Optimized Center Channel

@traubr 

Hi Robert

Looking at your photo of your setup, I am interested in the number of drivers you have and their very close proximity to each other.

Hearing loss as one ages typically affects the higher frequencies, and we typically find it hard to differentiate between words that start with “unspoken consonants” like s, t and f.  That’s definitely an area where my audiometrist tests my understanding of spoken words!

An unspoken consonant does not use the vocal cords, and typically occupies frequencies between 2,000 and 8,000-Hz.  The full wavelength at these frequencies is between 17-centimetres and 4-centimetres and half wavelength is therefore between about 4 inches and one inch

Now if the pathlength between your ear and two drivers playing the same frequency differs by half a wavelength, the result is complete cancellation of the sound.  There is a very good video explaining this effect here: Discover the Surprising Flaw in Center Channel Speakers - YouTube .

A couple of experiments you might like to try involve reducing the number of drivers you have at the front of your system.  You could disengage the centre channel, or disengage the left and right speakers and the front height speakers.  Do these options make speech clearer?

Another thing you could try as a temporary experiment is to stand the centre speaker on its end.

I have a 4.4.1 Marantz-based set up, and have deliberately chosen not to use a centre speaker.  However, my main front speakers emulate point-sources of sound, and have exceptional imaging and very large ‘sweet’ areas.

For several decades, I suffered from continual tinnitus – I can remember the moment it suddenly switched on.  But almost as suddenly, it went away again.  Of course, it was competing with those s, t and f sounds!  I hope your tinnitus goes away in time ...

Op, how ChatGPT described the benefits of toe in:

• No or minimal toe-in → wider, more relaxed soundstage, softer treble, less imaging precision.
• Moderate toe-in (drivers aimed just past your shoulders) → balance between width and image focus, slightly more energy in upper mids/treble.
• Full toe-in (aimed directly at your ears) → most precise imaging, slightly brighter tonal balance, more “in your head” presentation.

My speakers recommended starting with no to limited toe in. I went with moderate. 
While the soundstage was slightly reduced, 2 channel imaging & HT dialog was significantly improved.

@signaforce, my journey with toes in and out has been fraught with frustration.  I really do like my speakers but they can tend towards bright.  I finally landed on a combination of equipment, cables, limiting music that exacerbated this and/or dumb luck to get to the point I find myself now, which is a good place.  Early on, I altered the speaker footers to have the front much higher than the rear to point the treble up and over my shoulders.  Slouching also helped .  Aiming the speakers this way and that had impact, but more recent changes to better equipment and cables have thankfully calmed the treble impact.  The wonders of ChatGPT and its synthesis of the knowledge and nonsense of the internet are interesting, and I might fiddle with slight modifications to gauge the impact.  I learned it essential to have tape on the floor to mark the original speaker positions, much like leaving a trail of bread crumbs, in case trial and error leads to big errors.

@richardbrand, thanks for your input.  The phantom center channel (removing my center speaker altogether) is a thought offered by a few, but thaving spent a great deal on that center channel and the notion of not using it bothers me considerably.  Moving the center channel around is a huge problem, as that speaker cable is a shortie and there is no wiggle room to connect to the amp.  I have other cables lying around, so perhaps for experimentation purposes a different position or orientation is worth a go.  I'm hoping against hope my tinnitus, just like yours, disappears.  Fingers crossed on that.

Per recommendations (thanks again), I elevated and pointed the center channel as much towards the listening position as possible, and during my listening session last night, with the volume up a bit higher, dialog and the overall effect of HT surround was better than ever.  It's nice to be going in the right direction.

I just spent a week at a rental house at the Jersey Shore, and boy did I miss my video system’s sound.

I got home last evening, hopped about, was very pleased with what I have achieved with my DBX Soundfield 100 Cross Dispersion Mains and Center Channel. Not huge, not 'awesome' surround, just better intelligibility and a full range character.

I keep my rear speakers so they do their job without much awareness, unless you turn them off, then it collapses to the front, or the content uses them aggressively that you are aware by sound design.

My single sub is out of commission for the past few weeks, it started making funny noises, I just turned it off, I only have it so I don’t miss the impact in Jurassic Park, Black Hawk Down, ....... I’ll look into it one of these days.

DBX Cross Dispersion Method (developed for home theater front speakers):

unique shape/angle of dispersion/multiple tweeters: set up once.  

speaker your side: closer thus more volume, but, direct dispersion from opposite side speaker increases it’s volume, i.e. a trade-off creating wide imaging. Note: their speakers were designed to provide this without altering their toe-in

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I had a ’too efficient’ Klipsch Center, very cool looking, but I tried and prefer the smaller Jamo shown above

Doesn’t an MTM configuration include dedicated midrange driver(s)?