Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Turntable working on and off

What made you think there was a problem with the “band” in the first place?

I didn't think there was a problem, necessarily, but it was suggested on this forum that replacing it might help since the original was getting old. So I went with that and got a new one.

For example, if the motor is running but platter is stationary, you might think there was a problem with the “belt”. Was that the case? If motor doesn’t run, then there’s no reason to suspect that the root cause of the platter not moving has to do with the belt. So what did you observe?

Yes, once I removed the belt, I could see the spindle that the belt sits on moving.

So - lift the platter, nothing's moving. Remove the belt, see the spindle moving. Put the belt back on, spindle, belt, and inner platter are all moving. Put the outer platter back on and it's playing.

I don't know if something is holding the inner platform from turning? I don't understand why removing the belt and then putting it back on makes it turn.

Either motor is dying (losing power) or like you say there’s friction somewhere that the motor only intermittently overcomes. But if records sound normal in terms of tempo, then I would either doubt friction hypothesis or look for an intermittent cause. Take the whole thing apart. Clean and relubricate the bearing. Check that platter spins freely. Make sure belt fits snugly around pulley and platter. Etc.

What Lew said. Next time, give the platter a shove to assist it starting up. 

"I've gotten lazy about picking up the tonearm when an LP ends, and have let it stay on the run-out for a while a bunch of times."

Instructions | THE Q UP

The primary issue here is that you not only have a Pro-Ject turntable, but a 10-year-old Pro-Ject turntable. You've gotten all you're going to get out of it.

@yogiboy - interesting piece of gear there! thank you. Not sure how long I'll stick w/ this current turntable and what I may replace it with, but good to know that there's a solution for fully manual ones.

@jeffreylee   Why is having a Pro-Ject TT a primary issue? Are they known for not lasting long? They have universally excellent reviews, so not sure why you’re making that statement.

@lewm ​​@noromance the inner platter is not spinning freely! So - will lift it out and lubricate it - I think?

lewm you say "Take the whole thing apart. Clean and relubricate the bearing. Check that platter spins freely. Make sure belt fits snugly around pulley and platter. Etc." - I have no experience working on TT's. I surely understand now that the inner platter needs to spin freely. I do believe that's the issue and as you said, the motor intermittently overcomes it. Sometimes a push to the platter will help it along, other times not.

@kbmr As a person who has occasionally written turntable reviews for Discogs, I can tell you that reviews can only get you so far. The issue with any gear is a how it holds up in the long term, and most reviews are done in a fairly short period of time. It's unlikely that anything will go wrong.

But the sole Pro-Ject turntable I reviewed had a hum from day one and nothing got rid of it. Eventually one of the cartridge clips just fell off one day, which was likely the issue. It didn't seem to be an inherently bad product, but it was not constructed well.

If you google "pro-ject turntable problems" you'll get pages of results, many of which are identical to your issues. Motors stopping.

@jeffreylee thank you.

a quick google does indeed reveal a ton of complaints.

Silly me, I had considered that reviewers would know and comment upon a company's track record regarding longevity.

I do like the sound of my table, and I can understand why it was well reviewed, but your point is well taken.

I have a "good" system - entry-level audiophile gear, and I want a turntable that will last, to match the other gear.

recommendations? technics? rega? music hall?

Or Linn or VPI.

@kbmr  It all comes down to your budget, and one man’s entry level is another’s top of the line.

I have owned, and own, a lot of nice turntables, but my Clearaudio Concept will always be my primary spinner. I love it, although the light tonearm means you can’t use low compliance cartridges.

You can find Concepts used, or demo models, for decent prices, but if you’re looking to keep it in the $500-700 range for a new turntable it gets pretty generic. It seems to me that, in that price range, you’re basically gambling that the turntable you buy was put together on a day when the assembly line worker was in a good mood.

I’ve no problem buying used gear from reputable dealers. The Music Room services everything they sell, are excellent shippers, and the customer service is very good. They always have turntables. The classifieds on Audiogon have also proven reliable over the years.

@jeffrylee - thank you for putting me onto the Music Room. I did not know about them.

And for your other suggestions and comments.

