Having been a long time audiophile living with countless high end compnents I have to wonder about the theory and practicality of high end power cords.
I have yet to hear the difference a power cord makes. Ive owned, synergistic, Shunyata, BMI and cardas. I in no way can detect any sonic signature or change. Give me a pair of interconnects and I imeadiately notice a difference somewhere in the sonic spectrum. Not the PC though. I have accomplished 4 blind tests with my friends. 3 out of the 4 they did not know their cord was replaced. All 4 were using a stock factory supplied cord. Each of the 4 tests were done on different components. Amp, CDP, Preamp & dac.
My electrical backround tells me that provided you supply the component with its required voltage bet 110vac or 220/240vac its happy. Now, change the incoming frequency from 60hz to say 53hz and watch how quickly your soundstage collapses.! This is often the case during the summer months when home air conditioners are in use and the utility company power output is taxed to the max. A really good power conditioner should however take care of the frequency fluctuations. But 110vac is still 110vac regardless of the conductor it passes through as long as its remains 110vac when it reaches the intended circuit. Does your 8k amp or preamp know the difference of the path the voltage took to reach it ? Many an audiophile will use a dedicated 20amp circut for their equipment.That is a good idea as voltage & frequency fluctuations will occur in the home circuit to to other loads on the main breaker panel but again, A power cord simply is the means of transporting the voltage from the wall to the component. IF there is a clean 110vac @ 60hz at the wall socket, no matter what the medium is to go from the socket to the component, it will still be 110vac @60hz.
Could somebody expand on this a bit more. I just dont understand it. ??
There it is! When the pseudo skeptic’s back is up against the wall he lashes out out with the usual attacks. It’s the other side that’s abandoned rational debate and science, resorting to personal attacks, changing the subject, making baseless accusations, muddying the entire discourse, and misinterpreting the pseudo skeptic’s argument. There is no acknowledgment of or rebuttal of the counter arguments. Just a lotta who shot John.
You’ve gone all Pee Wee Herman on us, Geoff. "I know you are but what am I" or "I’m rubber you’re glue" are not valid or particularly constructive arguments.
If, on the other hand, you’re agreeing with me that proponents of expensive tweaks and AC power cables are indeed engaging in all kinds of ad hominem because they cannot articulate or elucidate any measurable or repeatable improvements, and your most recent post was just a clever parody of this behavior, let’s start reporting these "psuedo-______" people to the mods! They’re disruptive!
If I’m wrong on both counts, please enlighten me and point me to the scientific experiments that I am not acknowledging, whereby AC mains cables have been shown to make an audible difference in a controlled environment or with full transparency to the listener as to what was being changed?
I've been commenting in good faith here up to and including the links I've posted that point to actual tests which have been conducted. If you're here in good faith, please point me to the objective tests which prove the opposite and we can agree to disagree or I will admit that I'm wrong.
Hey, what happened to the OP? Is he a...... troll? 🤡 Oops a Daisy, that was 15 years ago. Let’s hope he found salvation with a new Audioquest Hurricane, you know, the one everyone is ranting and raving about, that’s controlled for directionality.
Good point. Or is it? One of your fellow snake oil believers said that my study proving power cables don’t make a difference was too old - 14 years. Perhaps there have been changes to cable tech in the mean time and the OP wishes to follow up?
Or maybe it’s just more fun to assume he’s reading, while I take apart your non-arguments on the topic and call you out for the trolling you’re doing off-topic.
Which is seemingly your hobby and main daily activity:
Or maybe it’s just more fun to assume he’s reading, while I take apart your non-arguments on the topic and call you out for the trolling you’re doing off-topic.
>>>>>Are you looking in the mirror?
Which is seemingly your hobby and main daily activity:
Back on-topic to anyone else who might be reading and interested in a real discussion rather than internet posturing and self-aggrandizement, I read that Shunyata had entered the world of medical devices.
Does anyone have any actual information on what they're doing or what kind of products they're selling - or for how much $$?
