Avalons need no or almost no toe in.
People have to open up there perspective. You Always need to get for the best sound possible. This is only possible when you try more different options.
In the past I never heard a set with Avalon and MIT what was realistic in my point of view. I have said many times to people that a violin sounds so much different in sound.
The most irritating thing is how it is projected. A voice and also instruments are so much smaller and more direct in real. I am often surprised that people don't hear the weak individual focus with Avalon and MIT. They should listen to a violin in real. Believe me it is much smaller.
When you change the MIT by Audioquest cables you enter a different world. But one which is so much more precise. Since I do the comparison between the cables I never heard a person who said the MIT is better. Or you must be f....deaf! |
Since I do Professional roomacoustic ajustments, the old rules are not there anymore. I can even get a stunning sound in the worst room in acoustics you can imagine.
In the time I sold Avalon. We mostly sold it with MIT. With the knowdledge today I have proven that it is the biggest bullshit on earth that it is the best match.
I have proven with new Audioquest cables that it outperforms MIT with ease!
Why? Becaue you need to understand the properties of Avalon and also from MIT. Then you understand why they are not the best match.
They both give a wide and deep stage. But they have the same weak point in sharpness and realistic proportion of instruments and voices. They both make the stage too big in proportion togheter.
What does Audioquest better with Avalon compared to MIT?
The dynamics in the low frew go deeper, better timing and you hear more layers of the lowest freq. The mid freq. are a lot more open. Voices and instruments get a far more realistic proportion. For the first time you get an intimate stage with the Avalon speakers. Instruments and voices are so much better touchable. There is more resolution in the high freq. as well and more decay ( also in the right and left corner behind the speakers). Even blacks are a lot better as well.
When people don't open there eyes or even better there ears. You still would think MIT is the best combi. It is based on f... nothing. How stuppid you can be to believe that words are the truth!
Hearing is believing, and that is why the best and most convincing sound Always will win. That is the thing I love most in audio. :) |
Bo, I find your assessment of Eidolons unusual. Could you describe your rooms length and width, speaker distance from front wall (the wall behind the speakers), and the amount of toe in?
Your priority of wire material over actual cable design is, wellÂ…whatever, it's an interesting opinion. |
In my experience Cardas works better with Avalon compared to MIT. Because they have those properties which an Avalon is not that good at. Avalon ( I sold it for over 6 years) has a wide an deep stage. But within this stage the individual focus of instruments and voices it not thar sharp. Cardas is very good at individual focus in instruments and voices. You get a better endresult. |
Still using Cardas, per my Eidolon and Eidolon Diamond.
I don't believe in wires at all....well that's an overstatement, I play with wires in moderation.
Start with a baseline of Canare Starquad cheapies,
if the system doesn't sound good and you absolutely need esoteric wires with voodoo boxes of choke and caps or alien material to compensate, something's wrong. |
It is only copper. For example Monitor Audio Platinum is wired inside with pure silver. They use the best WBT connectors worth of 450 dollar.
It is not that special what they use. |
Avalon speakers are internally wired with cardas wire (at least the old models like ascent, radian), don't know if the still using it? |
The primaluna gear is outclassed by your speakers and cables.
Consider a preamp with some voltage regulation, and a power amp with some gain stage regulation. Regulation is conducive to warmth and sound stage stability.
The Chinese "classic" designs won't cut it with Avalon speakers due to the need for high current stability (they are not efficient)
-Avalon owner for the past 18 years |
I prefer Cardas over MIT. I did not say that Cardas would not work with Avalon. Audioquest is focussed on all the different parts were you Judge a cabel for more complete compared to Cardas.
Silver is in my opinion very important for the absolute sound. I do not say you should only need silver. Silver can give you more air around voices and instruments. This is an essential part of the 3D image were I often talk about. Same about the extra decay.
