Before I start my post here is my current system for reference:
Auarlic Aries G1 --> Denafrips Terminator or SW1X DAC --> Audio GD HE1 XLR preamp or Sachs preamp --> various tube amps --> Cube Nenuphar Mini's w/ a pair of REL S510 subs. Cables and power conditioning commensurate with the rest of the system.
As warmer months approach I have been looking for a cool running amp to replace my Line Magnetic LM-518 and other tube amps for a few months as they run pretty hot.
I've been interested in the GaN FET amps and just purchased a used LSA Voyager 350 Gan FET amp which I should receive in a few days. I've tried class D amps before and while they checked a lot of boxes I just didn't feel drawn in. However, I like to explore so I figured I'd try the GanFET and since the amp has zero feedback and my speakers seem to prefer amps with little or no feedback I figured it be worth checking out.
Today, Peachtree Audio sent out an email inviting users to a beta of their new Gan 1 amp. Here are some excerpts from their email:
What is the GaN 1?
In basic terms it is a 200 Watts-Per-Channel (WPC) Power Amplifier designed to be the sole interface between your digital audio device with a variable output, like a Bluesound NODE, and your speakers. The GaN 1 is a simple, pure and cost-effective audio solution: connect the GaN 1 to a streamer and a pair of speakers and you have an amazing Hi-Fi system. That's it...no DAC, no preamp and no input switching. The signal path from the music to your speakers is remarkably short and free of artifacts. Want to hear the intricate details in your music that have always been there, but you couldn't quite make them all out before? Then the GaN 1 is for you!
What makes the GaN 1 so special?
First and foremost is the GaN-FET amplifier module. It has several inherent advantages in a power amplifier that even the best MOS-FET designs simply cannot achieve. A GaN-FET power stage provides a precise high-power reproduction of the Class-D PWM signal with extremely high linearity. This linearity eliminates the need for ANY feedback, ultimately allowing for the best possible audio quality providing clean, clear middle and high frequencies and a tight, solid reproduction of low frequencies. GaN-FETs track the complex audio waveforms MUCH more accurately than MOS-FETs, resulting in significantly more transparent and natural sound. The difference is something even a casual listener can hear and appreciate. The GaN 1 is also designed so that it does NOT require a digital-to-analog-converter (DAC). The digital audio signal at the input directs the amplifier outputs to drive the speakers. Although DACs have continued to improve over the years, there is no DAC better than NO DAC! This concept is not new as similar devices known as "Power DACs" made quite a splash in our industry years ago. But this time around, by executing the concept with GaN-FETs, the bar is raised to an entirely new level.
Key Features at a Glance:
200 WPC state-of-the-art GaN-FET module
ZERO feedback design
Regulated 450-Watt power supply
Coaxial S/PDIF input with native support up to 24-bit / 192kHz
DAC-less design
Power on/off trigger port
All aluminum chassis
No cooling fans
This sounded really interesting to me and since I have a good streamer I signed up for the amp beta only. One aspect that intrigues me is to create an extremely minimal signal path. My speakers are single driver, crossover-less design. Employing the GaN 1 will mean the system will be Auralic Aries --> GaN 1 --> Cube Nenuphar Mini's. Will that lead to a more engaging sound vs the full system? Will the Voyager GaN 350 outperform a tube amp in the full system? Who knows, should be fun to find out....
Now, I have no idea how either of these GaN FET amps will work with my speakers. The Cube Nenuphars seem to prefer amps with low damping and no negative feedback, which is more common with SET tube amps and Class A solid state amps. I'm not sure of the damping factor of the GaN FET amps, but both are Zero feedback designs, and both have way more wattage than I need. For reference, I have a 1.5 wpc 45 tube amp that sounds amazing with the Cubes, so high wattage is not required. I am interested though in what these amps will sound like compared to my tube amps, and I am particularly interested in what the streamer direct to amp Peachtree will sound like.
I am also looking to acquire a First Watt SIT-3, which is a great match with the Cubes, but now that they are no longer produced prices have gone above my current comfort level. If I can get one I will throw it into the experiment.
The Peachtree won't be shipped until sometime in June, or possibly later. In the meantime I will get the LSA Voyager in the next few days. I might even be able to get it hooked up this weekend so stay tuned, should be an interesting experiment...
So Ralph, are you saying that the data output (to be sent the the input of the Gan 1) sampled at 96kHz would not necessarily be a restrictive limiting factor to the ultimate performance of the Gan -1?
I am. The limitation is in the word length, not the scan frequency.
