Congratulations on your new upgrades,
That is a tough call, because only you will be able to determine if something will be better in your system. Yes, typically, a more costly, or the next higher device in a lineup should sound better, but; that is not always true, depending on the system.
If it were me, I would wait until you have the VPI HW-40 and Crimson setup and played for a while in order to make an informed decision to determine if something can be improved. You will not know which way to upgrade unless you listen first. However, many have taken a leap of faith, to include myself, to purchase what we felt would be an upgrade. You win some, you lose some. If you already like the Aesthetix sound, then it might be the next logical step to upgrade to an Aesthetix IO Signature or Eclipse. Of course, the XP-27 is also a nice choice. Take your time and enjoy the system for a while in order to inform your decision. Have fun listening to your new setup.
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Skinzy, Nice table you got there , maybe try add step up tranny to use with MM .
im believer for that set up and cost cheaper too depends what brand .
Bobs devices have SUT that integrated with VPI mount so no add wires.
Enjoy spinning 👍
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Definitely will do a wait and listen approach with my current phono pre which I've owned for the last 15 years. It's a tough question I know, but was hoping someone out there has heard the mentioned equipment and could comment. Recently upgrade my Classe power amps from their last series to the current Delta Monos. While there was an improvement in SQ it was not as much as you may think. Thanks for comments and Happy Holidays!
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Congrats on the HW40. I'd love to upgrade my 10 year old Classic with one.
You could get one of these. HW thought it was one of "the best" he's heard. Personally, I'd just enjoy your already fine setup.
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I have heard an earlier version of the Pass Phono at a friends house and compared that to my Aesthetix IO Signature (now Eclipse with two power supplies) circa, 2008. I though the Pass Phono was an outstanding phono amp as it performed its duties, effortlessly. Compared to my Io at the time, I needed to ensure that I had very quiet tubes and minimized RFI/EMI radiation from cell phones, and other devices. The Io at the time was very sensitive to that type of interference. Now, with the Eclipse upgrade, the power supplies are more efficient, low to imperceptible noise, and upgraded gold caps, and Aesthetix matched tubes, wow, this is a vast improvement over the Io Signature from years gone by. I don’t concern myself with any stray emissions from whatever, it is just an absolute quiet device. The Io Eclipse of today delivers a big, dynamic, and holographic soundstage, with no noise.
Going back to my circa 2008 time stamp when I compared the older Pass Phono with my Io, the Pass Phono is plug and play, while the Io needs some TLC to play competitively. One thing I liked the Io Sig from way back then is that it was more dynamic, albeit with some slight tube noise. Todays Io has no tube noise and is quiet. You can throw away the plug and play analog from the previous generation comparisons, because, now both, are simply plug and play as is. Of course, with Io, you have the luxury (or is it?) of swapping tubes.
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Tube noise and other noise sources has been a problem with my Rhea. Your experience and description is very useful. I think the reason I was looking at Pass was for no fuss SS. Good to know this has been addressed in the Eclipse versions.
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+ big Aesthetix fan here Congrats on the VPI and Crimson, no doubt will sound excellent!
jim
i am a fancy capacitor robot in a metal can
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@skinzy
Yes, the newer or upgraded (sent back to factory for refresh) Io phono amps are fantastic. Since you already have experience with tube rolling, you will find that you don’t have to with the newer Io Eclipse versions as Aesthetix is carefully matching tubes.
One caveat, I did have one tube in V1 start to whistle (after 30 days), and Aesthetix was going to replace it, but I ended up doing my own tube rolling anyway, and went with GL 12AX7s, which are outstanding in those positions. Other than that, I have not touched another tube and find the Io to be the one single audio component that has outlasted everything else I have owned for nearly 16 years. When you consider that, it is remarkable due to the enormous amount of tubes. It is a testament to the build quality of the Aesthetix Io series.
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Personally. I would stick with the Rhea for a while, at least until the VPI and Van den Hul have broken-in and you have a good feel for the sonics. You may be surprised at how much you enjoy the sound with your new TT and cartridge with the Rhea Signature and NOS tubes. That is a mighty fine phono stage set up! I wouldn't be too hasty to find something else that ultimately may prove to be just a sideways move. One of the "traps" of being an audiophile is looking too far ahead at your next purchase/upgrade without fully appreciating what you already have.
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I would agree with multiple folks recommending waiting until all is received and broken in. Then start thinking about the phono stage.depending on how you feel about the sound at that time, I think then start looking for a phono stage. I think you could find a much better one. Pass is great at a lot of things, but my first thought would be Audio Research, Presto, Of others for a phono stage. Really high quality and natural sounding, consider a tubed phono stage. Phono stages are really important, as I think you know.
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Wait. Let the table settle in, then upgrade the Phono stage. Then again, with inflation at 9 1/2%……
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With that new set up you might want to look into the Whest Audio Triton Pro or save a little and get the PS.40RDT Special Edition. either of these could be your end game phono pre.