Avalon is a speaker what can give a deep and wide stage. But within the stage it is not a brand who can give a very sharp individual focus. So you need cables, sources and amps to solve this. When you use MIT, you use the same properties. So at the end you still have not a sharp individual focus of instruments and voices. It is that simple. It was very easy to get Avalon to a much higher level with Audioquest cables. For the owners it was clear why it is more complete. |
Bo1972, I love you man, You are a riot!, I may very well be the only member to undestand you, vicdamone has very legitimate points he is sharring with you, his original post to you is correct, mit cables were suppose to be used with spectral equipment!, the very same system all of you are talking about I have vast exsperience with, however, you are correct, mit cables and cardas cables is a mistake for such fine speakers as the Avalon Edilon speakers, I know what I would use on these speakers, I do not want to get into this crazy mess of whats best for the avalons. |
My opinion is that Audioquest works very well with Avalon. Superior to MIT. I dislike the political stories told to customers that Avalon works the best with MIT. It had been told at many shows in the past. It is based on nothing. For me it is essential that audio needs to be more open and honnest. I want people to get the best quality for the money they spend. I have proven that MIT is by far not the best. Even with Avalon speakers ( I have sold them for over 6 years) Magazines need to stop political talks about audio. Customers deserve to get more quality for the money they have spend. |
Bol, I find it odd that the original poster was questioning the use of a pair of tube mono blocks with his speakers and your first comment was to put down MIT cables. Why?
As I said, I respect your conclusions even though, as in the past, the bulk of your experiences with products you do not market seem to be very brief, anecdotal, and/or second hand in nature. Along with home entertainment and recording you're now including live sound reinforcement which is so far out of the context of two channel home audio I have to ask. Why?
In the specific context of Spectral connectivity between their components and transducers I would defer to the designers unquestionable experience and their sonic goal which includes custom design cabling. Since neither you nor I have any extensive experience with Spectral products and since the original poster has no interest in either, I'll defer and continue to respect your choice of colorfully jacketed cable to be as you have described.
The manufacture of my speaker system uses Cardas hook up wire throughout as well as Cardas termination which makes cable selection a no brainer and a brand the original poster is currently using. |
Cardas has a totally different caractere in sound and also in image. Cardas has much more a sharp focus of instruments and voices compared to MIT. The sound is also much more involving. The question is what is the truth? I listend in 16 years of time many times to sets with Spectral and Avalon. For me this has nothing to do with the sound and image in real. A violin for example sounds so much more clinical on Spectral with Avalon than in real. A very good friend of mine had a small concert room with a Steinway wing for 65 people. Here I learned how small instruments and voices are in proportion. This is what I call; intimate sound. I was pulled into the music cause of the small intimate sound. MIT makes it bigger in proportion. And what it does is that the connection to the music is less involving and less intimate.
When instruments and voices become big it is one of the most stuppid and ittitating things at shows. These people should listen to music in real. Audioquest is also superior in timing and even in resolution compared to MIT. In one year of time I won all battles against MIT. You would be a fool to choose for less resolution, a less sharp individual focus, less air around voices and instruments, less layers in the low freq and less control. I invite all people with MIT cables for a A-B comparison against Audioquest....... |
Woodworker, I'm driving my older Eidolons with a pair of Bob Carver VTA 180s.
Their actual output power is questionable but they do a very good job of driving the Eidolons. The Carvers have a 2 ohm tap (I use the 4 ohm) which is not common on tube amplifiers.
I did try driving them with a 70 watt Ultralinear MFA D70 Stereo amplifier. This combination worked well in a smaller room but seemed a bit strained in the larger room.
Refer to the Avalon speaker location instructions as a starting point. Take your time in finding the location that provides the best staging in your room. 1/4 inch movements can be dramatic so again, take your time and listen. My room is large, I don't toe them in at all.
Once you've found the best location it's important to get your Visions on the cones and off the floor. I used some double stick carpet tape cut to the size of a quarter to hold them in place. The bass definition will improve immediately once they're off the floor
I am also using a Cardas Golden Ref loom.
I was on the audio merry go round for years constantly listening to the system and not the music. Once I stepped up to the Eidolon / Cardas combination and back to tube amplification I haven't had the desire to change a thing. IMO your there, have fun. |
Keith Johnson and Richard Fryer have been in business for 38 years. Their list of amplification design innovations is legendary. They do not seek out product reviews or advertise full page and glossy back cover adds in the audio press. The fact is they have a monumental amount of audio experience respected by the audio and recording industries.