Gentlemen. I see that @kuribohas entered this thread. I've crossed swords with him in the past, but on this point of load dependent frequency response he is correct. @ricevs, if you want to find out what the effect of this might be, try a load that varies between 3 and 16 Ohms over the audio band (which is typical of many speakers) and find out what actually happens. Its not sufficient to look at the difference in FR with a simple resistive load.
Now I made a career of building zero feedback OTL tube amplifiers so I have a fair amount of hands-on experience with this. The output impedance of the amplifier plays an enormous role here. So I would expect that the FR of a zero feedback class D amp to be less 'reactive' (if you see what I did there) than that of a tube amp. The variable here though is the output choke, which is a critical part of any class D design, especially a GaNFET, which will require the choke to operate at a lower frequency rather than a higher one, on account of its inductive kickback being used to initiate the off state of the output device.
Its complicated.
Now how much this will affect the audio FR with a variable load is a good question. The On resistance of GaNFETs is stupidly low, so if it were up to them this would be a non-issue. IOW the output filter choke is really the variable. Based on my own experience (since a number of our prototypes were zero feedback) my guess is its a minor issue.
Gentlemen. I see that @kuribohas entered this thread. I've crossed swords with him in the past, but on this point of load dependent frequency response he is correct.
Nice to see we agree on something.
To properly evaluate the performance, a simple constant, purely resistive load is not going to do it. Few speakers present such a simple load.
Additionally, without post filter feedback, there are other issues besides load dependent frequency response that can be present.
In all, it's a poor design in comparison to other currently available class d amps that have orders of magnitude better performance. Just more marketing, all aboard the GaN train!
1db is more of a non-issue than an issue. Sorry we can’t all afford to buy the best preforming amps in the world, that’s more of a non-issue also, always going to be something that preforms better.
1db is more of a non-issue than an issue. Sorry we can’t all afford to buy the best preforming amps in the world, that’s more of a non-issue also, always going to be something that preforms better.
Now you actually admit the frequency response is load dependent after denying it time and again?
The actual performance into a real world varying reactive load is almost certainly materially worse than than 1dB, which is into a best case, non-reactive, constant resistive load.
We can't all afford to buy the most expensive amps but those who can afford the $1500 GaN 1 can certainly do better for the same or less money. There are plenty of better engineered and performing amps available - Ncore, Purifi, and Orchard, etc. are all much better performing and better engineered without riding the GaN marketing coat tails.
Are you serious? None of those amps preform better. Those 3 sound awful. Lay off the kool-aid. You really need to listen to those amps next to the gan 1 before you go spouting off.
@donnylovelyThx. I always thought better conductors, better connectors and more secure connections make a difference. I really don’t remember how the amp sounded stock. It was good, but sounds really good now. I’ll have the ability to compare when I get my 2nd amp. Should be an interesting listen.
Your GaN measures poorly compared to Hypex, Purifi, Orchard, etc. That's a fact. You say the GaN sounds great, that's just your opinion. I know people who think their computer speakers sound great. So what. Opinions mean nothing. Try again.
On one hand the "measurements are everything" people (Kuribo, ASR people) say that all amps sound the same......so don't listen to them. On the other hand they love low distortion measurements.....so they say buy the ones with best measurements (that they like).
Pretty silly way to get a great SOUNDING system. Just trust the nerds....they are always right. Please no not listen for yourself and choose the one that sounds best to you. Two people on this thread prefer the GaN 1 to their Purifi amps..........but what do they know!?!.....they just did listening comparison tests in their system......they did not measure. listening tests mean nothing....the only thing that matters is how it measures......everyone knows this!......ha ha.
Poor anti tweak, anti listening objectivists.....they have nothing better to do but bother people who want good sound.......and who listen.
BTW, my computer Altec speakers sound great.....paid $29 at Fry's for them years ago.....powered....little woofer on floor...amazing sound. Seriously. Not as good as my big rig......but makes me laugh, cry and dance with delight. May you all be merry this season and every day of the year. Every day is Christmas.....every day is your Birthday......celebrate good times, come on!
They’re too scared to actually listen to it. What if they actually like it? Their brain might melt.
It’s returnable, idk what that kid has to lose. If he bought it, then he might actually know what he was taking about. He does seem oddly infatuated with it for not having listened to it.
Let the good times roll! I just put an order for the Gan 1. I will see if it can replace 10K+ worth of gear and cables. My current streamer is a bluesound node 2i powered by an LPS. I currently use a Shunyata Omega Clock 75 digital cable between the node 2i and my DAC. I will also test with a HoloAudio Red streamer and an LKS DDC when they arrive.
