I find little or no difference with phase switch |
Hi, I used to have a BAT VK51SE. And I did use the phase control. I could hear it on some recordings. Especially in the tightness of the bass and openness of the soundstage. A lot of times it was just hard to tell...
Do you have a tubed bat pre? If so, I'd put in in stand by, keeps the power supply warmed up and ready...but the tubes off...If you leave it on...won't hurt anything...will just have to repave your tubes more often.
If you have a solid state version, I'd leave it on...unless your out of town or something.. |
Ok . Thanks for that advice. I have the VK40 solid state unit which sounds great! I will leave it on as you suggest unless I'm going out of town for a few days. Even in standby mode it takes about 50 seconds to warm up enough to use . I Havnt noticed if the sound gets appreciably better the longer it's left on after that. I've actually just gotten the unit so not too familiar with it yet. I used to keep my Pass Aleph P preamp on all the time! Heck, it didn't even have an on / off switch!! I guess Nelson knew what he was doing!!
Thanks |
It took me years to finally hear it with any consistency. To me, it sounds like a timing issue. Either way, the difference was fairly small. |
If there is little to no difference using the phase switch it
simply means your overall resolution-coming via your entire
system through your speakers-is not as refined as it should-and
can-be. Power cords, i/c's and speaker cables are all vital
(though many feel they aren't)
A power conditioner or 2 may (pre & digital source)
be the best place to start experimenting; but poor power cords
can make a significant difference! Try out some excellent power
cords on your source, pre and amp. It's hard to guess which
will benefit most; relates to each units self isolation and
power supplies. I find the MIT Oracle AClll-a non networked
powercord extremely good in my reference Spectral system-a vast
improvement over anything stock. Have you bought a $15 polarity
tester to check your electrical outlets? I wired incorrectly
negatively affects the clarity of your whole system. JFRECH,
looking at the amazing ROCKPORT speakers you own you should
hear the difference very clearly. It's all about resolution and
your speakers are like Ferrari's(and no, I've never even seen
them-and don't need to-but hope to hear them someday). Zd,
you're right; it's all about timing; and it may be said that to
most the difference may be small,inconsequential. I've had
guitarist friends who wouldn't notice anything out of place
with their gear unless it was an utterly annoying hum or
feedback issue. Polarity? Phase? Neither would never bother
them. They're in a loud environment where the set up is
virtually guaranteed to be never perfect. Ah, but for us, we
have our quiet room, comfy seat and time to listen! Cheers. |
To summarize the reality of correct phase. When your system is tuned up and more/fully revealing playing in "reverse" phase to the way it was recorded simply sounds slow,dull,boring. In correct phase -gives the goosebumbs music is famous for. ;-). Would someone kindly turn out the lights? Ahhh |
"09-26-14: Jfrech
Hi, I used to have a BAT VK51SE. And I did use the phase control. I could hear it on some recordings. Especially in the tightness of the bass and openness of the soundstage. A lot of times it was just hard to tell..."
I don't know if you guys are aware of this, but with regards to absolute phase like we are talking about here, not all recordings are made the same way. About 50% are recorded in phase, and the other 50% are not. That means, regardless of what equipment you have, phase button or not, half the recording you listen to will be in phase. This is not an easy thing to here even with the best equipment. I don't know, or have heard of anyone who could reliably tell the difference between the 2 settings even when they can hear a difference. Myself included. |
PTSS, that was 10 years ago when I had the BAT preamp...it's not a current statement... |
zd542, yeah I tend to agree with you. then I think some recordings have some instrument in phase possibly and some out...further complicating which setting is right and wrong. |
A point to keep in mind is that when the setting of the phase switch is changed, not only is the polarity of the recording being inverted, but the configuration of the circuitry in the preamp is being changed. That in itself can be expected to sometimes affect the sound, to a greater or lesser degree depending on the specific design.
Also, seconding Jfrech's point, my understanding is that most recordings in most genres are produced via heavy multi-mic'ing (i.e., a lot of microphones) together with subsequent mixing and processing in elaborate electronic consoles. With the result that neither polarity setting stands much chance of being correct for all of the performers and/or their instruments.
Regards,
-- Al |
The following CD has a test that will enable you to tell if you can actually hear the Wood Effect. It also contains test for proper sound stage(left and right imaging), the LEDR test, etc: (http://www.amazon.com/Chesky-Records-Sampler-Audiophile-Compact/dp/B000003GF3) Notes on the Wood Effect here: (http://mariobon.com/Glossario/Fase_Assoluta.pdf) LEDR info here: (http://www.stereophile.com/features/772/) |
So basically if you don't have a phase switch on your preamp like I do on the BAT you may never know the difference anyway and are confined to listen to whichever way the recording was produced because there's no other way to switch phase other than swapping polarity on your speaker cables!? I'll just keep the phase switch on so I can see pretty blue light :-) |
You will only hear the effect of inverting the phase if you have a recording with only 2-3 mics in true stereo.
50% of recordings are out of phase anyway, so this can get really tricky. |
The Chesky disc has two demos, in which phase is reversed. The first with one trumpet(actually two tracks, one reversed). The next with a full jazz band, which they reverse the phase on, without telling you at what point. My son and I both noted the exact moment of reversal, different days, no prior discussion. I own a number of recording(CDs and vinyls) that I have marked for reverse phase playback. As Ralph mentioned; there are many more in which no differences will be noticed. |
"My son and I both noted the exact moment of reversal, different days, no prior discussion. I own a number of recording(CDs and vinyls) that I have marked for reverse phase playback. As Ralph mentioned; there are many more in which no differences will be noticed."
Keep in mind that the Chesky CD is made for demos. Most likely, they selected tracks that emphasize whatever quality they want you to hear. |
"Keep in mind that the Chesky CD is made for demos. Most likely, they selected tracks that emphasize whatever quality they want you to hear." GEE, Ya think? Chesky recorded those tracks, and reversed the phase, to demonstrate the Wood Effect, and enable one to see if they can discern it. That WAS the point! |
" I own a number of recording(CDs and vinyls) that I have marked for reverse phase playback."
If you can hear the differences, why mark them? Are you sure you're not dealing with psycho acoustics here? It seems likely that you wouldn't know the difference if the albums weren't pre marked for you. |
Same reason I have some vinyls marked as to optimum tone arm height/VTA: I only have to reverse the phase of a recording once, to determine whether it's worth reversing or not. I may not remember the best phase, if I don't play that recording again, for 6 months, a year.... |
Mr L: Both my CDP(a BAT) & phono stage have phase switches.
You are correct; in that if one has no other means,
reversing the leads to one's speakers would be the option.
BTW: When that LED is lit; it means your phase is inverted.
Obviously; Misters Bednarski and Khomenko(et al) regard phase
accuracy as something to be addressed. They DO seem to know
something about music reproduction! |
