Power supply to Amplifier

Prior to posting this thread , I was considering whether I should have regenerator or a conditioner before my Amp. Now I decide I will have neither of them and continue with direct supply from wall. But for the views expressed here from FMs, I would not have been able to make such a decision. Thanks you all.

Al,
Yes, you are right . Sorry for not interpreting you correctly. Since I am using class A amp , I did not pay careful attention to your comments to class AB and D amp. No harm intended.

07-27-13: Radni
Is there a technical problem to use Regenerated power ? Elizabeth surly says not to use Regenerated supply. Some say it will compromise Dynamics ! Al says he does not see how , and I tend to agree with him .

Hi Radni,

Note that what I said was:

With a class A amplifier, which draws essentially constant current all of the time, I don't see why a regenerator would compromise dynamics. On the other hand, it does perhaps seem understandable if the amplifier is class AB or class D, where the current draw fluctuates widely with the dynamics of the music.

In the case of a class AB or class D amplifier, I can't precisely explain why there might sometimes be a perception of reduced dynamics when a regenerator is used, but intuitively I would not rule it out as being a possibility.

Regards,
-- Al

Hi Everyone,
Somehow this thread got diverted on power supply line in general (dedicated line highly recommended ) and Surge protection used by most. Also many or most prefer to lug the Amp directly to wall outlet. But not too much is shared or said as to if Regenerated power is good or bad. Is there a technical problem to use Regenerated power ? Elizabeth surly says not to use Regenerated supply. Some say it will compromise Dynamics ! Al says he does not see how , and I tend to agree with him .
At the End I like to continue with direct wall supply with my MIT ZII cord to my Amp. And yes , I do have a dedicated power line , total isolation from my home supply , and a Brickwall Surge Protection unit on my dedicated line, a servo controlled voltage stabilizer to to take care of variations .

Rlwainwright, you're right - it won't do a thing when lightning hit is direct (1 foot wide plasma) but it will help when it hits transformer, street light, ground near your home etc. The best is always to unplug and I do it during thunderstorms or when leaving for few days. For everyday use my amp is ON all the time protected by Furman. My DVR and TV are also plugged-in since it is recording shows during day.

Also, Al has very good point. It doesn't have to be lightning. I experienced few times light bulbs going slightly brighter for a second or so and in one case Furman's circuit breaker switched off. Voltage reached dangerous level without any thunderstorm in whole area. Such things like inductive kickbacks, that Al mentioned, would not be noticeable but could easily damage electronics. My Furman filters them out and suppresses them without even engaging circuit breaker.

Not sure why a couple of the responses seem to assume that the only source of potentially harmful power surges and voltage spikes are nearby lightning strikes.

From this article:

The most familiar source is probably lightning.... A more common cause of power surges is the operation of high-power electrical devices, such as elevators, air conditioners and refrigerators. These high-powered pieces of equipment require a lot of energy to switch on and turn off components like compressors and motors. This switching creates sudden, brief demands for power, which upset the steady voltage flow in the electrical system. While these surges are nowhere near the intensity of a lightning surge, they can be severe enough to damage components, immediately or gradually, and they occur regularly in most building's electrical systems.

Other sources of power surges include faulty wiring, problems with the utility company's equipment, and downed power lines. The system of transformers and lines that brings electricity from a power generator to the outlets in our homes or offices is extraordinarily complex. There are dozens of possible points of failure, and many potential errors that can cause an uneven power flow. In today's system of electricity distribution, power surges are an unavoidable occurrence.

I would add to that list the possibility of "inductive kickback" from things like power drills or other motor-driven heavy duty electrical equipment, that you or your neighbor or a service person in either house may use from time to time.

I recently had a high quality Corsair power supply in one of my computers, which had been working reliably for several years, fail on the same day that a plumber had used a high powered piece of electrical equipment in the same part of my house. That was despite protection from a Home Depot-type surge suppressor.

Concerning surge suppression that may be designed into audio components, I would not count on it being either present or adequate. And if present, and it were to stop a voltage spike from doing harm, what basis is there to assume that its capability would not have been degraded to the point where it would be unable to do so the next time?

Regards,
-- Al

To connect the Amps direct to the wall socket is the way to go for High current draw SS amps esp monoblocks. But i did the following when I upgraded my power supply.
a. 30 amp feeder direct to board
b. 20 amp feeder direct to board
Connect in a Shunyata Hydra 4 to one of the Oyaide R1 duplex outlets for the 30amp feeder. Plug in my Preamp and Phono to Hydra 4 direct. Plug in my Acoustic Revive RTP-2 ultimate in 1st Shunyata outlet driving the two mono AN300B SETs. I use the 1st outlet on the Hydra 4 closest to the magnetic breaker. So I had 5 outlets if you know what I mean but I have now 1 spare outlet.
The other R1 goes to a 6 outlet BPT 1200 Power Condtioner (balanced) powering my Mcintosh CD player and the PWD DAC II, Subwoofer amps.
The 20amp circuit drives my router, NAS , also, Media server, and T/T motor unit. etc

I tried to plug the Acoustic revive with the 2 monoblocs AN300B's direct into 2nd Oyaide R1- Ground differential Hum even though it was the same 30 amp circuit. After it is routed through the Hydra 4 - no more problem. Lucky I did that cos' shortly after that I hit a earth fault as I was messing around with some wiring in another circuit, and trip the entire main board breaker. Could have blown my amps or something.

