Playback Designs MPD6 or Bricasti M21?

I was considering these two units as well..I would say the Bricasti is the better choice for many reasons. Streamer built in, it's literally two dacs in one, upgradeable...I'd get the Bricasti for sure. 

Thank you, the Bricasti doesn't have a streamer unfortunately, it's just a network player for connected devices. But the PBD does have an optional built in streamer. Bricasti seems better built and more thorough.

@acurus  Maybe consider asking over on WhatsBestForum as well.  Also, consider adding into your question what sound characteristics you are after and if folks can provide direct insights if either or both meet those. Maybe give folks some sense of what equipment you'd be matching them with. 

It's kind of random as I'm building a new system.  Looking at full Bricasti M25 and M21 or PBD and TBD amplification.   Probably with Joseph Audio Perspective speakers. 

I prefer resolution, dimensionality and slam but at the same time want to add in as much organic  and musical sounding as possible.   Yes I know I want best of both worlds. 

I have not heard either but researched both, the PDB is the most upgradeable sonically. It is FPGA based design done by the guy who invented the FPGA DAC design.

The Nagra DAC that I think sells for $30k-60k is using the low-end code that Andreas Koch (sp?) the PBD designer sells to third parties. He saves the good stuff for his own DACs.

Ted Smith of PS Audio learned how to create his FPGA DAC from Andreas.

I owned a SONY SCD-1 SACD player (modded) and Andreas was involved with that project. Just from that past experience alone made me buy the PBD Streamer-IF streamer with Plink and ROON READY capability. PBD's prior gen streamer

I am currently using the SPDIF of that streamer with my Benchmark DAC3B. It is a killer streamer. As good as the Lunim X1 stream and Sonore OpticalRendu fibre optic streamers. The Streamer-IF is inputting Ethernet, which I find the worst (fibre the best), but Andreas and his partner have made some magic happen in that streamer.  If he can do that with crappy Ethernet I expect greatness from his DACs.

My plan is to get a PDB Dream DAC to hook up to the Plink fibre of the Streamer-IF. Use ROON of course.

I am moving my DAC purchase to 2nd in priority since lower priced DACs are rather good these days. My top priority is to get an amp as good as my CODA #16 for my Livingroom. The new CODA SYSTEM 150 (to be released next month) is what I am targeting to pair with the PBD Dream or Edilwise DACs. The 150 amp is supposed to be a little less warm than the CODA #16 (TBD) and should match nicely with the slightly warm PDB DACs. I am using the CODA #16 in my office.

 

I have the M21 from Audio Acrhon in Chicago.  Audio Archon sells both Playback Designs and Bricasti so they are a good source for comparison info. Mike Kay was very helpful in making my decision.

I choose the M21 because of all the different options for playing PCM and DSD files.  I use the M21's internal streamer with ethernet. It takes up to DSD128.  For PCM there is either ladder DAC or Delta Sigma.  Most of the streaming I do is with Qobuz using Audirvana. Some music sounds better with the ladder DAC and some with Delta Sigma.  I've purchased DSD files from NativeDSD and used them with the 1 bit native DSD player.  The Jazz at the Pawnshop recording sounds almost 3D using the DSD128 file. 

 

Bricasti network card is a renderer and not a streamer. This means you need a Roon Core or a UPnP support player like MConnect to be able to stream music. 
I used both Mconnect and Roon with M3 and preferred Roon for both the sound and UI. Ultimately the Bricasti network renderer was not a competition for a dedicated Aurender streamer. However, it’s a nice to have that can hold you over until you get a better streamer or if you’re between streamers and want to continue to listen. It doesn’t sound bad.

 

Okay, I am confused -- particularly since the Bricasti M21 and the PlayBack Designs MDP-6 are the two DACs I have been most impressed by, albeit based only on what I have read. I thought that the M21 was "good to go", allowing me to plug in and then be fully able to listen to streams of music from Qobuz and Tidal. Apparently, that is not so. I also have a Roon Nucleus+ on my network. Will I still need to purchase yet another component before I can utilize those two services if I were to buy an M21?

Bricasti is Roon ready so just connect Ethernet cable to have it sit on the same network as your roon core and you are good to go for tidal, qobuz and local library files if you have any. You can also use nucleus as a streamer feeding M21 via USB but I doubt that’s going to be as good as just using the M21 as roon end point. 
 

What I was trying to say above is there are dedicated streamers that perform better sonically than the Bricasti network renderer. Do you have to buy a dedicated streamer? No. 

