I have a mint US Cypress copy, (I'm trying to remember if this one or the Canadian issue was praised the most). I listened to some of it today. While it is "clean & clear", it has that digital, uninvolving edge that kind of turns me off.
Being Thanksgiving and all, and since I always pull out Suzanne Vega's "Solitude Standing" this time of year, ("Fancy Poultry Parts"), I thought I'd make a comparison. They are both from the digital recording age. (SV from 87' - JW from 86').
Playing the JW, I was thinking, very critically, not really enjoying the listen, the experience, the music.
SV, now, this is a totally different listening experience! It sounds great! Nothing edgy, nothing sterile, nothing out of the ordinary. It is in fact an lp I hold in the highest regard, still.
The SV should really be the lp commanding the high prices. Thankfully it is available to us, the ones who love music, for a reasonable price.
I never owned Famous Blue Raincoat when it first came out. I heard it as a demo when I bought my first stereo, in the spring of 86. Anyone heard of Proton?
Anyway, much later on I bought the original cd copy and it became a go to cd for several reasons, one being her voice. More recently I bought the 25th anniversary remaster edition, and to me they didn't do anything bad to the original tracks. A really nice soundstage, the instruments floating in air and of course, that voice.
oops! I should have said the title of the 12" promo in my previous post. "First We Take Manhattan" has a remix and an extended remix that was pressed on Quiex II vinyl.
@Don_c55 I hear what you are saying "There is digital sounding analog, and analog sounding digital! The quality of the end result is not format dependent." and tend to agree. But I don't agree with "Digitalis sounding to the max!" I am not saying that the recording of Famous Blue Raincoat is true analogue bliss. I find that it does have a certain audio quality that keeps it from the top of the pile of the best recordings. I believe that somewhere in the mastering a more analogue character has been lost. I have FBR on the Canadian Attic label as a CD and the LP and also have the 12" 33.3 RPM promotional single on the US Cypress label. The single sounds like crap. This is what leaves me to believe that mastering is the issue with it's audio characteristics. The intent of my post was to rectify the misinformation regarding the recording origins of this album.
"It may be as simple as those that enjoy and cherish this music are drawn into the performance and focus less on any flaws, finding them minor."
That's about as true a statement, to me. The REAL problem with digital recordings was less the recordings than the playback, at least as far as trying to enjoy the music without being distracted by the sound which was quite difficult for me in the early years. Never owned a copy of FBR and don't care to as I am not drawn into the music and had the opportunity to hear the album from a friend before deciding it wasn't my cup of tea after all the accolades. I think it is quite well recorded and that isn't the issue. "Solitude Standing" is the very first CD I purchased in 1987 after hearing the song "Luka" on the radio and being so moved by the lyrics. It is a real masterpiece by a very gifted singer/songwriter/lyricist, couldn't agree more Slaw. I then purchased the album. It really is about the music. Unfortunately some of our favorite music is just not that well recorded or mixed for that matter, we just have to live with it.
I hate to burst you bubble laddies but Famous Blue Raincoat was recorded in analogue. You should have your golden ears checked. http://www.leonardcohenfiles.com/cover1.html I'm anxious to "hear" your comebacks.
Frogman great post(6-14)! Analog vs. digital is NOT as simple as good vs. evil. I really enjoy many early digital recordings made on the 32-track 3M system. The Nightfly and Swing of Delight(Carlos Santana) are perfect examples. Are these perfect recordings... NO! IMO the weakness with early digital recordings is in the frequency extremes. The bass is soft(restricting dynamics) and the treble is sharp, but the midrange can have a real(human)texture even if it's a bit "glassy". FWIW most early digital recording are near awful but there are many exceptions with FBR being one of them.
Thanks so much Frogman. One could live a hundred lives and never explore all there is to explore in jazz and classical serious music . Thank you, Jesus !
The art of a great improviser! Complete believability in how the improvised lines fit with and compliment the soloist; a type of improvised counterpoint and a true conversation. Yes, hard to do and used to be rare from the bass player who, traditionally, had a supportive role; not as much the case any more. Scott LaFaro broke it wide open with his work with Bill Evans. Gomez followed with the same pianist. He is a brilliant musician. Another that comes to mind immediately is Greorge Mraz. I'm sure that there was a chart while the "head" (melody) was being played ; but, after that, totally improvised.
Frogman, I'm listening to Elaine Elias ,the Brazilian pianist, who is about the most lyrical jazz keyboardist I've heard. Her bass backup, Eddie Gomez , supports her beautifully with a very soft and melodic sound, to me a great reminder you don't have to play loud to play good. So soft I'll wager you'd never even hear him on average system. Yet, the conversation is there ! I am guessing it must be very hard to do this ? Makes me wonder if he's improvising or its a chart.
