statement about different riaa ... all that along with some technical problems makes me think twice. However, i use 3 turntables and 6 tonearms with different cartridges, and one more phono stage is what i need (i already got 2 different phono stages that i like). I like the idea to connect two cables in one phono stage to switch between mc / mm without changing the cable each time. I like the price tag of the iPhono2. But i know another amazing phono stage for mc/mm at the same price (the JLTi) with the simplest signal path and the ability to change load resistors (rca plugs on the back) with zero capacitance (that i can change only by external cable). |
Chakster: I wanted to add add that if I came off as sounding a bit harsh, I apologize. Of course anyone is free to say what they please about any product and if in fact their is a real problem inside iFi or any other company which is not being addressed then I like anyone else would want to know. It was just the phrasing and the way it was presented that appeared (at least to me) that another agenda was afoot. If I misread you, I stand corrected. |
I did read the whole thing. My point is any company can have a bad batch. A supplier can ship a bad batch of caps as has happened to some very prominent amplifier manufacturers, it is how they handle the the situation that counts. PS Audio had a horrible run with the former Power Plant Premiers but they handled it in great fashion. I don't recall anyone asking "do you still trust the manufacturer?". I would be one of the first to call out a manufacturer if they had failings and refused to stand behind their product. I don't see that in this case. The iPhono 2 is (with a LPS) still one of the best phono stages I've heard regardless of price as it has dispatched some multi kilobuck units in my system. I just found it interesting that you decided to join this particular thread just to spread that link. |
Please read the link i have posted, i only talking about iPhono2, i know that you are fan of all their stuff, but there are people posting about serious problems, not just buzz. Also many owners complaining the unit get very hot while using. Some people posting about bad power supplies. All came from this company. Some units does not work well from the start. I just checked that thread and after some rave comments from people affected by Fremmer’s review and all the hype i’ve come across some very bad comments from other users. Return policy allow people to send them back for full refund, but what about the quality control? |
Chakster: How many is many people? I had had my iPhono 2 buzz a little when it was too close to my PS Audio P5 but that was magnetic coupling in the cable and that was far far less than th coupling I've seen from former SUT's. I grant that the P5 was too close to the iPhono 2 being only one shelf away on my Bassocontinuo Accordeon rack, once place another rack space away, complete silence. "Do you still trust the manufacturer?" This question seems loaded. I have owned up until recently an ITube (1st gen), ITube 2, iPhono (1 gen), iPhono 2, iPurifier (1st gen), iPurifier 2, iUSB, iUSB 3.0, iOne, iDSD BL and a iCan PRO along with an AMR CD77.1, AMR PH 77 and an AMR DP 777 se. I just traded in a couple of no longer used iFi pieces on a PS Audio product. I have found their products beyond excellent or I wouldn't keep buying them. I had to have service on my PH 77 once and my CD 77.1. The PH 77 issue was firmware related and long after that product was out of production. I contacted AMR and described the glitch I was exeperiencing, much to my surprise 2 weeks later a package arrived with a .2 version of the firmware in eeprom form, problem solved. My CD 77.1 had been modified by the former distributor and was having an issue in one of the channels, again AMR handled it with no problem, substituting in the new Tri Core SE capacitors. I would say they they have been one of the better companies and very solid much like the awesome folks over at PS Audio or Pass Labs. These types of open ended questions can impune a companies integrity in the minds of people who know little about the company. "When the warranty expired what would you do?", you ask. I would contact the company like I have many other entities in times past and see what options I have. Since I have personally had two products out of warranty (PH77 and CD77.1 (which was sold to me on this forum defective(the defect was not disclosed to me)) I know first hand they are first rate guys and will handle it expeditiously. |
Many people reports about defective iphono 2 units in this forum: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/heads-up-ifi-phono-2.627504/page-7 Has anyone experienced something like that? The guy bought 3 units from different sources and all are defective. He's not alone with this problem. Do you still trust the manufacturer? When the warranty expired what would you do? |
