Baffle them with BS, a common disinformation technique used by those with nothing of substance to use in their support to deflect and obfuscate. Over and over, when challenged, we get the same guru double speak. Boring.
Peachtree GaN 1 Beta
Before I start my post here is my current system for reference:
Auarlic Aries G1 --> Denafrips Terminator or SW1X DAC --> Audio GD HE1 XLR preamp or Sachs preamp --> various tube amps --> Cube Nenuphar Mini's w/ a pair of REL S510 subs. Cables and power conditioning commensurate with the rest of the system.
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As warmer months approach I have been looking for a cool running amp to replace my Line Magnetic LM-518 and other tube amps for a few months as they run pretty hot.
I've been interested in the GaN FET amps and just purchased a used LSA Voyager 350 Gan FET amp which I should receive in a few days. I've tried class D amps before and while they checked a lot of boxes I just didn't feel drawn in. However, I like to explore so I figured I'd try the GanFET and since the amp has zero feedback and my speakers seem to prefer amps with little or no feedback I figured it be worth checking out.
Today, Peachtree Audio sent out an email inviting users to a beta of their new Gan 1 amp. Here are some excerpts from their email:
What is the GaN 1? |
In basic terms it is a 200 Watts-Per-Channel (WPC) Power Amplifier designed to be the sole interface between your digital audio device with a variable output, like a Bluesound NODE, and your speakers. The GaN 1 is a simple, pure and cost-effective audio solution: connect the GaN 1 to a streamer and a pair of speakers and you have an amazing Hi-Fi system. That's it...no DAC, no preamp and no input switching. The signal path from the music to your speakers is remarkably short and free of artifacts. Want to hear the intricate details in your music that have always been there, but you couldn't quite make them all out before? Then the GaN 1 is for you!
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I auditioned their GaN 400 amp in my home, using a Benchmark LA4 as preamp. It was mostly underwhelming. It had decent highs and mids but the bass was a joke compared to the other amps I had on hand at the time (Benchmark AHB2 and Parasound A21). Certainly didn’t sound anything like I expect from a 400 WPC amp.
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@tweak1 never did believe in Santa. |
If you are constantly attacking someone....then you are not loving that person....and therefore, you are not loving yourself....as we are all one. When you point your finger at someone......three are pointing back at you. It is all projection. More and more....I see nothing but love. But.....I do state the truth of what I HEAR and also the truth of what I see in others behavior (based on my state of being...btw...you are NOT your behavior). What truth are you stating? Who is living in fantasy mode and who is living in reality (what we experience in the here and now). I am your dady.....I am giving you the love lecture.....my sweet children.....you are also my dady (and I am your child)....that is the way it works.....we all lift or lower each other. I lift you to the highest of the high.....for that is what you are. Ralph, You have stated a couple or more times now on Audiogon that you can measure parts....here is your latest: "Actually, a lot of the things in the list above do have measurable effects. The trick is knowing what to measure." You have never given us an example of measuring something and changing to another part and finding a measurement difference and then that difference results in a change in sound. As far as I know.....there is no way to measure resistors, capacitors, diodes, solder, wire, jacks, damping, directionality of wire, etc. If you use a large inductive part in a sensitive place...like a feedback loop.....then of course, it would change the distortion measurement.....Who the heck would use a large inductive part there? No one. So please show us your many measurement tests followed by listening tests that prove your statement.....Lots of people say things here....very few back them up......Please show us your examples to prove that you did tests on "lot of things". My proof of what I say is in what people say about THE SOUND of my work and products. You will read nothing but raves.....and I have been modding and manufacturing since 1977. My Ultimate Attenuators using shunt attenuators (which I re-invented). were rated in Stereophile as Class A for 7 years. Check out Audioreview for reviews of my Millennium DAC......do a search....you will see MY PROOF.......and in audio, the only thing that matters....the only thing that is true.....is what something sounds like.....all else....including measurements....iare secondary.....believe it or not. Your turn......please lift us up....if you love us......if you love yourself. I love you all for ever and ever..........YOU HAVE ALWAYS BEEN LOVED.....all is good and always has been. Joy to the world, for we are magnificent!!!! Let earth receive our blessings!......Bless....B L E S S......Beautifully....Love...Every...Single....Soul You can do it.......it is your destiny......embrace it.....embrace yourself....embrace everyone and everything and every second..... |