IMO, FBR can hardly be considered an example of "early digital recording" as defined by the grainy, edgy and sterile sound of most early digital recordings. I can understand why it could be considered to have an "artificial" sound, but the two samples that I have heard on my system have sounded clean, tonally fairly well balanced, not grainy at all and with good and impressive sound staging. Easily identified as a digital recording, but not in an offensive way; definitely not "analog" sounding. But, so what? It is a multi-tracked studio recording; it will, by definition, be "artificial" sounding. Don't misunderstand what I am trying to say; I much prefer good analog recordings to (even) good digital recordings. The point I tried to make is simply that the sonics of FBR, artificiality and all, do not detract from the enjoyment of the music; if one likes the music. Personally, I would much prefer to listen to well crafted songs and superior singing with sonics that are less than perfect than music that, for my tastes, is not on the same level, but with perfect sonics. BTW, FBR is hardly a favorite record of mine.
I love great sounding recordings and great ear candy, but the music has to come first (for me); and the sonics a not so close second. Besides, "analog" can have its own set of issues that can make it deviate from the sound of live music. I think that the term "analog" can be in danger of being used as some sort of imaginary notion of what constitutes reality as much as "digital" can be. I have many analog recordings that deviate from the sound of live even more (if one can quantify these things) than many digital recordings with their "analog" overly ripe bottom end, closed-in highs and confused soundstaging. I will admit that, given the choice, I would usually take the sonic problems of inferior analog over those of inferior digital. But, "analog" sound is not the end-all and with most pop or rock recordings there is much more latitude in deviation from reality than with Classical or acoustic jazz recordings where the problems with digital make that deviation much more obvious; if one knows what the real thing truly sounds like.
Yes they have Viridian, and IMO 3 out of 4 'philes do not know real music does not have that hard leading edge that they believe is clarity /resolution .
Frogman: Referring to your post on12/02/14: ..for me it's the artificial sound. There's not a hint of ANALOG here.
My question is:, how can such a well regarded lp, sound so artificial/almost digital in it's overall presentation?/ then, the majority of people here, poo.poo. my, or any disagreement with the majority.
I don't know how many times I can listen to it.. and not come to the same result! It has ARTIFICIAL sound!!!!
Jennifer Warnes voice and style of music is much more comparable to Linda Ronstadt then Suzanne Vega. As for the sound quality of "FBR" it has to be in the top 5% of the close to 1000 recordings I own. It's not a warm hazy/lazy analog type of recording but even with it's slight "sharpness" the content of the music is not diminished.
"Famous Blue Raincoat" is a wonderful album -- good singer, good musicians, tasteful arrangements and good sound.
Some trivia, "Tom's Diner" is the diner on the UWS that's featured in "Seinfield". The song was also the music used to develop the MP3 algorithm. The dead actor is William Holden.
I agree with Martykl word for word. Beyond that, I don't quite understand what is being discussed here. While we can disagree about wether FBR is the best sounding record ever or not, or wether it sounds better than SS or not, I can't for the life of me understand how, using any reasonable standard, it's SOUND quality can get in the way of the enjoyment of the music; if one likes the music. Wether one likes the music is an entirely different matter and a very personal one. This distinction sometimes gets lost in these discussions.
As far as the music goes, I find Leonard Cohen's songs to be much better crafted; his lyrics can stand on their own as poetry. In the case of FBR, we have a singer singing someone else's songs while Vega sings her own compositions. So, from that standpoint, her renditions can come across as more personal. However, I find Warnes to be an infinitely better singer with a much wider technical and artistic scope; IMO.
Regardless of whether you like 'Famous Blue Raincoat,' and you probably won't if you're not fond of Leonard Cohen, it's worth having for the Stevie Ray Vaughan intro to 'First We Take Manhattan.'
Not a huge Leonard Cohen fan but I do like Jennifer Warnes quite a bit. There are songs on FBR that I like and others not so much so for me a mixed bag. Some of the songs I don't like seem to have a 50's Beat generation vibe. Prefer The Hunter and The Well. As for sound quality I think the last 24k gold issues of all three sound excellent.
Interesting to read your opinion on FBR. I've always found Jennifer's, The Hunter, to be far superior both sonically as well as material. I've never fully understood the attraction to FBR.
Leonard Cohen's music is definitely not for every taste and you could certainly argue that Warnes voice is too pretty to do it justice. Personally, I think it's a terrific (and overall great sounding) record, but I'd also be the first to sympathize with those who don't dig it. It's one of those love it/hate it things musically, but sonically I'm surprised that anyone would find it wanting. Maybe the bass gets just slightly ripe here and there, but overall I find the SQ absolutely top notch.
Wow. I am in complete agreement with everything you said. Love Suzanne Vega. I heard Famous Blue Raincoat praised for years, and finally bought it. Don't think it sounds that great, and I didn't connect with the music.
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