thanks tabl10s. I definitely want to check out th new XA.5 series and compare it to my xa160. |
I just called Pass Labs and the definative answer is "NO". No Upgrade Available! |
If Jtwrace is Clayton dealer his undisclosed endorsement and comment hurts Clayton. Nothing wrong with dealer comments, but you better be transparent aboout it if you want to be taken seriously. That being said, I have heard good things about Clayton amps and trustworthy comparison between the Pass and Clayton would be interesting. Teajay, have you ever given heard the Claytons? |
Jtwrace is a Clayton dealer |
Jtwrace - please describe the difference you heard between Pass and Clayton.
With what other gear?
I am interested in both and would really appreciate understanding the relative merits of each.
Thanks |
Tboooe, I mostly felt I could use some more control in the bass, and a more dynamic sounding amp. I think the "jump" has to do with the more dynamic sound, but they proberbly have much more power, even in a 8 ohms impedance. I do not think I listen to music very loud. If possibly I think you should try a pair of the new XA.5 amps, I am sure you will find them even better and more powerfull, than your superb sounding XA160's. |
leffe, before upgrading did you feel that your xa100 was lacking in power? Your speakers are pretty efficient (89db)with a nominal impedance of 8 ohms. Do you think the "jump" has to do with the new amps being able to increase power as the impedance drops? Do you listen to music very loud? |
I replaced my XA100 with XA100.5 a month ago, and find them to be better amplifiers. They have much more control in the bass, are more detailed, and more dynamic. They are still very easy to listen to, but have more "jump" effect when needed. My speakers are Kharma Exquisite Mini MK2. I still think that the XA series are some of the best I have heard, but the XA.5 are superior amplifiers. |
Teajay, that's all I needed to know. Thanks. |
Audphile 1, I had helped my friend put together his system so each piece, CDP, preamp, speakers, and all wiring I'm very intimate with regarding their sonic signature, and the XA.5 amp in his system sounded no different then my XA-100's as far as I could tell. |
I switched to the Clayton Audio M-200's. What a difference...I love them!!! |
09-02-07: Teajay
Tboooe, I have heard the new XA.5 amps in a very good system and I could not tell the difference between my XA-100's and the new XA.5 amps. So, if I were you I would just relax or put your money in other pieces in your system.
Teajay (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers)
I assume you had the XA-100 there in that system for comparison. Right? |
Thanks Teajay...I am now fully relaxed thank you...not sure what me asking a question has to do with being relaxed though. Thanks again. |
Tboooe, I have heard the new XA.5 amps in a very good system and I could not tell the difference between my XA-100's and the new XA.5 amps. So, if I were you I would just relax or put your money in other pieces in your system. |
I have been very interested in the new XA.5 amps for a while now. I have the XA160 and have a sneaking suspicion (unfounded though) that maybe they are a bit unpowered and perhaps an impedance mismatch for my pre. The new XA100.5 specs shows more power, higher input impedance, and higher damping factor. Has anyone had the chance to listen to any of the now available XA.5 amps? Here is what Nelson Pass said about the new XA.5 amps compared to the current XA series:
They tend to sound like a cross between the earlier XA and X.5
amplifiers.
Comparing the XA.5 to the XA's, our subjective listeners
consistently report:
The soundstage is larger and deeper.
Placement is more accurate.
The bottom end is tighter.
The midrange has greater definition.
There is strong similarity in the upper mid and top end.
Our measurements show:
Greater power, current, speed, and damping.
Lower distortion and noise.
Comparing the XA.5 to the X.5's, we see simiilar results
subjectively, except that the mid and top is smoother.
Objectively, the distortion is lower. |
I drive my x250.5 with Wilson Sophia 2 (89db 4ohm ) meter starts moving around -35db-45db(boulder pre.). However, I can make critic listening just a bit below -50db. That is ,I think, near limits of Class A operation. I didn't sense of any signal of congestion from either speaker and amplifier side.
Keep in mind Wilson Sophia2's impedence drops 3.26 ohm and Pass x-250.5 will not drop more than 4 ohm. |
Not exactly an impulse purchase here in the US either. |
Price change is maybe only for USA. In Europe prices are high enough ;-) |
>>The last informations are that the "official" prices would be unchanged, like when the X.5 replaced the X amps.<<
Prices change 6/4/07. Your local retailer should have that information at this time. |
The last informations are that the "official" prices would be unchanged, like when the X.5 replaced the X amps.
Here in Europe, there was no discount on Pass, so no change for us ! |
Jameswei, thanks for sharing the link......wow, I don't know what to make of that Stereophile article. I'm a little saddened to hear of the new alignment from the end user point of view...but, I can understand businesswise why they are making the changes that they are.