As I listen to the results of buying a few new power cords, and adding in a pair of Furutech GTX duplex
Awesome. Glad you are enjoying them and that your opinion of them is positive. All of you cable snobs seem to have very strident opinions. And that's what they are, until you start producing some reproducible data points: opinions.
Actually no, you haven't at all. You've attempted to engage
contributors here in wagering. The moderators deleted those posts. You've also
made claims about the group, but then failed to substantiate them. For example:
... The only thing
that qualifies as "dogma" around here is the notion/statement that
"my power cable sounds better than yours because I say so!" which
gets repeated over and over and over ... .....not to mention "I don’t
believe in science!
And you've complained when moderators enforce the rules here:
And yet you still report my posts to the moderators for removal rather
than let them stand on their own to demonstrate "third or fourth grade"
writing. Riiiiiiight.
And then there's your "colorful" and imaginative language:
If the answer is NO - then kindly STHU about this mostly-imaginary "bet"
that your lizard brain is wrapped around the axle on and let’s proceed
with the debate on power cables regarding their own merits or lack
thereof.
And you've manufactured other claims, such as this:
One of your fellow snake oil believers said that my study proving power cables don’t make a difference was too old - 14 years.
So no, you haven't even remotely shown good faith. Have a Nice Day.
Actually no, you haven’t at all. You’ve attempted to engage contributors here in wagering. The moderators deleted those posts. You’ve also made claims about the group, but then failed to substantiate them. For example:
... The only thing that qualifies as "dogma" around here is the notion/statement that "my power cable sounds better than yours because I say so!" which gets repeated over and over and over ... .....not to mention "I don’t believe in science!
No. Again for those who lack adequate reading comprehension skills, I said that I would take part in a "wager" IF there was an acceptably scientific study done on the power cable debate and I stand by that. I never proposed any specific wager, and in fact, another user put an actual $$ figure out there - I believe it was $25K. Yet you don’t have any problem with that. Hmmm....can you say.....CONFLICTED? or.....HYPOCRISY? or.....POT CALLING KETTLE BLACK?
Complain about my language all you want but that has no bearing on the good faith of my argument.
And you’ve manufactured other claims, such as this:
One of your fellow snake oil believers said that my study proving power cables don’t make a difference was too old - 14 years.
You think I manufactured that claim? You didn’t see the post where someone questioned the veracity or legitimacy of the link I provided because it was 14 years ago? I’m sorry if you’re also hard of seeing, but it’s there and the burden of proof is not on me to prove it, as anyone with any kind of computing device can simply go back through the comments on this thread to verify that indeed it’s there. In fact here it is, by @cleeds (i.e. YOU):
So your claim about not being able to distinguish between power cables power cables in a blind test is based on someone else’s 14-year-old test?
Why do you feel the need to lie and obfuscate, then report my posts to moderators when you don't have a valid or effective counter argument?
Once again, simply saying things over and over doesn’t make them true. I’m the one attempting to engage in good faith debate here, you and yours are doing the exact opposite and you’re apparently willing to lie or overlook things that actually happened in order to make your "point"....which is????
Hmm I wonder why the mods let you get away with posting inflammatory and offensive comments like that where you degrade people who work at subway, but they delete posts that call you out for it?
Let's see how long your post stays up so that we all can plainly observe your derision and condescension for people who work in fast food.
No - it was meant to insult anyone who works in fast food as though they have no valid opinion on anything related to audio. Stop dissembling and trying to distract. It's pathetic. It was also in theme with two other recent comments by different participants which implied that they were ultra-successful businessmen and that they could afford audio tweaks and cables that the rest of us can't. That's totally false. And offensive - especially considering the other things that moderators have removed (or which you and yours have flagged for removal). It's hypocrisy to downplay that comment and then flag mine for removal.
Yeah it is slightly insulting on the face of it.
Nice admission and attempt to downplay it.
The ’odd" parts are the extended responses. all of which add endless baggage to the simple statement, none of which is justified in any way!