My system is already on a Giandel inverter and battery thanks to ricevs. I'm currently using a Puritan PSM 136 power conditioner but I'm also expecting a Shunyata Typhon T2 conditioner in a few weeks. The T2 has two outlets. If I simplify the system down to the Gan 1 and a streamer then just the T2 would be perfect and simple.
If I end up selling my DAC and amp, that can easily fund purchasing a Grimm MU1 streamer which may be the ultimate mate with the Gan 1. The MU1's specialty is 176.4/192KHz over SPDIF. The MU1 was my former streamer.
@sirnuiDamn, that's a serious system. Idk if the gan 1 can best it or not, but I am super intested to hear your comparison. That would be pretty crazy if the gan 1 is better. Also super intested in your thoughts with the different streamers and this amp. Enjoy!
They’re too scared to actually listen to it. What if they actually like it? Their brain might melt.
Scared? Of what? Lol, I've read a lot of bs here but that sets a new standard.
Is there some logical reason that an amp can't both measure and sound good? Great, you like it! Doesn't mean it isn't poorly designed and falls drastically short compared to other cheaper amps. The only thing scary here is the ignorance.
@kuribo yeah your ignorance. You haven’t listened to it yet. drastically short? How so? Which measurement? You keep saying it’s worse but have given 0 examples. Old tech? Like class a, class a/b? Lots of old tech in amps. Being old doesn't mean anything
Old tech, this is class d circa 1985. Without any actual understanding or knowledge of class d, that doesn't mean anything to you. The technology has matured and is now capable of much better than out of date designs without post filter feedback. But ignorance is bliss. Enjoy!
By the way, the measurements are out there. Get off your hind end and find if you actually have any interest in intelligently discussing this amps shortcomings. Otherwise you, like your amp, are just distortion boxes.
@kuribo You obviously haven’t looked at the design to tell if that’s true or not. How much better can it be? What specifically would you do differently? Where are these mythical measurements of yours? How come you’re the only one that can see them? Why won't you share them with us? I’m thinking they don’t exist. The measurements just post seemed like they were news to you. 🤔 So weird. It’s almost like you have no idea what you’re talking about and that you just made up a story in your head so that you could practice being bitter. Why are you keeping them a secret? Oh why lol
You obviously haven’t looked at the design to tell if that's true or not. . Where are these mythical measurements of yours?
I have looked at the design and the data sheets while you clearly haven't. Nor do you understand what an output filter is, nor what the implications are of open loop (zero feedback) design. The more you shoot your mouth off the more obvious it is that you have no idea of the issues.
@kuriboWhat would you change with the output filter then? What do you see wrong with the design other than it being "old"? How come you are not sharing any of the info with us still? How come the measurements just posted was news to you? Why can’t you give us any facts? Why do you just avoid the topics and complain about some other random thing?
Come back after you have learned something about class d. I have made the issues with this amp abundantly clear to anyone with a minimum of technical knowledge about class d amp design. You can find the data sheets on Mauser, and there is all you need to know about class d amp design and theory at the link I posted below. It's not worth my time to continue this one sided discussion.
@kuriboDo you mean Mouser? searched DigiGaN-200s RevA and Gan 1, got nothing. Are you sure you weren’t looking at another amp?...You made up issues but no proof of such issues. You had to get the data from someone else for the one "issue" (more of a nonissue, since it’s not audible) that you were talking about when you supposedly had all the measurements. I am back I have learned something, that you don’t know anything about the gan 1 at all except for what people have told you today....Only one-sided because you are not answering any of the questions, just deflecting.
@donnylovelyIt's fun to read about other folk's experiences with their gear but it's more fun to partake in the listening myself in the comfort of my home and within the familiarity of my system 😁
@dolfanI bought a power interface converter for my Node 2i from PD Creative based in Poland. I did the installation myself. They also make a similar unit for the Node (gen 3).
I will share the results of all my experiments here in this forum so stay tuned.
I got the pd creative linear power board for the newer node. I would say it's worth it. The expensive part is the actual power supply that you plug into the board. It's super easy to install. It provides a nice improvement in sound quality.
I got my LKS LPS-25-USB 5V linear power supply for my yet to arrive LKS DDC for less than $90 shipped from AliExpress. So while I waited for the LKS DDC, I put the LPS on the Node 2i and I was surprised how good the system sounds. I now prefer this SPDIF implementation into my DAC over the USB implementation I was using. My SPDIF implementatuon also uses a megabucks digital cable so that probably plays a big part in the sound quality. YMMV
I am thinking of using the GAN1 amp in my office and moving my Benchmark gear to the Livingroom so I can buy my Livingroom speaker faster (save on amp costs). By doing this I would lose the ability to listen to my tuner on a very high-quality local station for 3 hours each morning, however, I could use my headphones for that with the separate headphone amp (built-in pre).