I just hope this isn't a trend that puts the high end further out of reach for audiophiles. |
I expect the new series will be not be available at the kinds of discount we have seen before. Pass seems to be revamping its U.S. profile:
http://stereophile.com/news/050707pass/
(I read on another thread that Peter has left the company.) |
I have found a pdf of the XA100.5 :
http://www.electori.co.jp/PASS/XA100.5.pdf
The 2 big differences are :
selectable gain : 26 or 30 db (the XA100 has only 26 db gain) and a much higher max current : 28 A against 5 A. This point should bring a better power with low impedance speakers.
The other specifications are very close.
The XA60.5 seems to be available too, but no XA160.5 or XA200.5. |
I've found some links to XA100.5 in Japan :
http://joshinweb.jp/audio/5179/2098141150805.html
http://www.e-na.co.jp/joshinweb/product/index.asp?prd_id=2098141150805-31-808
http://ichinose.tblog.jp/?eid=136156
It seems to be available in Toronto too :
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=816362 |
Still no news of the XA.5 amps ?
I've seen on some japan sites that the XA100.5 is presented.
I'm waiting for the XA160.5... |
Very interesting thread. I recently bought a pair of XA160's. I had three different Alephs before then. The Aleph series and X series were around for quite a while. Then came the XA's, then quickly the X.5's and now very suddenly the XA.5's. Product life is getting shorter and shorter. Reno HiFi will have more trade-in (upgrade)business. Pass is a great company with great service and products, but I'm beginning to wonder if they are now building product obsolescence into their business plan. |
sorry gandme, we are not the same. I couldnt help and respond to audiofeil's post though... |
Now I'm confused , Tboooe and joefama...one and the same? |
i am wrong so often that I definitely prefer my humble pie a la mode..adds variety to an otherwise daily occurence :) |
So Joefama, are you all straightened out on the upgrade situation?
Just wondering because you seem to have disappeared.
Do you enjoy humble pie plain or a la mode? |
|
Even though the meter may move, I highly doubt the amp is outputting anywhere near its rated power. All I was trying to do was support gandme's claim that the XA160 can power almost all speakers without a problem. The fact that the meters move indicating a transition from class a to class a/b operation has nothing to do with my contention that I do not believe most people need all that much power. |
Driving VSA jr's, said to be 88 db, the meter would swing to 2 or 3 pm on quite loud levels of big band jazz. And it would regularly swing to 1 pm at "regular" loud levels.
Pass Labs told me the amp could handle much more than what I described, without distorting and the amp would be just fine. |
Tboooe,
I had the X-350 paired w/ Audio Physic Virgo II's. The Virgo's are 4 ohm and 90db. When I listend to Jazz the meter never moved... and I have a large room. But if I put on Led Zepplin 1...
I could get it bounc'in! I think the original 350 was rated 20 watts class A.
Greg |
The meter thing is sure weird. I have 87Db 4ohm speaker in a 25x 18 ft room and play at medium level. The x350.5 meter only moves when I play double bass or organ stuff very loud. I barely shakes a hair on loud orchestral passages. I think the meter moves only when I switch out of class A to AB and I guess 350.5 is at least 50W class A.
With the same speaker, if the Mac meter is correct, I rarely exceed 30W. |
Kevziek is right though, the meter on the XA series is just a "nice-to-have" feature and does not perform any function.
On the X.5 series, the meter, when it starts moving, indicates that bias on the amp is going from Class A to A/B operation.
My B&W N803s make the meter move on my X250.5.
Playing a recording with some decent bass/mid-bass, I have to get the preamp volume above the 10 o'clock position and the meter on the amp starts moving.
But I love the Class A operation of the X250.5 amplifier when listening on low levels. Plenty of drive, slam and detail. |
...the meters do move. I have a pair of Infinity Kappa 9 speakers....they dip to 1 ohm. When I turn it up and want to rock the house, they certainly make the meters on my x-600's move. |
kevziek..calm down dude...no offense meant. I heard the x350.5 with Vienna Acoustics Mahler and at what I consider loud, the meter did not move. And yes, I know that the meters on the XA do not move (I do own them after all).
What speakers do you have? The Mahlers are 90db at a nominal impedance of 6ohms.