Provide examples or your allegations have no merit. "ALL" the extended responses to the Subway post? There was ONE and it was deleted by a mod so I mentioned it again. You need to re-assess your grasp on reality.
So i suggest stop trying to expand the statement into the downtrodden workers of the World, and all the rest.
That's projection or just intentional misinterpretation. Nobody mentioned "the world" or "workers" - rather I called out that he was being intentionally condescending and engaging in ad hominem in order to discredit the opinion of someone with whom he disagreed, by explicitly accusing me of working at Subway.
Proof most audiophiles have zero sense of humor. And it SHOWS. The fact is the added responses are desperately trying to make something out of nothing. Like if we blow this all out of proportion, maybe somebody on "The Insider" TV show will notice it?
Your responses all exhibit this exact tendency. Something out of nothing, zero humor, etc. So what do you think you're accomplishing here? Two can easily play at this little game of yours "Elizabeth"....
I got them old flashback blues. The more things change the more things stay the same. Same old tired arguments from clones of all the pseudo skeptics that went before. Do you really think I never heard all this before? It’s the same movie, different theater. Try to get a sense of humor somewhere. That would be a start.
Spent most of my youth Out hobo cruising And all I got for proof Is rocks in my pockets and dirt in my shoes So goodbye nonbeliever Don't you know that I hate to leave here So long babe, I got the flashback blues
John Prine and Princess Bride quotes instead of any further justification for ridiculous claims. LMAOOOOOOOOOO --- and the mods have let the subway ridicule stand.
AUDIOGON - FLIP YOU - Delete me and my account. I DEMAND that you do so now.
Also, since we all know that Geoff has fake credentials and is a major liar, let’s all agree that he’s a bigger loser than anyone who works at Subway, shall we? I mean at least they can make a decent sandwich. All he can do is come up with BS psuedo-science descriptors for the grifting he attempts to pull off on so-called audiophiles.
How many of you even care about music? I doubt any of you (Geoff, cleeds, clearthink, a few others) have actually stood up and danced in the past 5 years. LMAO---and you know I’m right. If I’m wrong, tell me - what have you danced to recently, and was it better because you had a "better" power cable? Maybe you’ll actually name the music you like if you’re too chickensh*t to say why you prefer expensive power mains cables. Do you even listen to music in a live setting? I kinda doubt it. Plus at concerts/shows they use crummy cords. Sooo......
Could you show me the quote that said "I’m leaving"? I'm not going anywhere until my account is deleted or someone here offers up a definitive stance on power cables, i.e. the subject of the thread. In the mean time....
I asked Audiogon mods - some of whom are clearly monitoring this very thread - to delete my account. When they do, I am leaving. But I am not quite sure what gave you the idea I would have "left" before such time as I am still able to post. In any case, that will involve them deleting all data associated with my account from their servers - buyer/seller/comments thread participant/etc.
You seem close enough to an expert - do you think they’ll do that? Or can I expect to be able to sit around here and make fun of the aforementioned individuals indefinitely?
Aaaaand....perhaps you might clarify - OR - just admit you’re also piling on and trying to join the cliquish junior high behavior? What is YOUR OPINION on power cords? You DO care about the TOPIC right?
"....
which the mods frown upon. You'll find out soon enough..."
You mean after you flag my posts? Hey - since you're in so well with the mods, why don't you try to help me get what I asked for; namely for them to delete my account?
In case you clowns were wondering, my question about what you’ve danced to in the past year wasn’t rhetorical.
If you’re not going to address the topic which is power cables, then at least let’s stick to music....have you danced to ANY music in the past year, if so what and what system were you using to listen - or - what live venue were you at?
But none of you are interested in audio, much less music at all....’r’ya? Am I the only music lover in this thread and probably the only person that has actually danced in the past 5 years - alone or with someone else? - That IS a rhetorical question. I already know the answers because if previous discussion has been any indication on how disingenuous the answers will be, all I can say is......