Seriously? If you want to know the effect of a part in an amp, measure the amp not the part. In a class D tiny things can have a big effect, like how a lead is terminated inside a capacitor. If the amp is noisier it can radiate noise through the air and thru the AC wiring (as well as audio grounds). When this happens, it can interfere with other equipment producing things like hum or buzz, or increased errors in digital gear. If the circuit is also zero feedback, just about anything can affect how it sounds. Combined with degraded noise floor its hard to imagine how that will turn out well. That is why I recommend that any modified class D amp be tested to meet or exceed EU directives for radiation. Its common sense. In case its not really obvious, getting class D amps to behave and not make noise is most of the design work. Even if your layout is good, changing a single component such as a bypass capacitor can blow that out of the water. Sound by itself isn’t enough- if the amp is noisy its a liability. I mentioned earlier that GaNFETs can switch really really fast. The deadtime in any GaNFET amp isn’t there for the output devices - it actually has a different purpose in GaNFET amps (extra credit: what is that purpose? If you can’t answer that question you are not qualified to work on the amp). If you make a change and the amp starts switching at 40MHz for no good reason, its a simple fact that the output devices will run hotter. Heat and cooling cycles impose limits on all electronics- GaNFETs are no exception. If they fail early on because they are running hotter, that’s not a good thing, right? The bottom line for anyone looking inside a class D amp is if you plan to modify it for any reason, there is no integrity in doing that if you can’t be sure the noise isn’t affected.
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Kettle, meet pot.
Opinions are not proof of anything, other than perhaps how gullible people can be. |
So, you are clearly stating that changing parts does not matter because you have no test results that show that they do? As long as the amp measures the way you want then it does not matter what part you use? You earlier stated that a LOT of what I said could be measured. Now you are stating that you just measure the amp and as long as it measures OK..it is. You just keep measuring it so it has no rf? You are clearly not measuring A LOT of what I said. You are measuring NONE of what I stated. You are just measuring the entire amp and that is it. You have no idea of what parts SOUND LIKE. You have never tested parts for distortion because it is impossible and you and everyone knows that.....However, all parts SOUND different.....no matter how they measure. I am sure your amp sounds great and measures fine and has no rf or other noises......so what? All the parts inside still have a sound.....this is what you will not address. If you change the brand of surface mount resistors in your amp to another brand....it will change the sound of the amp....and it is not measurable....it will measure the same. This is what I do mostly. I don’t make things measure worse or have more rf......I change parts so the amp sounds better.....something you and all the ASR people do not know is true......is that.....ALL PARTS HAVE A SOUND........and also execution of parts and layout and damping, etc. is important. If you do not put the outside foil of a cap to the negative polarity....it will not sound as good. Do you do this to your capacitors on the output of your amp? If not....please determine the outside foil and oriented the way I suggest and listen. EVERYONE who has tried this agrees with my findings. Again, the amp will not measure differently. There is a thread that you can find on Audiocircle where people describe the sonic benifits of using better modified caps oriented in the correct direction......quite dramatic is their findings. |
Shouting doesn't make something true. |
A lot of what you are saying here is false, for example the last two statements. We use Caddock resistors in our tube amps because they sound better, which you can see in their specs. Our tube amps are zero feedback and so have no correction; as a result we have to give them the best opportunity. Its funny how parts that measure well can sound good too. The opening statement is false. The second statement is misleading. And yes, you test the finished product. That is how everyone including yourself does it, no matter how that testing is done; even if its just listening, which in the case of a class D is asking for trouble. If you mess up the radiation, you’re doing no-one any favors. So I’m sure you do the testing and present your customers with a certificate showing that it still meets FCC part 15, right?
