Trust your ears - this hobby is for you to enjoy and there are differences in sound from different components (and ultimately systems).
If you enjoy experiment - rolling tubes is an option. And if you like the Rogue sound better, I think you'd be better off experimenting with the Rouge unit versus buying the ARC unit to experiment on.
I've heard Rogue and ARC and my experience is Rogue is excellent value and ARC is excellent. I'd consider it a win to prefer Rogue so you can spend money on music or libations for when your listening to music. (It's your system and you get to live with it.)
Enjoy your journey.
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I don’t have any tube suggestions, but if it was me I’d try another set of tubes before making a final decision. Maybe try calling ARC and see what they recommend given what you’re looking for, but you’ll probably get some good recommendations here. If not, you should start a new thread and I’m sure you’ll get a multitude of recommendations. Just make sure you include how much you’re willing to spend. There are also some dealers that are reputed to have good knowledge (Kevin Deal at Upscale Audio maybe?). Anyway, best of luck.
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If you enjoy experiment - rolling tubes is an option. And if you like the Rogue sound better, I think you'd be better off experimenting with the Rouge unit versus buying the ARC unit to experiment on.
Yep roll the tubes on the Rogue.
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Dragged home a LS25 MKII when I had my former ModWright SWL 9.0 SE. I preferred the ModWright in my system. What I missed from the ARC was it had nowhere near the PRaT of the little ModWright. Because of the comparison of the two, I sold my SWL and bought a new MW LS 36.5. The LS 25MKII just didn’t do it for me; it was nice but too laid back and a little cold sounding.
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Don’t do quick comparisons. Listen to one preamp for at least 2-3 days then switch.
As to tubes, when I had my LS25 I liked EH better than Sovteks and tried Amperex as well. What tubes you have in it now and how many hours in?
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@audphile1
I agree.
I would go on to get to know them so well that your subconscious chooses. Long relaxed sessions, for days with one or the other. So… when listening to music (not to the system)… an idea bubbles up that you would like to hear the other one. Over time you will settle down to the one that is more satisfying.
Commonly, one system is “flashier”… so your technical analysis says that one is better… but in reality the one that gets the gestalt can be more musical and much more satisfying.
You are correct about Audio Research not being tubie. They have always tried to balance high levels of details and the midrange bloom and realistic detailed realistic bass.
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Thanks all for the replies.
@overthemoon
I have thought about some new tubes for the Perseus in the past. You've just reminded me! Like I said, it would be great to keep the fullness and richness - bloom I guess it is - with just a touch more clarity. It could be that the Brimars are just getting a bit long in the tooth. Honestly, I don't know how many hours are on them. Although, doing a little research it seems that they are supposed to be on the warm and full side to begin with. Brent Jesse's website is a good read.
I will reach out to ARC and see what they say.
More listening to come. Having a good time with the comparison!
Thanks again
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@audphile1
That's a great question. I'll have to open it up and take a look. I was too anxious to get it in the system and start listening and didn't open it up! According to the previous owner they should be stock. No idea how many hours.
Thanks
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The LS25 MK II uses 6H30 tubes, there isn't a lot of options as far as tube rolling.
I use 6H30-DR tubes in mine but these have gotten hard to find and are big $$.
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@pkatsuleas stock tubes in LS25 are at end of life or near it. Replace them. Try the EH 6H30 Gold Pin. Upscale Audio will matched pairs at no extra cost.
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The Rogue preamps of that era have a really nice full bodied sound, like a warm sweater on a cool fall day. The Athena and Hera were the top of the line back then, and imo were their best offerings by a SIGNIFICANT margin. These preamps use 6H30 and glean its advantages (linearity, detail, speed, bandwidth), but also retain all of that rich full-bodied dynamic sound - and then some!
The Hera II has a LOT of gain, so keep that in mind. It’s not the best match for highly sensitive speakers + amps. Athena and Hera I have more typical gain levels. The gain switch on these units works by cutting signal, NOT noise, so it doesn’t really help the Hera II’s issue. That said if your system matches it, the Hera II is the best of the 3. But even the Athena is still great, and a super value when they come up used. A modern ARC pre like Ref 6 beats it for transparency and clarity, but for the money - damn these give you a lot.
The current Rogue RP-X series preamps have a different sonic character imo. Sometimes I just have to scratch my head lol.
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@audphile1
Yes, you are most likely correct. Not sure if new tubes are going to give me the warmth and bloom I'm looking for though. We'll see.
Thanks
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@mulveling
You don't see the Athena or Hera for sale often. If I did I might grab one. I have been very curious about the RP series. There was one local that I almost bought but snoozed on it. But, it sounds like you are saying that the newer Rogue pres don't have that full bodied, warm sweater sound. I like full bodied for sure. A touch more detail would be appreciated. I think I am going to try some new tubes.
Thanks
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@pkatsuleas totally worth trying the new EH gold pins in the ARC.
I am not familiar with your Rogue components but I did own the RP1 paired with ST100 and then upgraded to RP5. Believe it or not, I actually preferred the RP1. In either case the RP preamps and the ST100 were very quiet as far as tube components are concerned but sounded slightly dry. I wouldn’t call that sound solid state like. The biggest value was the ST100 amp. It’s really good especially considering the price.
I eventually moved on to the solid state Pass gear and never looked back.
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You don't see the Athena or Hera for sale often. If I did I might grab one. I have been very curious about the RP series. There was one local that I almost bought but snoozed on it. But, it sounds like you are saying that the newer Rogue pres don't have that full bodied, warm sweater sound. I like full bodied for sure. A touch more detail would be appreciated. I think I am going to try some new tubes.
Thanks
Yes, I am saying exactly that :)
I had a RP9 and it was more detailed than even the Athena & Hera, so I'll give it credit for that.
The 12AU7 in the Perseus has a lot of options for rolling, and should have a big impact on sound. I'm not a big fan of 12AU7's in general so don't have as much experience rolling there as with 12AX7. But there should be parallels, and in that case the ribbed-plate Telefunkens or silver plates Cifte/Mazda are top recommendations for detail, clarity, dynamics. For a cheaper and easier to find tube on the "detailed, clean" side, the Sylvania 6189 and Philips ECG 6189 are quite good. And from modern Russian production, their Tung-Sol small tubes are a great choice in this vein of sonic character.
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Also - I’ve used sets of both EH Gold and Sovtek 6H30 in both the ARC Ref 6 preamp and the Rogue Athena and Hera, going back several years. Not a lot of difference in these tubes, either way. The EH Golds are maaaaaybe a hair warmer. Like 1 - 2% max. Not enough to change your opinion of a preamp. The gold pins are sometimes a bit thicker and grip better in a loose socket, so there’s that. Never noticed much effect from cryo treatments, either. You don’t need to stress about tube-rolling in 6H30 based preamps, unless you want to try the 1970s/80s "DR" supertubes - and good luck finding matched sets of that 😶
Upscale Audio’s Platinum grade matched sets of either Sovteks or EH has always been good enough for me. I have an Athena here and honestly forget which tubes are in it - maybe I'll take a peek now lol.
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Agree with @mulveling the EH gold are slightly warmer. But the key here is to get a fresh set of tubes and eliminate the possibility of old worn out tubes impacting the comparison.
Also don’t forget what I mentioned earlier - give each preamp a few days of critical listening, let it sink in. Sometimes the changes aren’t appreciated with a quick A/B.
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