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I borrowed a Colibri XGW, nice cart. It was of the clean / neutral camp somewhat akin to the Ortofon A90 and not as warm / thick as the Koetsus or even Benzes. I enjoyed it with my VAC tube MM stage and an EAR MC-3 SUT. Both of which add "flesh to the bones" of a cartridge, so to speak. I don't think I'd enjoy it as much with a leaner sounding setup or SS phono stage. So your tubed Aesthetix might be a good match. If you want to experiment further, consider adding a nice SUT (probbly not a Lundahl amorphous core though - they are too lean for the VdH) and running it into the Rhea set at 44dB / 47k.
Very nice setup. The VdH sounds great, back on my friend's VPI 12" 3D arm & HRX again - just heard it again today.
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Thanks mulveling! The SUT sounds intriguing as a way to lower the noise floor of my existing pre. Never thought about that. As I'm not very familiar with SUT brands any recommendations?
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Hello,
I am not sure if you would be willing to try solid state. The Sutherland Little LOCO is really good. It’s quiet, has great dynamics at low and high volumes, the mids are nice and smooth. This is a current driven phono stage instead of voltage driven. This is one of those companies who have not raised their prices yet unlike all the rest of these companies. Plus, Ron Sutherland cares about the consumers happiness even over the money. If the little LOCO is out of the price range at $3800 there is a little brother to the Little LOCO called the TZ Vibe. Still current driven for $1400. I just tried this with the linear power supply intended for the Sutherland 20/20 and it was smooth as silk with more than enough gain for everyones needs. It doesn’t need the LPS to sound great but it did of course improve the sound. So for $1850 to have a fantastic phono stage with a linear power supply you can’t go wrong and definitely not at that price for a current driven phono stages that usually start or will start at $4000. BTW, Nice job on the cart. One of those really great carts on the market. If you live near the Chicagoland area you should visit
HolmAudio.com
Also, You can check out the new Acoustic Signature turntable. It is so good you will sell your car to get one. That Acoustic Signature Tornado turntable on the Ayre separates and the KEF Blades playing through the Sutherland TZ Vibe will make you question your past audio purchases.
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Hello,
I am not sure if you would be willing to try solid state. The Sutherland Little LOCO is really good. It’s quiet, has great dynamics at low and high volumes, the mids are nice and smooth. This is a current driven phono stage instead of voltage driven. This is one of those companies who have not raised their prices yet unlike all the rest of these companies. Plus, Ron Sutherland cares about the consumers happiness even over the money. If the little LOCO is out of the price range at $3800 there is a little brother to the Little LOCO called the TZ Vibe. Still current driven for $1400. I just tried this with the linear power supply intended for the Sutherland 20/20 and it was smooth as silk with more than enough gain for everyones needs. It doesn’t need the LPS to sound great but it did of course improve the sound. So for $1850 to have a fantastic phono stage with a linear power supply you can’t go wrong and definitely not at that price for a current driven phono stages that usually start or will start at $4000. BTW, Nice job on the cart. One of those really great carts on the market. If you live near the Chicagoland area you should visit
HolmAudio.com
Also, You can check out the new Acoustic Signature turntable. It is so good you will sell your car to get one. That Acoustic Signature Tornado turntable on the Ayre separates and the KEF Blades playing through the Sutherland TZ Vibe will make you question your past audio purchases.
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Hello,
I am not sure if you would be willing to try solid state. The Sutherland Little LOCO is really good. It’s quiet, has great dynamics at low and high volumes, the mids are nice and smooth. This is a current driven phono stage instead of voltage driven. This is one of those companies who have not raised their prices yet unlike all the rest of these companies. Plus, Ron Sutherland cares about the consumers happiness even over the money. If the little LOCO is out of the price range at $3800 there is a little brother to the Little LOCO called the TZ Vibe. Still current driven for $1400. I just tried this with the linear power supply intended for the Sutherland 20/20 and it was smooth as silk with more than enough gain for everyones needs. It doesn’t need the LPS to sound great but it did of course improve the sound. So for $1850 to have a fantastic phono stage with a linear power supply you can’t go wrong and definitely not at that price for a current driven phono stages that usually start or will start at $4000. BTW, Nice job on the cart. One of those really great carts on the market. If you live near the Chicagoland area you should visit
HolmAudio.com
Also, You can check out the new Acoustic Signature turntable. It is so good you will sell your car to get one. That Acoustic Signature Tornado turntable on the Ayre separates and the KEF Blades playing through the Sutherland TZ Vibe will make you question your past audio purchases.
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I agree with the posters below that you should settle in with your new turntable before making a change, if any, with your phono stage.
I owned an Aesthetix Rhea for a while and it is an excellent phono stage.