Anyway, as I said in my post, this is just my opinion and my experiences.... |
Tbooe, you can't be serious that you haven't seen the meter move on Pass amps. On your XA amp, that series the meter should never move. But on the X series, the meter moves on my 250.5 when I play above anything approaching high medium volume levels. So, I cannot believe your claim that you have listened to other Pass amps at very loud volume and never seen the meter move. What, with 100db horns? |
I suspect that there will be a considerable price difference between a similarly powered X.5 and an XA.5. With the availability of an XA.5 individuals may now be able to choose between the better sound of pure class A or the compromised sound of class AB based on price alone. Previously spending more for the advantages of pure class A ,may have actually limited ones choice of loudspeakers. From a marketing perspective, I would have guessed the opposite would have made more sense. If appropriate attention is paid to providing appropiate lines of appropraite power levels, I believe, that the market place will welcome both a value offered class AB line and a top of the line, no holds barred, cost be damned, class A line. That the top tier may be as accomodating as the lower tier already is, can only help the sales of the top tier to those who can afford it and are willing to pay for it. For those that can't or won't the lower tier will still be available. I can even imagine situations where, some individuals might opt to power the two main channels of a HT system with XA.5 amplification and use X.5's for the surrounds, or bi-amp with XA.5s on top and X.5's on the bottom and still have the same gain. |
Unsound, my point is... if you listen to music at extreme spl's in very large rooms you may need A/B amplification. That is why Pass has the X line products. I think people get the idea that the XA's are not capable of driving difficult loads because Pass also has the X series.
Now they have decided to address this misconception by consumers and give them a class A amp that will double down. What will happen to sales of there X-.5 series?
I don't get it... |
gandme, that is an interesting question. I personally believe that unless the speakers are really inefficient and dips down to less than 4 ohms and the user listens at pretty loud volumes (>90db), most people do not need a whole lot of power. I do not mean to start a war over this but I just happen to believe in quality of power over quantity. I wish I could actuall measure the amp output but my theoretical calculations for my listening conditions shows that I do not really ever need more than 140w. Empirically, I have listened to other Pass amps at very loud volumes and have never seen the meter ever move (according to PAss that means the amp is still operating in Class A).
Anyway, just my opinion... |
Gandme, perhaps I'm mistaken, but, I suspect a bit of sarcasim in your posts. Lest anyone think I have a bias against Pass, let me say that I think the Pass X 1000's may be the best amps I've ever heard and I currently use a Pass designed Threshold.
In answer to your post, I suspect that customers of the entire current Thiel line might get more bang for their buck with Pass' X series amps than with the current XA series amps. Furthermore, I suspect these future XA.5's might just become the ideal amps for these speakers, especially if they offer even greater power. |
How about....... bring out the best the speaker has to offer. I think even Pass Labs would acquiesce and "say the X-600.5 would be a better match for some".. ie, B&W 802D etc. I'm sure there are many other designs that prefer more push/pull s.s.amps or big tube amps( like 100 watts a channel)but do they sound better?
So how about a list of the worst of the best speakers to be paired with the XA-160's, I hope you understand, We want to match these wimpy 160 watt class A mono blocks with a speaker that just will not upen up and speak pure music to YOU under such under powered conditions. |
Gandme, I think you'd have be very specific as to what the criterion for "handle" is. |
Unisound and All
Just for fun...who can name a speaker that would present a load the XA-160's could not handle? Let's try to make a BIG list.... everyone is invited.
Greg |
Joefama,
You cannot send a pair of XA series amps to Pass and have them upgraded to XA.5 series. Perhaps the cost "upgrade" you allude to is the price difference between the current XA model and its' XA.5 counterpart.
Call Peter and get clear on that. You misunderstood.
I have an email from Pass to all dealers stating that very fact.
Agenda? I don't think so. You haven't read enough of my posts old buddy. |
OK, can we get verification that the XA can be upgraded to the XA.5???? |
AudioFeil. I am Not Wrong.
Read my forum. I said they were about to release the XA-.5 series for Pass Labs. When asked about the XA-160 monos about a price Peter told me it would be about $5K per amp for the upgrade "per amplifier".
I said ouch ! Living in CT it would cost about $11K for the upgrades. I only said this because I have a friend who is selling his Pass Labs XA-160's for $7500 cash on the pair.
I don't want to spend $7500 then in the near future spend another $11K if I want the best. Because before the year is up XA-160's will be selling below $6K for the pair. If the XA-160.5 is that much better than the XA-160.
AudioFeil, I know you are a Pass Labs dealer so there clearly is an agenda to sell new product. So say what you want to say. But I talked with Peter Perkins and Nelson Pass recently.
Joe |
Personally I never thought the XA's weren't such a good idea. At those prices, I believe the amps should be able to handle a much wider selection of speakers. I suspect that a great many people who buy speakers that don't drop below 8 Ohms, have a strong preference for tube amps and wouldn't even consider ss alternatives. Even Pass' older top of the line class A Threshold amps had no problem with low impedance speakes. If the XA.5's can really double down and maintain their sonic qualites, I bet they'll have a truly special winner. Perhaps they can do away with the meters to keep the prices down a bit. |