You seem close enough to an expert - do you think they’ll do that? Or can I expect to be able to sit around here and make fun of the aforementioned individuals indefinitely?
Dude, knock yourself out.
Also, I've never flagged a post in my life. People like you tend to burn out and then fade away, so whatever it takes to expedite that process.....
ostensible_constipation Also, since we all know that Geoff has fake credentials and is a major liar, let’s all agree that he’s a bigger loser than anyone who works at Subway, shall we? I mean at least they can make a decent sandwich. All he can do is come up with BS psuedo-science descriptors for the grifting he attempts to pull off on so-called audiophiles.
Whoa! Let’s keep this civil. I apologize to Subway employees for making that comment. That was wrong of me. However, the fact that you like their subs says a lot.
Also, I’ve never flagged a post in my life. People like you tend to burn out and then fade away, so whatever it takes to expedite that process.....
When my post total reaches anywhere near yours, we’ll revisit that. Until then, I appreciate your "concern", but kindly butt TFO if you don’t have anything to contribute one way or the other besides "predicting" moderator behavior. Deal? Thanks in advance.
" [note to self: where do all these 🍑🎩 come from?]"
They come from you. Because you have nothing better to do. Now, when you want to return to the subject of this thread - namely power cables - please let all of us know and we can resume.
Until then, I’m finished with you because you haven’t contributed anything to any discussion in literal years that is worth addressing. Unless you want to address what I said regarding your nonsense fake credentials and documented history of trying to foist snake oil and quantum-nonsense on your "fellow" audiophile.
So, let’s just say I’m going to "sleep" on this thread until someone, even you, can re-broach the topic of cables or say something remotely relevant.
" Do you keep a stash of meth next to your keyboard?"
No it’s in your mom’s purse, but that is right by my keyboard.
Do you go a day without posting here? In how many decades do you expect I will reach the 3,500 post milestone and be able to join the loser club with you and Geoff?
Even at my current meth-addled rate, I'm looking at like 5 years before I have as many comments here as you. And how long have you been a "member"?
It’s all been said already, but you’re so busy huffing and puffing you probably don’t read it. God gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason. If I were you I wouldn’t wait by the phone for someone to agree with you.
I remember when soda was 10 cents and they came out of a vertical rack that was hard for a kid to pull on. Sometimes they'd stick. I also grew up with this black ring around my finger from dialing for those rock concert tickets. And I do remember LBJ. Kind of.
As an old-time ham station guy and electrical engineer, I started building my own audio systems following WWII, I'll state, based on many years of personal experience, that power cords do matter; BUT only in those instances where the cord's gauge isn't sufficient to carry the load imposed by the device. You just don't run a large Bryston or Pass amplifier on a piece of lamp cord. I have changed power cords on domestic electrical appliances, HF radio equipment and audio amplifier gear when it was obvious the manufacturer skimped on the power cord's gague. What you really should worry about is whether the wall socket is connected to a 15 or to a 20 amp circuit in your home's distribution box. (For example: My Bryston 4BSST2 has its own 20 amp circuit.). Just a thought.
It’s all been said already, but you’re so busy huffing and puffing you probably don’t read it. God gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason. If I were you I wouldn’t wait by the phone for someone to agree with you.
I’ll say it directly in response to you as well, and since you’re a legitimately conflicted participant - being a person who supposedly earns a living from selling audiophile "tweaks" which one might assume includes cables in addition to "quantum" nonsense - I will resume my participation in this thread as soon as someone re-broaches the actual topic; that is AC power cables. But people like Geoff should be verboten from taking part in any discussion whereby a person asks for objective advice on any audio tweak when he is so clearly conflicted.
Until then I can be found elsewhere on the Internet properly explaining this subject to people who are actually interested in learning something - and not subject to some kind of strange personality disorder that prevents them from reading for comprehension or acquiring new knowledge.
But if you really want so badly to change the topic, Geoff - Why don’t you give us a rundown of your credentials and/or provide a link to where this has already been done?
