Optimized Center Channel


Many years ago, I bought a seven channel AV receiver and speakers and voila!  home theatre.  No matter that my room layout is far from optimal or the equipment was more mainstream than high end.  Pop in a Blu-Ray and the system came to life.  My system is now 7.2.4 with very good electronics, and despite technology improvements and investment in better equipment, my home theatre experience leaves me wanting just a bit.  Don’t get me wrong, my system is very, very good, and I can hear Atmos at work much of the time, albeit limited by the audio track and ability of my processor to enhance it.  However, it’s not like sitting in an IMAX theatre and having your visual and auditory senses titillated.  But hey—my space isn’t the best and can’t change, my screen does not go from wall to wall, and I don’t have megawatts going into mega speakers and subwoofers placed all around the listening space to bombard me.

 

As DVDs have effectively disappeared, my HT entertainment is brought into my home via streaming.  I attempted to maximize the process with ethernet to fiber converters, a high-end network switch, a highly modified Apple TV-X streaming box, and quality electronics and cables.  Not the best money can buy (that’s not me or my budget) but pretty darned good.

 

HT constitutes 85% of my entertainment time, the remainder is audio.  The audio side of my house has dramatically improved since I first dipped my toe into those waters.  My latest and hopefully one of the last improvements on the audio side is a new amplifier, a Coda 16, which replaced a McIntosh MC152.  I really enjoyed the Mac, but the Coda is another level altogether (at triple the price, it better be).  The clarity, soundstage and power of the Coda puts a smile on my face every time I sit down for a listen.  It has also added considerable weight, punch and presence to my HT experience driving the front L/R speakers.  The dramatic improvement on the audio side made me wonder…

 

My hearing is nowhere near what it used to be, actors don’t enunciate, I watch too many shows from the UK (I suspect the problem is reversed when they watch American shows) and the dialog is not optimally recorded.  As a result, I have subtitles on all the time.  Surely there is a better way.  Thus, and finally, my question to you in the Audigon HT community: how to overcome the dialog dilemma.  Is a dedicated high-end/ audio quality amplifier to drive the all-important center channel the answer?  My Marantz AV10 processor is by no means shabby, but do the Storms, Trinnovs or Lyngdorfs of the world smooth dialog’s rough edges?  My center speaker is a Focal Kanta 2 connected to one of the three 300-watt outputs on an Emotiva XPA-11 Gen 3 amplifier.

 

I appreciate learning how others live with, or have overcome, the dialog issue.  Thanks for your time and input,

Robert

traubr

@mm1tt77 , the Apple TV-X is a conundrum for me.  It was disparaged above, but I appreciate it nonetheless, despite the price of admission.  How does it work?  Secret sauce.  The engineer is quite experienced in the video world and passionate in what he does.  He will not say what specific changes he’s made inside a typical Apple device, aside from a standalone power supply that is critical, and I don’t blame him.  His passion and expertise come across readily in the WBF thread, link here.  I pored over that lengthy thread before I invested, and was finally convinced to push forward, despite their no backsies policy—you buy it, you own it, no home trial, no credit cards.

I’ve been through many iterations of TV streamers: Roku, Fire TV sticks, Fire TV Cube and Nvidia Shield.  I’m not an Apple person and avoided the Apple TV devices.  My last streamer battle was the new Fire Cube versus Shield, and the Shield won due to its AI ability to slightly improve video, and menu.  Why can you spend tens of thousands for music streamers, but TV streamers are under $200?  Well, an opportunity to spend way more presented itself.

When I first got the ATVX, I was underwhelmed and kicking myself for being sucked in.  I reached out to both the seller and engineer, and they counseled patience.  It took a month, but during that time the ATVX composed itself in its new surroundings and finally showed its mettle.  I have a six-year-old Sony Bravia TV, and the picture has always been its strong suit.  The picture now is nothing short of outstanding, so much vibrancy, color and definition.  Clarity when streaming is better than 4K videos played on my 4K player (what a waste that was).  If you are familiar with The Bear on Hulu, a great deal of their episodes are close-ups of the actor’s faces.  The picture now is so clear, you can count every pore.  Per advice of the seller, after the month, I put the Nvidia Shield back into the system for comparison.  Yikes, what a difference!  Where I thought the Nvidia was excellent before, it paled in comparison to the ATVX, just no contest.

Sound is a different story.  Whereas ATVX gives video a significant boost, the sound is perhaps a bit better, but still does not compare to such as True HD or Atmos on a recorded disk.  As many here have pointed out, blame compressed audio when streaming.

Interestingly, the newest Apple TV iteration will debut in a month or two or three, and purportedly it contains an upgrade to pass native audio, rather than process it on the device.  This, according to the cognoscenti, will result in better audio quality.  I believe that change is a software upgrade, so Apple devices like the ATVX will benefit as well.  Btw, the engineer strongly cautions against automatic upgrades, as some wreak havoc on his modifications.  He wants to test them first, then will alert his user community when it’s OK to update the software.  He has not offered info on the coming upgrades, so the value of my investment is still unsettled.

The ATVX has improved my TV streaming.  Transformative?  No, but an improvement.  Note that I also upgraded my ethernet cable from the network switch to it, and that made a nice improvement as well.  Plus, I use a good power cord.  Beauty, and value, are in the eye of the beholder.  Glad to answer more questions, even via message, so as not to bore others.

Robert

OP,

Thanks for sharing about your ATVX experience... wow. I had no idea folks modified these... wow $2.5K. We have Two Bravias and two Fire Cubes, Apple TVs and a Cable box. One of the Apple and Amazon boxes get upgraded every year so they stay in our house two years. Our picture is great, to me. Sonically our HT sounds great, but I find video and audio at the same time very distracting so incremental improvements in picture aren't as important to me. Besides I'm sure I'll be trading our 77" OLED for a 88" or similar soon. 

Great to hear about the nuances of what you have done.

@traubr thanks for all the detail in the Apple TV-X.  That was really in depth and informative.  I even learned something new about a new software update for Apple TV’s, passing the soundtrack through natively.  Good luck with the center channel journey, you inspired me to look into trying my hand at building a new center channels I’ve got a Focal 800V center at the moment.  

In light of the flurry of information and ideas in this thread, during my HT session last night I came to realize the system sounds pretty darned good.  There is nothing wrong with tweaking and wringing all you can out of the system to overcome perceived deficits, and I am now armed with thoughts and strategies, so thank you all for that. I even felt the center channel worked well.  Stuff to play with when the weather gets cold and I'm forced to play indoors...

One of my takeaways from the ATVX thread was how impressed HTers with really nice OLEDs or projectors were after their investment.  The pending Apple TV upgrade has me concerned because the new off-the-shelf device may bridge enough of the gap as to make an AVTX superfluous.  I am eager to hear the engineer's thoughts, as I'm not likely to buy the new ATV and run a comparison.  It's the problem we all face of rapidly changing technology: products purchased a few years ago are superseded by new and improved stuff at potentially lower cost.  Interestingly, the engineer stated often in the thread that the ATV version he modifies is the best that Apple has produced, in a sturdy case that accommodates/ enables the modifications.  A few months time will tell whether my TV streamer victory was pyrrhic.

OP

I had the same problem which you had. in my case,  I just adjusted the DSP settings and re-arrange the position of the front channel. One thing I did differently is that I use REW to study the frequency response of the center channel at the listening position. this allowed me to visualize what I am hearing to what actually is being generated by the speaker. with that, i tweaked all the settings on auddesy and REW to guide me. problem solved

good luck