Hi I have an all Krell system: Krell 28c, Krell KCT and Krell 450amps. What can I use on my cdp to add musicality and lessen digital brightness. I am using Epiphany currently and might try the Anaconda Vx for my system needs to be more musical. Thanks
The DCCA pc will tame brightness and add more musicality, naturality and neutrality.This are very consistent cables. I tried them with 3 system, they all sounded very good, they are unfatiguing.My search of pc is over.
I never believed in powercords once. I tried all the fancy stuff that cost a fortune, $1000 and up and believe me, they sound different, thats all but for a used Audience ~$250. They do make a great difference or sources and amplifiers. I dont like the thickness of it but compared to some others I had, they are just incredible! Good luck
Some other thoughts? Can you 'tame the room'? This can make a big difference. I would look to the room...and if you don't want to change gear, I would look at cabling. There is musical cable that has high resolution and there is 'detailed' cable that is analytical imho. Again, system dependent...play away...try a bunch and find the (sacrilege) color you like :).
Also, try some tweaks on your cd's - I have found that a combination of the following has made cd's more 'musical' - Herbies audio mat and an audio desk and cryo'ing cd's. All the above brought me more resolution, more musicality, not what I would call detail, which can be confused with bright....in some instances.
Be careful with powerconditioners, yes, some work better than others, but my experience as been it is system dependent. One conditioner is NOT everyone's cup of tea. I have found them to be system and equipment dependent. For example on my VAC PHI integrated it comes with a 47 pound outboard powersupply. I plugged several conditioners in with either no to little to no effect to YUCK! depending on the conditioner.
Nickt, If it hasn't already been done, I would definitely look into room treatment first. In my system, most of the brightness were gone after a couple of diy projects. The remaining flutter echo was taken care of by some well placed objects along the reflection points.
I think that brightness & edginess are 2 separate qualities that are often lumped together when they should not. For example, Wilson speakers are edgy in my experience as an owner, but not bright. Some Aerial speakers (one owned 10ts) can be bright, but are anything but edgy. I once tried some Nordost Valhalla ICs on my Accuphase 75V, & they were so bright & forward they drove me against the wall, but at the same time they were smooth. Brightness is more tizziness, glare, forwardness, or screech. Edginess is a kind of etched, brittle, scraping, hash-like, rough sound especially noticible in vocals and piano notes.
While both are bad, edginess is far more annoying to me, because it seems more intrinsically part of each instrument or voice, making each sound artificial. Brightness be sometimes be listened through, like clicks & pops from vinyl.
The opposite of bright is dark, and I have heard a system sound dark while still being edgy.
Just my 2-cents on this subject.
For what it's worth, in trying to avoid edginess, I like Shunyata Anaconda Alphas in the high-price range, TG 688s or SLVRs at the modest-price end.
Nick, I agree with Ajahu. The Reymo line conditioner is designed to make more elegant, refined, less edgy sound. I have heard it in a friends system. He has used it in and out of his system and has decieded to keep it in, for the problems you stated.
Why not try out some power conditioners? Every one I've tried softened the highs. It wasn't my preference, but if I was running SS, I wouldn't be without it.
Actually, I believe it's pretty much a guarantee that Nick has a problem with vibration contamination. Since everybody else does too. Vibration problems are kinda' like dirty AC and dirty underwear. Everybody's got 'em. :)
A system where vibration contamination has not been addressed or improperly addressed typically leaves a mushy and dulled residue that renders a performance somewhat lifeless where it becomes difficult to make the distinction between a strike at the high-hat cymbals or a rim shot. This effect is generally the opposite of what one would consider bright.
As far as I know, the only way perceived brightness will occur is when the vibrations have been properly addressed using the coupling methodology as opposed to the decoupling methodology.
Though the coupling vibration control methodology provides essentially the same sonic benefits across the frequency spectrum, there can be a perceived increase in 'brightness' due to the fact that most systems are at least somewhat bass deficient.
Therefore, since the presentation is already improperly weighted toward the highss, any further enhancements would simply give the illusion that the scales have been tipped even further toward the higher frequencies.