Until then....I leave you individuals (you know who you are) to your group pathology. LOL
P.S. Still no contact from the moderators. Maybe they're not all that concerned after all until someone flags a post?
"
As an old-time ham station guy and electrical engineer, I started building my own audio systems following WWII, I'll state, based on many years of personal experience, that power cords do matter; BUT only in those instances where the cord's gauge isn't sufficient to carry the load imposed by the device. You just don't run a large Bryston or Pass amplifier on a piece of lamp cord. I have changed power cords on domestic electrical appliances, HF radio equipment and audio amplifier gear when it was obvious the manufacturer skimped on the power cord's gague. What you really should worry about is whether the wall socket is connected to a 15 or to a 20 amp circuit in your home's distribution box. (For example: My Bryston 4BSST2 has its own 20 amp circuit.). Just a thought."
Now that we're back on topic, I totally agree with your thought and experience. Now let's see if Geoff and his little crew of hangers-on care to dismiss or denigrate your opinion....
Until then I can be found elsewhere on the Internet properly explaining this subject to people who are actually interested in learning something
So you're on a mission. You're an audio Knights Templar, out to save the world from itself and destroy those who oppose you. Got it.
One word of caution. This hobby, like anything else, doesn't take kindly to proselytizing or conversion therapies of any kind. It's much too broad in scope and experience, resulting in rich and varied experiences of a personal nature and not amenable to abusive and personal attacks. But then, you know that already from having to work from home, don't you?
Thanks for that link. As I suspected, Shunyata is doing work to clean up electrical signals on medical imaging equipment cables. That’s legit, and so are power conditioners such as those AQ is discussing in your other link.
There is still zero evidence presented for why a power cable ALONE can do anything whatsoever for audio and I will say beyond a shadow of a doubt that Shunyata’s medical supply business unit is NOT using $1,000+ AC power cables for their image/waveform enhancing equipment. So in itself that kind of shoots down the legitimacy of their own expensive AC cable business. Also, they aren't very specific about WHAT they're doing for these medical imaging issues - and I'm sure if they were under contract to one of the big MRI or other imaging firms, they'd be all about letting everybody know. Still....no way in Hades they're selling hospitals $1000 power cables and that's something I'd actually bet money on right now.
Audioquest has a documented history of falsifying results or at least letting their resellers do so and then take the blame when caught. Their power cables alone (I’ve never made a statement about power conditioners) are bogus and will not enhance ANY audio system, but the conditioners have a legitimate purpose, even if theirs and Shunyata’s (as compared to say Furman) are way over priced.
So you’re on a mission. You’re an audio Knights Templar, out to save the world from itself and destroy those who oppose you. Got it.
No. Once again your powers of perception and interpretation fail you. Perhaps you’re not the Internet superhero that you present yourself to be?
I’ll be on the regular forums where I’ve been involved for the past 5 years and contributing to the blog of Dr. AIX (often anonymously since that’s the nature of his comment software/platform) and on various social media Hi-Fi groups and platforms as well as offering advice when asked about circuit design when I feel as though I can contribute.
On this topic, and since you’re suddenly so concerned (given your years long membership here and "only" 3,000+ comments), and willing to offer up insulting and quasi-condescending predictions for others including me, what exactly are YOU trying to accomplish here - on THIS very thread? Do you have anything to say about AC power cables or NOT? LOL...pot meet kettle again, right? Or do rules and expectations conveniently not apply to you?
Cue up your latest report of my comment to a moderator, as you've been doing for the past day or two. Don't worry, I'm not offended, but you should try to be more honest with yourself even if you're not honest with me and the rest of the readers here wishing to discuss power cables.
Not sure I can speak for anyone else, but I don't think I'll be comfortably numb until I have posted at least 1,500 times.
That's a long way off. Lots of listening and dancing to do in the mean time. Wish some of the other regular "contributors" to this thread would consider actually becoming music aficionados instead of psuedo-audiophiles like Geoff.
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