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Yes, I know you use Caddocks and Vcaps in your tube amps......this is good that you listened to two parts and found they work better than some others. However, that is where you stop. Caddock resistors do not measure better than other low inductance resistors....in fact, they do not sound nearly as good as parallel Nude Vishays.... I sometimes will use a power Caddock to get the basic value and then bypass it with a higher value nude Vishay because it sounds way better. Caddocks by themselvers sound "grey".....he he. There is NOTHING in the specs of a Caddock resistor that mentions low harmonic distortion.....just that it is a non inductive part....Right now my padding resistor on my tweeter is two parallel small Caddocks bypassed by a nude Vishay.......way better highs with the Vishay bypass resistor. You cannot measure better distortion because you use a Caddock resistor.....unless the resistor you used before is inductive. Ralph.....you sure have a fear of radiation.....maybe make a faraday cage to live in. I have been modding class D amps for 20 years and no one has died of radiation poisoning.....or had birdies or whistles or whatever your fear is. What I am always saying is the same thing......everything matters.......So, if you do not do listening tests to all your parts and execution then you are leaving a lot of transparency on the table. No one....including me.....listens to everything....there is just not time. That is why the first thing to do when tweaking is to eliminate everything that is not needed......like LEDs, output connectors, extra connections, extra fuses, steel bolts and plates holding transformers down, etc......all these things mess up the sound. Removing things is FREE. After removing everything not needed then spend time on better sounding parts and execution that will bring the most benefit.....then spend the rest of your life....he he.....tweaking and tweaking the rest. It is infinite....it never ends. You can play at any level you want......you can do the ASR/Kuribo game where only measurements matter......or you can add the Ralph thing where only certain kinds of distortion matter (and Caddocks and V-caps in a tube amp)......or you can go crazy like me and try to play with as much of the circuit/execution as possible. There is no right or wrong. You determine who gets your vote by the way the finished product sounds TO YOU.......as that is the only thing that matters. Enjoy the ride. |
Whatever with the folks up in arms about the failures of the GAN1. You guys are right the GAN1 sounds awful, is a radiation hazard, and plays music backwards. Now for the people interested in the sound. I have a used CODA #16 coming next week. A used Lumin X1 DAC coming next month. I will be comparing the following with my RAAL SR1a earphones and not speakers. This is a better way for me to hear this than my 2-channel, especially with the all-silver RAAL Star8 cable I got 2 days ago. These will be my final systems for 3 rooms.
The streaming will be done with Fibre Optic and a EtherRegen as an FMC in front of the FIbre cable (it helps a tiny bit). I will be testing all of this in the office streaming setup using ROON. Based on my prior listening the order of preference so far is, VM-1a, unmodified GAN1, and Benchmark AHB2. All 3 are excellent with the SR1a, at least the way I set it up. |
I saw that. Another person that thinks the gan 1 is great. Still only the people that have never heard it are the only ones that don’t like it, weird. Maybe now they will stop harassing us until they have tried it out? Or are they going to keep trying to pretend like they are the smartest person in the room, and that we need to listen to them 🤔 |
Anybody have issues with getting their Gan 1? I placed an order in early November. At that time they said they'd be shipping in December, but they took my money right away. Having heard nothing I followed up on 12/7. At that point they said they'd be shipping in the second half of December. Having heard nothing I followed up again on 12/27. They said in a week or so. Now its two weeks later. No communication. I get that it is a beta version, not in production. But it costs Peachtree nothing to email a status report. Frustrating.
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Caddock has several model lines. The most commonly available ones are as you say. But they make others which have to be custom ordered and they are better than the Vishays. Vishay owns Caddock FWIW, and has seen fit to not mess with them when they bought Caddock out.
We have to meet FCC and EU Directives (for the CE mark) since we’re an actual company. The CE mark is required for export to Europe. Some of the equipment that you worked on may have borne the CE or FCC mark; which means that it may have done so illegally after modification. Quite often that escapes notice but it can be a pain for the owner if they don’t realize why their tuner has so much interference. If you’re not doing testing you are doing your customers no favors; makes no difference how long you might have been doing the work other than it might mean a greater legacy of interference. If you were to measure and certify the noise generated, you might on occasion find a unit that does not meet criteria right out of the box and you might be able to come up with a fix. But without radiation measurement you’ll have no idea.
This is speculation on your part. I’ll give you a little tip: most toroid transformer manufacturers will include a steel bolt for mounting the part. But if you use it and spend some time with the installation, you’ll find that the bolt gets hotter than the transformer since its a magnetic short. We found this out back in the 1980s and so use non-magnetic stainless bolts. This causes the transformer to draw less current and run cooler. My point here is you have jumped to a conclusion based on a made up story about what we do or don’t do. If you want street cred, refrain from talking about things of which you have no idea. |
@atmasphere is right and I feel Ralph's credentials are more impressive than Rick's or others posting in this tread (myself included for sure) Rick and others should heed Ralphs words.