The second thing that I would lose is the integration of my sub (via my preamp), a KEF KC62 sub and KEF LS50 Meta speakers. Can anyone recommend some way to integrate these 2 with the GAN1. I do not want to use the Bluesound Node. I like my Fibre streaming using my Sonore OpticalRendu and want to work with this streamer.
@yyzsantabarbara You can use the speaker-level inputs on that sub. You could hook up your tuner to it with the Minidsp Flex Digital ($500) which will give you a ton of other options as well. You could even use your current preamp with the Minidsp Flex Digital and run your sub off the preamp still.
@donnylovelyThanks I think this is likely what I need,
The miniDSP Flex has many applications including as a compact digital stereo preamp, subwoofer integration and optimization to active speakers, home theater and recording studio implementations.
Keep in mind that the MiniDSP Flex only outputs at 96kHz on it's SPDIF connections so the MiniDSP/GAN 1 chain can't take advantage any any higher bit rate streams from the server. Does anyone see this as a disadvantage to using a conventional DAC/analogue amplifier chain?
@dspringham I thought that was just for Bluetooth? I am sure it will be an issue for some. Wouldn't be an issue for me personally. I don't think it would be an issue for most, considering the price category. I don't think it will be a huge audible difference between 96 and 192, at least on my system.
So Ralph, are you saying that the data output (to be sent the the input of the Gan 1) sampled at 96kHz would not necessarily be a restrictive limiting factor to the ultimate performance of the Gan -1?
I am. The limitation is in the word length, not the scan frequency.
I just rewatched the Youtube review of the GaN 400 and Pre DAC by Thomas & Stereo. Many of the good qualities he described of that pair is what I look for in my music. If the GaN 1 can get me all of those qualities and more, then I would be very happy.
I just bought a used Lumin U1 Mini specifically for the LEEDH volume control. I’m still waiting for the Holo Audio Red streamer which will now be used in DDC mode with the U1 Mini. I’m very eager to listen to all of this.
Are zero feedback amplifier designs like the GaN 1 susceptible to speaker impedance?"
The short answer is yes. The longer answer, for the GaN 1, is that a 4 Ohm speaker load will generate a ~1dB softer top-octave response. Below are the actual AP measurements showing the GaN 1 amp module with an 8 Ohm load (top lines in cyan and green) and a 4 Ohm load (bottom lines in yellow and red). You can see they are flat lines until ~4-5K, then the 4 Ohm load creates as gentle rolloff of about ~1.2dB at 20K compared to an 8 Ohm load.
What does THAT sound like? Many probably won’t even notice it due to their own hearing sensitivity at those frequencies, but some may perceive it as an ever so slightly "laid back" or "polite" presentation.
We do NOT "voice" the GaN 1 to sound any particular way as you can see. It is ruler flat with an 8 Ohm load, but we do get frequently asked "what will MY speakers sound like with the GaN 1?" And below is the most objective answer we can provide.
Unfortunately, what we haven’t figured out how to measure yet is how to chart how open and transparent the GaN 1 sounds. The ear/brain is an incredibly complex system and this is one instance where the measurements are FAR less meaningful to what will actually be heard. Compared to pretty much any other amplifier we have put up against the GaN 1, the difference is NOT subtle.
I know some digital cables should not be too long. What is the max length suggested for SPDIF cables. I have a great location to put the GAN1 amp (for headphone use) and I would get a lot less grief from the wife if I could hide my 2 streamer units in the TV cabinet. Then have a 10-foot SPDIF cable to the GAN1 running under a carpet. Maybe not audiophile but musicphile also works for me.
@kitsap2This video will describe my 2 headphones. I have 2 of the older RAAL amp interface boxes ($700) to the SR1a earphones. My older amp interface box will not work with the circumoral CA-1a headphone, but I have 2 other dedicated headphone amps in the house for that one. I say all of this while not being a fan of regular headphones. The SR1a do not sound like headphones and the reviewer below did not like them for that reason.
I will be using the GAN1 with 1 of my existing RAAL amp interface boxes. I am now reading that the tone of the GAN1 amp is slightly warm, this is great for the SR1a.
The SR1a earphones are my very best setup and I know three 2-channel people that sold their 2-channel system, including someone with Magico, because the SR1a was comparable or better.