Properly addressing the bottom end thru proper amplification, speakers, and/or cabling would be the far better way to address this so-called 'brightness' if it were in fact deemed to be the result of vibrations.
-IMO (Disclaimer: For I too am a rack manufacturer.)
Nickt hasn't stated what speakers he's using, how they are setup, a diagram of his listening room, whether he's using room treatments or what type of rack he places his equipment upon, yet everybody has an idea about taming the "brightness". Physicananimal was right, the madness goes on!
John, I agree with you about cables and power cords as "tone controls" not being "the preffered method." I suppose that's the way if you don't want to give up your existing gear. I just wouldn't go that way...
"no power cord is going to set you free with that brightness problem".
You forgot to add, IMHO, no?
I'd have to disagree. If you've owned Shunyata King Cobra's and such, maybe they didn't work in your system. They sure smoothed out a bright preamp I had once. Of course it's gone now. I doubt your YBA is bright, though.
Yes, many find the Krell gear bright, but if he wants to keep it, there are ways of taming it. Cardas interconnects and speaker cables are another option, IMHO. Using cables and power cords as tone controls isn't the preffered method, but it is an option.
You may want to investigate whether the brightness you are experiencing is the result of vibration contamination. If it is (and I have found that one of the sonic symptoms of some types of vibration is an elevation in the brightness region), you may be doing yourself a disservice by trying to manipulate the system and reduce the brightness by changing cables or power cords. If the brightness is caused by vibration but you change cables to try and tame it, the system may actually sound dull or lifeless when you do get around to controlling the vibration correctly.
Best Regards,
Barry Kohan
Disclaimer: I am a manufacturer of vibration control products.
"short of replacing Krell gear" You said it,not me. Now you're talking. Sometimes that's the plain ole audiophoolish truth. Can be a little painful, but no power cord is going to set you free with that brightness problem. I thought that point was clearly made. That's the sarcasm behind my post. Thin skin you got there, AF5228....Butthole? Thanks for thinking of me...peace, warren
After buying the Anaconda, you could try various combak harmonix products, like cones for componenst and speakers and the Reymo 777 als line conditioner. These are designed to make more elegant, refined, less edgy sound. (Trying them in my own system - Wilson Benesch and mark levinson electronics - I found that they make too much good for my taste and for my relatively polite speakers. But if your line conditioner is a hydra, changing that with an ALS 777 might do the business) Also you can try play with the acoustic system resonators. I recently played with them, and they are also able to shift the sound of the system to a given direction. You really need contact their closest dealer and to see what would help you. Maybe combination of basic and silver resonators would help.
You might give a GNSC PASI unit a try. It will eliminate some glare and edge that comes out of the CDP, at least that's been my experience. Only down side, you'll need a another pair of interconnects.
OK Warren, your up. Nickt says he already has dedicated lines, a power conditioner and components that he doesn't want to change. He's looking for suggestions for more musical sound and less brightness.
What do you recommend? Sunglasses?
He doesn't say what kind of cabling he's using. Yo! Nickt! What kind of cabling are you using?!
If you like the Krell stuff and want to keep it, try Cardas cables and Shunyata power cords. If they don't help you, nothing will, short of replacing the Krell gear.
Actually, I think Audience has some of the best cabling for the dollar and supposedly competes or beats some other higher priced cables such as the Nordost Valhallas. I used to own their au24 ics and I still use their au24 speaker cables.
I've never tried their power cables and I'd guess that they too are better than most. But it really doesn't matter, because no power cable can do what 'proper' line-conditioning can do.
At least that's what I interpreted Warren to say. :)
Nick, after all this, aren't you glad to know that an Audience powercord is the answer. Man, all these threads, hitting on the same idea, who would have thought that an Audience powercord was the answer. Sorry my fellow audiophools, I couldn't resist...lol.. Audience powercord: who woulda thought...
It's entirely possible the so-called 'digital brightness' you are hearing is absolutely fine except that it's being clouded and blurred by a lot of digital noise and AC noise that has been left untreated.
It really doesn't make sense to attempt to use cables, ic's, etc. as tone controls. It's not much different than putting a band-aid over a band-aid.
Especially, if you ever upgrade.