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Let’s see......you use a custom Caddock resistor that you did extensive listening tests versus the latest parallel nude Vishay resistors? Really? How many brands of surface mount resistor did you listen to before using the ones in your class D amp? What other parts did you listen to? So, tell us your story of how you listened to everything including the op amps you use in the input. You have already stated that you thought op amps have no sound (are neutral). This has been refuted by hundreds of posts all over the net. Let us hear your story....if you think I am making up a story about you. I only can know what you reveal.....and by the way you state things......is what I reflect. So, give us some beef. What do you listen to? Every brand of solder, resistor, cap, wire, jack, etc?.....or just a Caddock resistor.....20 or more years ago. Man, you are really hung up on radiation....again....get a faraday cage. Again, none of my customers of my modded class D amps for 20 years have ever had a problem....Your possible problem is that you have a new amp and you don’t want me to touch it because I would make it sound better (ny assumption....since I have always been able to make something sound better) and then you would have to answer to that......that could be a problem for you. ....not me or my customers. However, I doubt that anyone would want to send their $5400 amps to me to void the warrantee and lose resale value.......but maybe there is someone who is REALLY a hot rodder......maybe they want to find out what are the possiblilities that I could provide....but, I doubt it. You are safe. Toroidal transformers do not need a steel bolt through the middle of them and a steel plate to run cool and safe.....and you know it. However, any conductive material (magnetic or not) around or though the transformer WRECKS the sound. Any of you that want to experiment and find out what this tweak does:......just remove the steel bolt and plate and raise the transformer off the chassis using a quarter inch piece of wood.....Listen and grin.....You can use a little Amazing Goop underneath the transformer to make sure it does not slide around......and if you need to put the hardware back to ship it or sell it.....no problem. Your ears will love the difference this "tweak" does. I have been doing this for over 30 years......and those that have tried it are ALL in agreement on its benefits. We all deserve this kind of attention by manufacturers....ones that know that everything makes a difference......Certainly at the lower price points we do not expect the Chinese companies, etc. to do tweaking.....but anything above $3K.....and sold direct.....I would hope so. High end audio has no common knowledge....It is every man for himself. There is no proof that anything sounds a certain way. No double blind tests have ever been done on various amounts of measured distortion or distortion types...NEVER. The ASR people have NO PROOF that their numbers correlate to sound. It is just their opinion.....so their opinion has no weight as there are no listening tests to back up their opinion.....the only thing that is important is how something SOUNDS......YOUR OPINION is the only one that counts for your listening pleasure......trust your self....trust your ears....you know what you like....you know what "sounds best".....to YOU. I respect and love everyone.....but I do tell my experience.....my truth about what things "sound like". I listen and experiment and am always learning. I assume very little....I am always growing in my direct knowledge because I try new things.....I try and stay open.....open mind....open heart I wish you all the best sound possible and the best life possible by embracing each moment......each miraculous second.....with joy and love. There is nothing but God loving itself......and you are IT.
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@arafiq I know right. Ricks credibility is diminishing by the second. Maybe Ralph is right about radiation. |
@arafiq +10, @donnylovely , we are responsible for our action and what we write.
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I will write on whichever forum I choose to! And for the record, I don’t have a problem with the Peachtree products at all. But, if a vendor is going to come here and start selling his or her services on a hobbyist forum, then, yes, I reserve the right to question the motives. I’m not asking the vendor to refrain from using the forums as free advertisements (as much as I abhor the practice) as that is really between him and audiogon owners. But I’m well within my rights to tell him what I think of the product (or service in this case). |
@donnylovely I am with @arafiq on this and he has made very valid points as has Ralph and others. No one is knocking the PT platform just the financial motives of one member who cannot back up his science or engineering. Free speech and no one is violating the Agon P&P. So did you send your PT Rick already? |
Opamps: the more important aspects are the open loop gain and Gain Bandwidth Product. These days most opamps have enough of either that as long as you don't ask more than about 20dB of gain then they will be neutral. Ask more and their 'sound' comes out. Older opamps from the 60s and 70s in particular weren't so good- so if repairing older guitar effects pedals you can mess up their 'sound' using newer opamps. How GBP works is if you don't have enough, feedback falls off on a 6dB slope. When the feedback falls off distortion goes up. So when designing opamp circuits its a good idea to know these specs and their implications; otherwise expect colorations. Obviously 'hundreds' of posters are either using older opamps or don't know what they are doing.