Spectral has a well know system approach to amplification and to what they consider neutrality is sound. Unlike your choice of generic cable theirs is a proprietary design in conjunction with a specific cable manufacture. In this case their results have been lauded by their piers, customers and even the audio press.
While I respect your conclusions they are still subjective and as such are only better to you and the customers your able to convince. I don't doubt that your hearing a difference in presentation using your choice of cabling but that difference is still subjective and a matter of your taste and has little to do with the accuracy of recording the live event which is what Spectral design is all about.
I'm a working musician. In my small in home studio I have a pair of Avalon Acoustics Monitors powered by Hypex nCore kit amplifiers. Like other recording (not post production) studios the presentation is ultra reveling and transparent. It's a playback system that I simply can't listen to for extended entertainment. Audio applications vary depending on their intended use. With that in mind the word best can take on many differences.
For those who may be interested I suggest reading the Spectral Bulletin 9501 regarding Spectral MI-500 interconnects and MH-750 Speaker Cable in detail.
at http://www.spectralaudio.com
And below.
"A System Approach
The most sacred principle of the Spectral design philosophy is our central concern with the integration of the music reproduction system. Each audio component, however exquisitely designed and crafted, is but one link in a chain. How each interacts with preceding and successive components in the chain is of the utmost significance for the final listening experience. Spectral was the first component manufacturer to collaborate with a High End cable company to achieve a totally optimized, integrated component system. Our path breaking work with MIT (Music Interface Technologies) in developing phase-compensated interconnects and speaker cables is a first in the audio field. The same overriding concern with fully integrated systems motivated Spectral to move quickly to the forefront of innovative, High End digital front-end design. And it is why our new preamplifier and amplifier designs like the DMC-30 and the DMA-150 are optimized to work together and to derive superior performance from the transducers our customers choose."
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I rencently sold a Audioquest Redwood to a client with a Spectral poweramp? Who says; the MIT is a better match? You only will find out in a A-B battle. It is that simple, after comparing you know. You go for the best endresults. Why Is Audioquest better compared to MIT? Is it clear? Yesss it is. There is a lot more air around voices and instruments. Blacks are a lot better, so instruments and voices are better focussed. In the low freq. speed is better, and you hear more different layers. This has nothing to do with taste. THIS IS ALL ABOUT FACTS. What do we need; We need open and honnest tests in magazines between Audioquest and MIT in one test for example. People who work in audio should more focus on the beste quality. And not focus on what is told. At the end it is all about the results what it really does. |
Bo, before putting a product down get the story correct. If I'm not mistaken, Spectral suggests the use of MIT cabling with their electronics. Spectral electronics, MIT cabling and Avalon Acoustics speakers were used in conjunction and demonstrated at shows and dealers marketed as 2C3D (two channel three dimensional sound).
When set up properly this system could easily convey the effect of sound staging in higher end stereo audio. The upside of this demonstration, once heard, many hobbyist managed to gain a similar amount of staging from their own systems regardless of cable and speaker selection. It also showcased Avalons goals of time and phase accuracy and its affect on the overall coherence possible with their dynamic speaker systems.
As a multigenerational Avalon customer it's my experience that Cardas Cable is a far more popular cable choice among Avalon owners.
Once again what might seem superior to you Bo is simply subjectivity and may not be the goal of another user. It's most certainly not bullshit.
Chill the phuck out. |
I sold Avalon for over 6 years of time. Many people say that MIT is the best combination. This is the biggest bullshit ever. We did compare different MIT cables with Audioquest cables. These were superior. Audio needs to become more open and honnest to customers. Stop telling customers bullshit stories. In the last year I did a lot of comparing with Audioquest against MIT ( I sold it for over 6 years of time)'In every single part the Audioquest cables beats the MIT cables. MIT needs to improve there cables fast or they will be far behind. |
Primaluna is great solidly built gear i liked the sound |
Why don't you hook it up and tell us how it sounds? |