@acurus,

I like my Bricasti M21 DAC very much because it sounds great. The DAC has a 24-bit delta sigma DAC, a 20-bit ladder DAC and true 1 bit DSD for DSD content. It includes an Ethernet connection so the M21 is recognized as a DNLA device and becomes a powerful media renderer. I switched my music streaming to using Audirvana Studio software on my MAC Laptop Computer (14-inch MacBook Pro M2 12 Core/19CPU). I use Audirvana Studio remote on my iPad to find the albums, playlists, etc. My Bricasti M21 DAC connects to the Internet using an Ethernet cable. This setup has resulted in my music being clearer and more open (replaced my Aurender sever). The Audirvana Studio interface is excellent and is easy to use (yes, there is a slight learning curve). The removal of the music streamer and having the Bricasti DAC connect to the Internet and then to my MAC computer has removed a layer from the Music and made it more musical and clearer. I was not expecting this much improvement.

The use of Audirvana Studio App has substantially improved my sound quality very much. As an example of great product support, my Bricasti DAC was upgraded for $1,000. Their MDx board replaced the existing board in the DAC. The next Bricasti upgrade was a free firmware chip program that needed to be inserted into the DAC to complete the upgrade. Both upgrades greatly improved the DAC for a very reasonable cost. This is an example of a company supporting it customers.

To the OP - it's not difficult to home demo these (somewhat harder for the Playback)...why not do that? In typical Audiogon fashion, it seems that half these responses are from folks that don't have direct experience, and the other half is from folks who only have experience with one, in a system v diff from yours.

If you're already inclined towards the Bricasti amps, I'd be inclined towards the Bricasti dac as well.

I can tell you, from direct experience, that there is no contest between the stand-alone Bricasti streamer and the current Playback Designs MPS-X (a D to D converter and streamer). The MPS-X is significantly more expensive...and significantly better.

Someone tried to extrapolate what the Playback dac sounds like based on a old-generation Playback digital streamer. That's a weird way to think about things. It's not hard to find good digital design. Digital has been very good for a while. What's hard is to find excellent analog output stages. We're talking about digital...to analog...converters.

When dcs came out with the "Apex" upgrades, the digital didn't change much. It was really about upgrading their previously lackluster analog output stages.

I'm getting distracted from the point...which is just listen for yourself.

I totally agree with @metaldetektor that listening yourself is the best way to decide on component #1 or #2.  Sometimes this is easy and sometimes it is not.  Audiogon Forum posts and answers are interesting but necessary the answer.  As many people before have said, you have to listen to the equipment yourself and in your listing room to make the right decision.  

Thank you all for your posts and suggestions.  I've been posting for more than 20 years and I will say I am always intrigued with responses to go "listen for myself".  I think that defeats the purpose of these forums.  If we all had the time, the money, the patience to buy it all and demo it all we can simply delete these forums.  That's not the point of these forums is to be advised to get them and demo them.  Just my humble opinion. 

 

With that said,  I do appreciate the time people have taken to respond.  Just looking for feedback on who has heard them and the results of using them.  Not advice to go hear them.

@acurus, okay, I understand.  I own the Bricasti M21 DAC very much.  It substantially improved the sound quality in my system and I strongly recommend it.  Their customer support is great and I encourage you to call them to get more info on the M21 DAC AND your questions answered.  

Couple notes as a dealer of both brands - the M21 "Network Card" can be used as a streamer the same way as the PBD Stream X module can.  StreamX is a $3K option on the MPD-6.  Both can leverage MConnect and JPlay to work as a streamer or serve as Roon or UPnP endpoints.  The person above asking if they needed something else if they have a Roon Nucleus on network, no.  This will serve as a Roon endpoint and nothing else would be required.  

The MPS-X with a separate server is superior to the StreamX module but StreamX is a very good place to start.  

Both units are very well manufactured.  Bricasti is built like a tank, no question but when you pick up a PBD DAC it is obvious how well it is made.  Both made in the US, just on opposite coasts.

The major difference is going to be in the image and a few features.  The MPD-6 and M21 tonally are quite similar but the image is different.  The MPD-6 is a smidge more detailed with a large soundstage that is tall and wide and has excellent depth and good stability.  The Bricasti delta sigma DAC probably has a larger image in terms of height and width but I don't believe it is as detailed and I don't think has the absolute depth of the PBD.  The R2R is nice and a different flavor altogether.  

Both are upgradable.  The firmware on both can be refreshed introducing new features.  The modular nature of the Bricasti also makes longer term hardware upgrades possible.  Both have amazing customer service and relatively few issues.  

Bricasti's Amps and Preamps are absolutely superb and obviously, the M21 will match aesthetically.  The M21 has a bunch of filters to fine-tune the sound. And obviously it has R2R, 1Bit DSD and the Delta Sigma DAC meaning you have more options.  Playback has no filters.  You like it as is or you do not.  Fortunately, Andreas knows what most people like and the MPD-6 is very appealing to many.   

 

 

I have the M21 and very happy with it. Mike at Audio Archon sells both but recommended the M1 which i originally purchased. I decided to go ahead and upgrade to the M21 to benefit from the analog volume control. I was glad I did. The M21 is worth the extra coin. I use a PS Audio Airlens as a ROON endpoint to process the streaming. The M21 has better power supplies than the MPD-6 at least from what i can observe looking at open chassis images.