One of the suggestions is to try a SUT into the Rhea, and that could be a plus, especially if you can borrow one to try out. I think the output on the VDH at .65 mv should be a good match for the Rhea. Although the Rhea has some high gain settings, you can get into the noise floor with those.
You may want to look at the higher end Aesthetix IO if you have room and decide to move up.
Good luck with your search
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Maybe different, not necessarily better. But by all means, keep spending money on different phono preamps (instead of LPs) and let us know how it goes.
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Well the new table and cart arrived yesterday. There is quite an improvement in SQ over my VPI Aries 2 and Grado Statement 2 cart. The first LP I played was amazing! As time wore on I became more used to the sound and it became the new normal. I do love the sensation of that first taste of a new component in my system. The tell was listening for more than 5 hours. The Rhea does seem up to the job. The one thing I noticed the most was a blacker background with little or no groove noise. The Rhea is also dead quiet. I'm anxious to compare to my Red Book collection via Denafrips Terminator Plus with Gaia DDC. Will report back once cart has broken in sufficiently.
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Good to know your are heading toward happiness and remaining with the Rhea. I also have had a Rhea in my system for many years. I recently bought a new table and thought about the phone stage also but decided to get the Eclipse upgrade. Haven't got it back yet but I hear and read that the resolution is incredible.
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@skinzy
Glad that your new turntable and cartridge are settling in nicely and sound better than your previous configuration. Agree, love the experience of listening to new equipment and being happy after hearing improvements.
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Xagwell, please report back once you get the upgraded Rhea back. I looked at that option but am a little hesitant as my Rhea is 16 years old and upgraded to Signature just a few years ago.
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"There is quite an improvement in SQ over my VPI Aries 2 and Grado Statement 2 cart."
That's a nice table you have there skinzy. Enjoy.
If you're still curious about other tube options, have you looked at the NVO?
It was the buzz in the forums awhile ago. Rarely see them listed.
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Skinzy my Rhea Eclipse is scheduled to be returned on the 10th and I am sitting on the "edge of m,y seat." Given the pandemic. parts, and staffing the turn around was 12 weeks instead of the usual 6. Aesthetix has advised me that the complete break in is approximately 400 hours with 80% at around 250 hours. Like you my Rhea is 16 years old as well. They report the Signature upgrade doubles the standard Rhea and the eclipse doubles the signature in terms of resolution. Out of the box they report improvement in sound-stage depth and extended bass although less controlled but "really" improves in a short time. I'll see how my sub reacts. Anyway I'm keeping you updated as requested and let you know how it sounds. FWIW I have a Basis 2800/Vector 4 Arm/Hana Umami Red and my "go to" is "Jackson, Johnson, Brown & Company issued by Pablo.
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Xagwell, Thank you! Had no idea the turnaround was so long. I've recently done a lot of system upgrades. New Wireworld interconnects and PC's. I've added a PS Audio Power Regenerator which has lowered the noise floor considerably. Also upgraded my power amps to Classe Delta Monos which has improved dynamic range, soundstage, and tone. Then I went to inputs. Added Denafrips Terminator Plus and Gaia DDC. That was huge! Made my Vinyl the weakest link. After my turntable and cart upgrade I'm now concluding its the equal or slightly better than my digital rig. Still need more time listening. My vinyl weakness at this point is noise floor. Would be very curious to hear about that when your Rhea gets back. Again thanks for your comments.
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Skinzy I rec'd the Rhea Eclipse yesterday and only put 5 hours of listening on it so far. I had taken a pic of the standard Rhea before the upgrade so I immediately noticed the significant changes in circuitry. The 2nd thing was the complete elimination of tube rush from both channels; dead silence It was returned with JJ tubes where I had Teslovak E83CCS/Sovtek 6922. Per Aesthetix the J's offer them the lowest harmonic distortion based on a per batch selection. An appreciable improvement in resolution was immediate as judged by a reduction of sibilance, and a smoothing (less lippy) of JJ Johnson's trombone solos. In addition certain passages were presented/emphasized in manner different than before. Mid bass definition improved based on an increased overlap between the Maggies and Vandersteen sub where there has always been a slight hole. Deep bass was solid but inconsistent in that it was more impactful/defined on some and not on others. Overall this seems to be consistent with the initial expectations Aesthetix delineated. Once again they say it will get better "every day." Again my comparisons are with a stock Rhea I've had for 15+ years. FWIW their customer service gets 5 stars!
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Thank you for your initial evaluation Xagwell. When I went from stock Rhea to Signature the tube rush I had experienced went away and my unit is very quite. My primary goal is to get a quieter noise floor. Don’t know if that’s possible with tubes. My Terminator Plus DAC has a very black background compared to my current Rhea. Don’t know if signal to noise in a phono preamp can compete with a great DAC. On the other hand I love the SQ of vinyl with a tube pre.
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