SQ analysis. RTP-2 Ultimate is really great in a subtle manner. Seem to tame the Shunyata darkness if you guys know what I mean; More alive the music!
So SQ goes up, protection is still there; Not ideal and purist but I feel safe! Not to mention thunderstorms and lightning strikes?

A surge suppressor will do NOTHING to protect your amp if you suffer a lightning strike. The ONLY solution is to yank the cord from the wall outlet before the lightning hits.

And 'most every competent amplifier design incorporates surge suppression into the design.

So, IMHO, surge suppression is a waste of money for today's amps...

I use Furman Elite PFi 20 conditioner. It has very tight non-sacrificial over/under voltage protection with circuit breaker. It provides separate filtered outputs for power amps, preamps and video. I don't experience any loss of dynamics perhaps because it uses Power Factor Correction - that consist of huge inductor and capacitor. By storing energy they not only smooth-out supply current, making it look like resistive load, but also can deliver large peak currents to load (55 amperes max). If I remember correctly Elizabeth uses Furman Reference series conditioner that is even better, providing complete isolation and therefore additional common mode noise suppression.

I agree with Minorl. You want a dedicated power source to make sure that 100% of used power is going to your amp and not shared with other devices.

You also want to isolate your amp voltage source from noise coming from other ground wires. I have used dedicated wire and circuit breakers on my Krell monoblocks and they just sound fabulous.

If you have the money, use the best AC power cable and receptacle you can buy for your amp, they make a difference. I'm using Shunyata Anaconda CX series power cords on all my audio devices and Furutech AC receptacles as well.

AC receptacles are often neglected by audio enthusiasts, I got much better bass (tight and resolved) using audiophile grade AC receptacles.

Al is correct in that you have to have protection for when you forget to unplug (obviously the best) your equipment and a lightning storm descends up on you (it will happen). I have Brickwall unit(s) for this as well. Elizabeth is right in that you need to get the big (PS Audio P10) units so they have the umphh to drive your amps easily if....as Charles1dad says, dedicated outlets aren't possible or adequate. Living in Atlanta, a P10 made all the difference in the world for me while a nearby friend who has the street transformer right outside his house, running directly into his house, benefitted little. It does depend. (Now, how diplomatic was that!) I own seven Brickwalls and two P10's so you could say I have bought into this approach.

The right answer is, it depends. I have dedicated AC lines with their own separated electrical panel. I also have a balanced AC isolation transformer conditioner.Every component without exception sounds better when plugged into the balanced AC transformer vs directly into the dedicated wall outlets.You may or may not have similar results.
Regards,

A dedicated circuit is step 1. A proven power cord would be step 2. Power conditioning is step 3. Depending on equipment, sonic results vary. I like my amps plugged into a Shunyata Triton.

If the power supplied by company is really dirty , then why not regenerated power ( from home power plant like P300) which would be much purer ? Why would it not be good for power amp ? Any conflict between oscillator of regenerator and transformers of power amp?

Some people report that the dynamics of the music seem to be compromised when regenerators are used. Others use them successfully. But no, it's not a matter of a conflict between the oscillator and the transformers, or anything else that may be unhealthy for the amplifier.

I don't think there is one right answer that will always be sonically optimal. It depends on the design of the amplifier and on the characteristics of the AC. For example, with a class A amplifier, which draws essentially constant current all of the time, I don't see why a regenerator would compromise dynamics. On the other hand, it does perhaps seem understandable if the amplifier is class AB or class D, where the current draw fluctuates widely with the dynamics of the music.

Personally, I wouldn't want to be without some sort of surge protection between my amp and the wall outlet. I use this Brickwall surge suppressor/line filter, and I've been pleased with the results. My amplifier is class A, and I live in an area that has no nearby industry or commerce that might pollute the AC.

Regards,
-- Al

Dedicated line with its own hot, neutral and ground back to the panel. Don't let the electrician share neutrals with some other circuit.

If the power supplied by company is really dirty , then why not regenerated power ( from home power plant like P300) which would be much purer ? Why would it not be good for power amp ? Any conflict between oscillator of regenerator and transformers of power amp?

dedicated line if not then I always wanted to try but couldn't afford home regenerated power. In theory at least it sounds good.

The best option would be a dedicated line. Other then that just plug it directly into the wall as Zd542 said.

Plug it into the wall.