That you know of... A lot of people new to class D are concerned about its noise interfering with other equipment. When you don't test, you don't know if your mod did damage on its way to trying to get the amp to sound better. I'm not saying you can't make an amp sound better but I am saying that if the amp injects more noise on the AC line or simply radiates more thru the air, it can interfere with other parts of the system, the TV in the next room, that sort of thing. I don't need a faraday cage to live in because we tested our amps... Having built zero feedback class D amps (that is where we started) the thing we noticed is that as you have said, everything makes a difference since there is no correction. Noise is really hard to control; tiny changes you could hardly see in the board can have audible effects on the noise floor of the amp (as heard through the speakers). So I know Peachtree spent quite a lot of non-trivial time getting it right. They had to have been really careful about specs to make sure the parts they were using weren't shooting them in the back. If I were modding one of those amps, I'd want to know everything about it and have talked to the manufacturer (with whom I'd want to be on very good terms), before digging into their work. This might be because I respect how much work goes into the design, the designer that has done the work, and brought home the bacon. |
@jerryg123 Cool story bro, go post it somewhere where people care. |
@atmasphere why don’t you test his mod if you don’t belive him, then tell us. Until then nobody cares, so go post your hate somewhere else. |
Clearly there are indeed people here who care about real engineering, science, and facts. Sorry @donnylovely if the truth hurts. |
@donnylovely There's no hate involved. If that were so my posts would be a lot different 😉 The trick on the internet is to not take things personal. That's when you get into trouble. I don't claim to know everything either- but I've learned that if I have doubts to just not say anything. We found that you have to have really expensive test equipment in order to see the waveforms that make noise in class D GaNFET amps! This is because they can switch at such incredibly high frequencies. Our equipment was right on the edge of that kind of resolution; we had to buy some really expensive probes and the like to be able to sort things out. Otherwise I don't think we'd have been able to meet EU Directives, which one must do in order to export to Europe. Most countries use similar rules (like the UK, China or Japan) so if you can use the CE mark then you're in good shape. So I've trying to be helpful. If Ric did the measurements for noise (I'm not talking distortion, just RFI and noise radiated on the AC line) then its a guarantee that his mods would be more effective too. They go hand in hand.
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@donnylovely Nice Buddy.
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@donnylovely you do know that Ralph has forgotten more about this stuff than you will ever know. He has been designing and manufacturing top tier audio equipment since 1976. Why would he try a single mod by a Shadetree EE. Go learn something Donny.
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You can give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, but if you teach a man to fish he will eat for a lifetime… As long as I have been on here the only thing I have seen Ralph do 99% of the time , is educate the community here so they understand the why…I believe the man deserves a bit of respect… and a pat on the back, considering the amount of time he puts forth doing it… especially to the one’s that talk trash to him… sure he talks and sells his products occasionally, but I think he has paid for that privilege many times over… Steve |
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Why do you care what my other posts are about? It’s new and is what interests me. I want to see what others thought of it as well. If there was another item I was interested in, I would post there also, but I don’t at this time. I like that I no longer need a dac and I only need one interconnect. I like that it sounds better than my previous $4500 amp and dac at less than half the price. I would also like to see how people’s mods work out for them. But this thread has turned into a pissing contest about who knows what and people craping on the product that have no experience with it. |
The digital input likely reduces concerns about the encoding scheme- I would expect it to be quite accurate. But otherwise no. The major distortion source otherwise will be caused by the deadtime required in the output section. Despite the ridiculously high speed of the output devices themselves, quite a bit more deadtime is required because the GaNFETs won't turn off when you tell them to; they need a little 'kick' which is supplied by the output filter choke. When the magnetic field in it collapses, the flyback voltage produced provides the kick. You need time to allow that to happen; hence the deadtime. If it were up the output devices otherwise it would likely be between 1/10th to 1/100th of what it is now, and distortion would be that much lower too.
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