I'd recommend the dedicated lines as others have and you might consider auditioning the Foundation Research passive, dedicated, and bi-directional filtering (digital noise is bi-directional) line conditioners.
The LC-1 and LC-2 line-conditioners are small boxes that come with their own built-in power cable and cost about as much as a good power cable, yet do far more. The old versions were considered the best by Marty DeWulf of Bound for Sound in Aug. 2003 issue. The new versions are about 2 or 3 times better than the old.
I just don't believe any power cord will impart significant difference to a bright system. I know some will say it does, however and if they hear it, fine. I don't. I detect small changes but nothing I would lay a systems balance on. You might want to focus on setup a little more. A lot of times, reflections can be at the root to this. All this hoopla about power cords leaves me frazzled. Are you using it as a tone control? How do you know it has improved something over just making it different? Also, Krell does tend to lean towards the brighter spectrum and is a little analytical for my tastes. Good luck
Consider a Tube Preamp to add that magic back into the equation, I don't believe a powercord or even power conditioning can relax Krell control (and the brightness I have found in my past listening experiences) A good balanced conditioner would add some liquidity, plus as others have said the dedicated powerlines is a necessary upgrade.
Thank you everyone for your inputs. I love my Krell system for what it is: transparent, dynamic, detailed and revealing. I used to have tube gears so just want some of that magical tube sounds in my current system. I do have dedicated lines and a conditioner.
Well I agree that power cords should not be used as tone controls, one has to understand that the alternative is to change the equipment. I have used p/c's as tone controls on equipment that was a bit bright or harsh. Sure, the best thing is to sell the equipment, and buy equipment that better suits your taste. The p/c is merely a band-aid that can help you out until you realize that the gear has to go. I didn't feel comfortable telling Nickt to sell his Krell gear. Maybe he doesn't want to for ergonomic issues. I have found that a power cord can smooth out harsh equipment.
Whether the user wants a p/c that will smooth out his system, or to change equipment to more suit his taste is really up to the individual.
I've found that any cord (or wall receptacle) using silver has an inherent quality that I perceive as brightness, regardless of what position I use it in the system.
I also have dedicated lines but that didn't do anything for brightness; rather it helped reduce the background noise level & allows me to turn on the amp w/o tripping the breaker.
Spkrs can contribute to brightness as well as some components but I use cables to fine tune what I have, so in a sense I consider them tone controls.
I totally agree with Tvad and Warren. IMHO PC should not change the tonal balance of your components, nor should IC's or speaker cable. If they do its because they are not neutral (tonally) and are actually degrading the signal. They may superficially "sound" better, but when you eventually change out the component that is the cause of the problem you end up having to change out your cabling to match the new components. The only reason to change wire is for increased resolution. IMHO.
I agree with Tvad. A dedicated line, at the least, for your front end may be all you need. If you still have that "brightness" and believe it is your cdp, I'd think of another cdp. I wouldn't look to power conditioning or new power cords to save the day. I don't believe in using power cords (any cords, cables, etc) as a preamp with bass and treble controls. Power cords should allow the inherent qualities of your system to come through. It's a tricky thing. peace, warren
The Paragon (Pure Note) pc seems to work for me on my KMA-250s (these are antiques now). It is a very quiet cord with no added brightness. I upgraded from the Sigma model which has been a popular choice for Krell gear (see searches). Price is right.
I'm not familiar with Krell model numbers. When you say "all Krell" does that include speakers and cables?
Just wondering how you determined that the power cord for the cdp was causing your system to be bright? Using a power cord as a tone control seems very foreign to me.
Have you tried adjusting the toe-in on your speakers or some simple room treatments?
Depends on how much musicality you want to add and how much brightness there is to tame. The Anaconda Vx will help, the King Cobra V2, is smoother than the Anaconda Vx, and the King Cbra V1 is smoother and warmer then the V2. Shunyata had critics claim their original series were too rich, warm and musical. Unfortunetley, Shunyata listened to the complaints and made their cables more dynamic, while losing the magical midrange. Don't get me wrong, the Anaconda VX is on the warmer side of power cords, but if you really want a rich textured midrange, try a King Cobra V1.
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