@kbmr You need to oil the bearing. 
See here:
Pro-Ject_Turntable_Maintenance-rules-EN.pdf (project-audio.com)

@noromance Excellent! I just ordered the Pro-Ject: Lube It Silent Groove Lubricant Oil.

This is the issue, I believe. And hopefully, the solution.

Thank you.

As others have said, you need to clean and lube the TT. I'm sure the bearing has a ton of grime in there after 10 years. I clean and lube mine every few months. 

You may also have a power supply that is going out, Pro-Ject makes a "high power" replacement, it's like $50. 

Of course there is a lot of people complain about TT issues. This is an entry level TT, that is sold almost everywhere, and it touted for being someones first TT. Most people have no idea how much work playing records is. That analog things need more maintenance and love. My first TT was a Debut Carbon EVO, loved that TT, kept it for about a year before upgrading to a much better one, that cost over 3x the EVO. Now my kid has the EVO, we are sharing out love of music and records. 

Don't knock entry level components, they are the gateway, and a great place to learn.

@mswale - that's terrific. Thank you!

I've been searching online and on YouTube for good tutorials on how to care for a TT, but not coming up w/ anything too good. It's all about how to set up a TT.

For example, I don't know to properly clean the grime from the bearing, as well as knowing what type of regular maintenance should be done.

Can you point me to an article, site or video that will fill me in?

Yes, this entry level TT sounds really good to me, and has sparked my vinyl listening and collecting a lot. I will upgrade when the time is right, but as always there is a cue of things and projects to spend $ on, and a new TT is not top of the list now. But, I appreciate what you said. I upgraded the cartridge about a year ago and love it.

@kbmr 

Not sure if there are any places that show how to clean and maintain TT's. First get your supplies...

1. q-tips or other swabers to clean out the bearing and other little areas

2. Glass cleaner, furniture cleaner, isopropyl alcohol.

3. 2-3 microfiber towels, maybe some paper towels

4. compressed air

Remove the TT cover, put it aside

remove the main platter, put aside,

remove belt, try not to touch it much with your hands, put it aside

remove sub platter, put aside

Spray the TT deck off with compressed air. Then take a MF towel, spray with cleaner, clean the entire deck.

see, that little hole where the sub plater went into? blow some compressed air in there, then take your swab, dip in the iso, clean that area. Might have to do it 2-3 times till the swab is clean. Then use a naked clean swab to get anything left over. Blow in more compressed air. Then use the paper towel with some iso on it to clean the sub platter shaft, also the sides where the belt goes. You can also clean off the belt gear on the motor.

Use a little bit of lube on the shaft, and a little bit of lube on a swab, swab the bearing. Insert the sub plater. It might hang in the air when lubed, I "spin" it on, it should spin very freely, and slowly go down into position. 

Reinstall belt, try not to paw it too much 

Clean the platter on both sides, reinstall

Take the compressed air, and blow out the tonearm bearings, try to put a tube on the compressed air, to get into the little areas. 

Take your glass cleaner, spray the other MF towel, clean the dust cover, reinstall

Then check all the settings on the tonearm. Anti-skate might be off, as well as tracking force. If you haven't in a while, might as well clean the needle. A blast of compressed air is good, but not too close, and do it from the back forward. Then use your needle brush. 

Re-lube the bearing every few months. But always clean it first. 

@mswale thank you! Great, easy, simple directions. Fantastic.

You've helped me to up my game, and I appreciate it.

I will do all of this as soon as the lube I ordered arrives. Will be here in a day or two.

You rock!

@msale - I want to thank you, again for writing out those directions for cleaning the turntable.

I finally got to it last night.

OMGosh, I went through 10 or so Q-Tips in cleaning it out. But it's good now, and after I put the fresh lubricant on and placed the inner platter, it spun and spun freely. Terrific.

Actually, I had realized that just taking it out a couple of times and re-placing it is what had freed it up enough to work for a little while. That's why it was working on and off. So - hopefully the motor hasn't been too stressed and it should run for a good while. I have plenty of other things to spend money on rather than a new TT at this point. And it sounds damn good.

I was befuddled.

You set me straight. And all is cost me was $32 to buy the proper lubricant. Probably didn't even need to spend that amount.

Much appreciated.