The GAN1 will be compared against the following amps I have used with the SR1a. I know for sure that it will not be as good as the dedicated RAAL VM-1a amp because the amp interface box is not needed there. However, 2 of the amps listed below got me real close to the VM-1a (the 2 KRELL’s)
Benchmark AHB2 stereo and mono (only amps still in the house)
KRELL K-300i integrated
KRELL DUO 175XD
CODA CSiB integrated
CODA #8
NAD M22 V2
Parasound A21+
LSA Voyager 350 GAN (pre and post EVS mods)
D-Sonic M3a 800s
I will also be using very short Audience AU24SX speaker cables which I bought specifically for this GAN1 + SR1a test. I also have a longer WyWire "Silver" speaker cable to test the GAN1 with my KEF LS50 Meta’s. However, the LS50 test is not that useful to me since I will not be able to integrate my KEF KC62 sub with the GAN1 given my current streaming gear (Sonore opticalRendu).
The best preamp for these amps and the SR1a was the CODA 07x preamp. I no longer have that preamp. The Musetec 005 DAC, a warm-ish and smooth DAC was perfect on the amps above and the 07x. The GAN1 has no preamp and no extra DAC and no interconnects. My very best SR1a 2-channel setup cost close to $30K while the GAN1 setup will be $4800.
You asked a simple question and look what I rambled on about :)
@yyzsantabarbaraYikes! You certainly did answer my question in spades! Thank for enlightening me into the world of specialty products. I'm not at this level of music listening, but it's always fun learning something new.
I have the GaN 1, Bluesound Node, and am really satisfied with that arrangement. If Bluesound made a 200wpc Powernode, I'd have purchased that.
I have not received my GAN1 unit yet but I did receive all the extra streaming parts I listed in a prior post:
WyWiire "Silver" SPDIF cable with BNC to RCA termination
Sonore UltraDigital
a cheap USB cable (I have a WyWIre USB also but I am not bothering to use it since it is used elsewhere)
Sonore OpticalRendu + LPS
Fibre Optical outputs in a nice network switch
ROON
I am posting this because I was worried it would not work and it was also a bit tricky getting this to work. It is working now and sounds really nice on my Musetec 005 (via i2s) and Benchmark DAC3B (via SPDIF). I am using ROON’s volume control and set my Benchmark preamp to a high volume level.
Step 1: Connect all the wires. The UltraDigital is powered by the USB cable from the OpticalRendu. This is likely the weakest point in my setup.
Step 2: Since the Rendu is ROON READY, go to the ROON Client and select the DEVCE SETUP. There is a bug in ROON that does not enable the SAVE button, so change the MQA setting to enable the SAVE button. Press SAVE, then reset the MQA to whatever was set before, then SAVE again.
Step 3: Log onto the Sonore management web site running on your local Sonore web server. It is on the Rendu. it is running at this address, http://www.sonicorbiter.com/
Step 4: Select MANAGE for your Rendu. I have 3 OpticalRendu’s and have renamed them to help identify the endpoint.
Step 5: Click SETTINGS
Step 6: Click ROON READY SETTINGS and change the VOLUME CONTROL to SOFTWARE. Save changes.
Step 7: The volume icon on the lower right of the ROON Client will now allow you to change volume.
Changing the volume is actually done well. It sounds damn fine with my current gear. Benchmark LA4 preamp + Benchmark AHB2 monos + 2 DACs
I got the Gan 1 a couple days ago. Can only compare it to my Classe Sigma integrated. The difference is night and day. I like it. So simple yet so good. Using the Node with it. 2.1 setup for TV and streaming. I posted this in Digital thread earlier by mistake.
I got my GAN1 amp today and set it up with the gear described in my prior post. All is working great. I decided to use my best USB cable too.
The unit is FOB so it is not fair to comment too much, but I am seriously impressed by this unit. The sound is excellent. It sounds clean like my AHB2 amp and also like the LSA Voyager 350 GAN (after EVS mods, GAN1 better than stock LSA Voyager). The digital conversion is really good. There may be something to going DAC-less
It is a shame that I cannot integrate my KEF KC62 sub-woofer with my existing streaming setup and my KEF LS50 Meta. I have no plans to use any other streaming technology, so I am stuck. I like my Sonore OpticalRendu’s.
The GAN1 is a bit of a laid-back sound and thus should be great with my RAAL SR1a earphones. This is going to sound great with the SR1a and so simple. I am going to put this in my Family room where there is no music at the moment.
I also bought a used CODA #16 amp today so I now have 3 amps I will compare later in 2023, Benchmark AHB2 monos, GAN1, and CODA #16 with KEF Blade 2 Meta.
I also have 2 tuners that get at least 3 - 4hours of workout M-F in my office so the GAN1 does not help there.
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