I'm the owner of Prana Distribution. Idler-21st, (who began this thread) is the owner of an idler turntable company called Semper Sonus based in Portugal. He's a very talented engineer who makes a very interesting turntable. During the pandemic we did something we have never done. We ordered a product without first auditioning it. We ordered 4 of these tables out of excitement for an idler table that was engineered from the ground up (not based on a vintage table) that was also somewhat attainable. (it can be had, with an arm for around $10k)
We're still excited about it.
We do have some internal issues to work out with Paolo over the coming weeks which will hopefully quell the need to air our business frustrations in a public forum. I understand his frustration and anger and likely feeling as though this was his only recourse. I hope to amend that premise. We've been in business in one form or another for 14 plus years. We've managed to maintain good relationships with many manufacturers for most of those years.
I want to publicly apologize to Paolo for not being a better communicator where this instance was concerned. I hope you take a look at his table. They're really quite something. We don't have them on our website yet, (I wanted to sort some things out with Paolo first) but you can find them here
Regarding our addresses. Our LLC is listed at an office in Cambridge. Something that was common practice in my previous professional life, which I just kept up. We have retail square footage in Gloucester, MA and in Medford, MA...both by appointment only. There is another local site slated for 2024.
Well, that was interesting. Good luck to all parties.
Question to @idler-21st - surely the point of an idler drive is to provide as much torque as possible to give it that idler drive?
At the same time, the right amount of torque provided – i.e. the absolute minimum required at all times – is continually adjusted based on feedback from the current levels required by the motor.
You want enough torque to keep the speed constant, regardless of load variations. However, having that, there’s no point in feeding more torque, it would only potentially create additional vibration or noise.
So, speed is monitored several hundreds of time / second, and when a speed deviation is found, more (or less) torque is applied.
It’s important to note that this kind of speed control is very different from the crude systems employed by manufacturers in the 80’s ("Quartz control" do you remember ?). Algorithms are now much more sophisticated (courtesy of the tremendous computing power available today), and they try to "approach" the correct speed smoothly, without over or under-shooting.
Why would anyone want a turntable that whenever there is an issue the manufacturer goes on a public forum to cast aspersions - airing his dirty laundry in public so to speak.
Best to avoid issues like this - buy a different turntable - plenty out there without the aggro.
I also note that one member on this forum who purchased this turntable had multiple build quality issues and ultimately sent it back -
All was well–the table sounded great (long REVIEW if you are interested). Except it wasn’t–there were a few lingering fit and finish issues which were not successfully resolved, all a byproduct of the pandemic and the harsh realities of global shipping, and they were bugging me. As an “early adopter” I anticipated a few bugs would need to be ironed out but despite lots of time, effort and good will on all sides, the problems remained. The TE-2 sounded great, but ultimately Paulo and I agreed that the table should go back to Portugal for replacement and upgrade of some key parts and then on to another client for further evaluation.
"Well, guess my due dilligence wasn't that good...
Be warned !"
Need I point out that those words go beyond wondering whether anyone had prior experience with the company? Anyway, I hope this all has a happy ending for you and Prana. Looks like you have an interesting turntable there to which I am favorably disposed as a Lenco fan, vertical idler wheel and all.
An idler turntable is when you have an idler wheel between the motor pulley and platter ( hence the name "idler" ).
According to your diagram on your website the Sempersonus drives the platter directly off the motor, the urethane wheel is the pulley. This a rim drive turntable, albeit the inside rim of the platter.
Yes, not an idler wheel in sight ! But there’s no misleading blurb in the website:
motion is supplied by a BLDC motor, epicyclically driving the aluminum platter through an urethane drive wheel
SPECIFICATIONS
Epicyclic drive
What I set out to do was to imagine what an idler could be like today, freed from the limitations of 60 years ago.
And today you don’t really need an idler. Now you can get a motor to run at 150rpm, smoothly, silently, cheaply enough and you can switch speeds electronically.
In the 60’s you couldn’t have that (at least in a consumer product), hence the need for an idler wheel and the added mechanical complexity.
And today you don’t really need an idler. Now you can get a motor to run at 150rpm, smoothly, silently, cheaply enough and you can switch speeds electronically.
You obviously have no idea how idler turntables work.
The pulley size determines the speed of the platter - the idler wheels are just a transfer function - you can run any size idler wheel and the speed doesn't change.
The idler wheel really is a low pass filter to reduce noise transfer from motor to platter. It has nothing to do with motor speed or platter speed.
Okay lets not drag Constantine at Atelier 13 through the mud. He is a first class guy and @audiopranashould have just linked to @idler-21stwebsite.
I am going to say this is that I would not buy a thing from either of these two companies.
Clearly @audiopranawas looking to clear their name and @idler-21stshould have been more discreet and contacted them direct.
Not questioning ethics and integrity just class and dignity at this point with these two.
I have personal experience with Constantine at Atelier 13 and I can attest to his ethics, integrity, class, dignity and knowledge. He has my utmost respect and I have dealt with a lot audio companies through the years. He is one of three that I continue to deal with.
from the link at the whatsthebest forum linked above , evidently some folks have had problems with Fred Crane & Prana Distributon!
"WARNING!!!!
Hate to have to do this gents but do not do business with Mr Fred Crane and Prana Distribution. Bought a pair of AGD Vivace monos from him a month or so ago and he has vanished basically with a story about his daughter being ill....I originally bought into it in good faith then saw a Yelp review from 2020 from a couple he screwed over.
Then I reached out to Darren O’neil listed above in Nevada.......Well lets just say the good Mr. Crane and Prana Distribution have ripped off a whole slew of industry people and end customers like myself for well north of $1 Million USD......So I don’t feel so bad and thankfully I can easily absorb the loss like many of you fortunate ilk on this website.
But if you see him dumping gear or advertising gear at realy nice prices, run the other direction.....
Darren O’Neil plans to post to this thread to confirm what I have just shared. (I kinda hammered him for not doing it already as his battle with Prana has been going on for months) . Could have saved some people some grief.
WARNING!!!
I would like to put up a Very big Warning to everyone out there. Please do not send Fred Crane from Prana Distribution any money! He has turned into a very large thief. he has stolen 100’s of thousands of dollars from people out there. Us included
We have taken over the Destination Audio line so if you have questions about Destination Audio products
please contact Destination Audio USA or Darrin at Audio Limits (702)299-0567
Do not contact Fred Crane from Prana Distribution
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