Pair of Rel S510’s or Carbon Special’s?
I’ve been considering adding subs to my system and am considering whether to go with S510’s or Carbon Specials…. Any thoughts? Here is my situation:
-Very large open room (open concept) with high vaulted ceilings
-B&W 802 D2’s
-Gryphon Diablo 300 amp
-Looking for MILD and subtle bass support for my speakers in my big room. For reference I tried the new, larger B&W 801 D4 speakers with my amp and thought there was way too MUCH bass…
-Despite the large room, the layout makes large subs out of the question. Carbon Specials would work. But size-wise would prefer the slightly smaller S510’s
-Don’t care about home theatre
-I do care about speed and bass definition and quality. The more bass nuance and detail the better.
-I don’t care that much about getting down to the very lowest frequencies. Just need a bit lower than what my 802’s do
-Subs will be positioned about 6” on the outside of each main speaker. This is the ONLY place they could go…
-I’ve invested heavily in quality cabling (Nordost Valhalla 2 speaker cables, AudioQuest Dragon power cord, etc) and have a USB reclocker and network isolation switch. Just pointing out as all these elements have added precision, ambience, clarity and space to the sound of my system.
Anyone with experience in both the S510 and the Carbon Special have any thoughts on which way to go?
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The reason subs next to the speakers may or may not work is the wavelength of say a fifty hertz note is much longer than the higher frequency notes so given the average room size you won’t even hear the note until it has bounced off a wall or two. So subs with more adjustment flexibility might have the advantage. I am also a rel fan and bought mine mostly based on the positive comments here. Good luck !
Ron |
@ronboco that explanation makes perfect sense, thanks! |
I have a pair of S510's and love them. Also had T5i's, which were great for a smaller room. Also have owned Rythmik, JL Audio, and SVS. I think all make good subs, but to me I love the integration and performance from the REL's and Rythmik. Since my subs are really music only I went with REL because I like the high level connection, but Rythmiks are great too. If my room and budget allowed, I'd go with the carbons, even though I'm very happy with the S510's. |
@nyev Wrote:
Bass speed not really but woofer and midrange integration yes. Also, getting the time domain and phase correct is very important for subwoofer integration with the main speakers. Phase and time are both audible and measurable.😎 Mike Here is a good article on the subject See link below: |
Regarding longer low frequency wavelengths and room size - when I was recently testing many highly regarded and top tier speakers, with my amp, I was failing to find any speakers that clicked for me. Most sounded too thin in the upper mids to my ear. At the top of my audition list was the Magico A5’s. I wanted to love these, as I thought the form factor was great and I thought the three large bass drivers would be well suited to my large room with high ceilings. I had read that these speakers had excellent, almost subwoofer level bass and Stereophile’s review stated that bass was actually over-emphasized, even in their larger test room. I was prepared to be blown away and buy them on the spot. But they sounded like crap, and had laughable bass! And here is where room size comes in. The sales guy said that the tiny audition room might be too small for the long wavelengths put out by the A5’s. Also that they only had 250 hours of run time. Also that “you are just not used to a sealed, non-ported speaker design.” Could be all true, but now I’m wondering if it might have entirely been the small room not allowing the bass to reflect. |
@nyev To satisfy my own curiosity I did what someone here advised and I called REL. I also sent them an email describing my set up and the person who called me back had the email in hand ready to review with me. IF the goal is augmenting bass in a HiFi stereo set up and NOT earth shattering sub-bass effects for HT (or a nightclub in your home) then GENERALLY then RELs close to the mains, toed-in, phase at 0, crossover set just under the low frequency response of the mains is a great place to start. Close proximity to the mains is the best chance of integrating timing. Tweaking crossover and gain to get those settings just right for the room/system does take a bit of time. He also said if you have a sub-out from the amp/preamp then try high-level and low level connections and use whatever you think sounds the best. Thanks for the post, I found it interesting and one of the links provided encouraged me to experiment with the 80Hz filter built into my amp. |
@macg19 thanks for following up with Rel and asking about this! Interesting they suggest trying high level and low level too. That contradicts their own marketing, how to videos and instructions where they basically just use high level unless you can’t for some reason. @ronboco sadly I was not able to test Rockports as I never had the opportunity to travel to Goodwin’s in Boston to hear Gryphon + Rockport. That said I’m more than happy with my 802 D2’s I purchased, saving a lot of cash, and by some miracle they truly appear brand new.
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