Dgob, the 268 was impressive but expensive and not better than the ref 3..tubes still complete the picture better for me. Funny, FM stuff is rarely mentioned in high end circles ? |
Hi Downunder, In the world of tubes, the Aesthetix preamps are highly regarded, Einstein has an impressive preamp, we've been making an all tube balanced preamp longer than anyone else...
I guess my point is, why did you go back to CJ after such a limited engagement of other preamps? |
Dave b,
I know that the expense of the FM gear is often a prohibitor and - maybe - one reason why they are not as frequently lauded in popular high end circles. I suspect this is in part a consequence of the company's low profile advertising, geographical location and uncompromising self confidence.
BTW, I've owned various ARC components and they remain the favourite among all tube based amplification that I've owned and/or heard. They seem to present an excellent balance between the best virtues of the most popular tube and ss equipment. Nevertheless, I also think you ought to give the Essential a turn. It could be an even greater advance but that will obviously depend on what picture you ultimately wish to see.
All the best in your listening and enjoyment |
How is the Accuphase C-280 or C-290V? Also contender for best preamp or not? It has lots of electronic parts inside though.
Chris |
Atmasphere
I think I have tried as many pre amps I could get my hand's on, especially living in Sydney and after 3 years of trying and wasting money, time to settle down
Unfortunately one cannot try everything, especially downunder. Remote is a must for me, and Aesthetix has only recently included remote control, einstein from all reports sounds too lean for my tastes.
I have not had any luck with your distributor in WA, as he does not want to demo anything out of WA and has no dealers in Sydney.
I liked the sound of the cj prem16 when I had it so bought a s/h ART. Sounds wonderful and I am off the pre amp merry go round - for pre amps at least :) |
Downunder, I get that. It seems that your situation illustrates the issue that, if there *is* a 'best' preamp, it would be almost impossible to find it, for no other reason than its almost impossible to get your hands on all the possibilities for audition!
I've been told that our distributor in WA is no longer in business; his website is still up but he does not respond to email. |
Atmasphere
That is a pity your distributor is no longer around - unfortunately not surprising. Good luck with finding a new importer. Melb, Sydney or brisbane would be better for all audiophiles.
You guys in the US and Europe don't know how lucky you have it :-)
yes, so for what i have heard the ART is the best and most musical.
cheers |
Dear Atmasphere
Do you support home demos for your audio equipment?
I'd love to listen your top preamp!
George |
Hi George, we do have a demo program. Give us a call for details 651-690-2246 |
How many of you have gone to some of the great concert halls around the USA or the world for that matter! 5th row Boston is full, warm, huge, detailed, airy, extended and crazy dynamic with mind blowing dimensionality...the ref 3 re-creates that effect with commensurate components. Also, how far apart do most of you have your speakers ? These things say alot about how and what you listen for !! |
Dave_b, just curious to hear if you find that sound stage (as presented through much hifi) is not what you experience when presented through these live venues? And do you think that it is interesting to note the differences between home audio norms and the sources that should - in theory - underpin them? |
Well Dgob, their are certainly definite hallmarks of "REAL" music played live. Dynamic contrasts/range and lack of distortion are a couple. Accurate tone is obvious, as well as a sense of ease at all volume levels. All instruments are easily picked out without one overcompeting with another. At home one should get as close as possible to re-creating these parameters...the bref 3 allows an enormous amount of these hallmarks through! Most other preamps sound controlled and stunted to some degree or another. |
Audion Premier Quattro 4 Box Pre-Amp
if you willing to pay that price
you will have one of the greatest pre amp ever |
If VTL REF7.5 or ARC REF3 serves any reference here, I can confidently say that even basic offering from FM Acoustics, their FM245, eclipses them both. In the two separate instances of home demos I experienced where REF3s were replaced, each audition only took a mere 10 minutes into the listening session before their respective owners confirmed a trade-in.
But since both REF3 users were driving SS amps (Burmester & the big Chords), I was first a bit skeptical by the outcomes, thinking that their amps being SS probably a better match for the FMs. Therefore decided to home audition one myself, and partner it with my trusted ARC REF600mkIII for the weekend. This time the dealer loaned me an FM266mkII. Boy were they right.. those FMs were no flukes! Just minutes into the second track upon firing up, I was totally bought and convinced that the improvement wrought in my system (in most musically important aspects) was 'not subtle'. Sad to say that my beloved REF3 was totally outclassed, and that this not insubstantial plunge was actually justifiable!! (however, some might argue based on pricing alone, this was an unfair shoot-out).
Thus having experienced the above, and few other occasions where shoot-out made at friends' home against other top line references from competing ultra hi-end manufacturers (ranging from 2 pieces to 4 box units), many opined that the top line offering from FM Acoustics, their 'single' chassis FM268 (which was yet another notch up or two sonically above their own superb FM266mkII) is definitely still the one to beat should there ever be a shoot-out for the best-of-the-best, cost-no-object, line stage preamp available today.
Look for one (any of them), and audition for yourself! When properly set-up, make sure to feed them good stable AC, FM's Precision IC (a must!), Forceline SC (whenever possible). I'm sure that most will have to agree that these gears are just plain--astonishing! |
Bvdiman,
I agree wholly and maybe those that have now had an opportunity to listen to some of the more high end sources can also comment on this!:~) I've never managed to hear the Essential 3160 with an FM Acoustic power amp but the combination should be very interesting. Maybe in the near future |
Hi Dgob,
15yrs ago when purchasing my FM611, I was actually meant to pair them with an FM266. I didn't, at that particular point of time cos I honestly thought the 266 were 'bad' (for the $$$)--although open, fast, transparent, excellent micro-macro details, they also tended to be rather bright, with high listener fatigue and a touch on the clinical side of things. Thus, much preferred my moded VTL Ultimate and ARC SP11mkII back then.
Only recently (a couple of years ago), had I 'realized' that the FMs gears are actually the more superbly transparent to source, and that those tube gears I loved, kept and lived with then were just doing an excellent job of masking and giving CDs their much needed euphonic blankets, making them just that bit more pleasant and listenable.
Had cd players during those times (early 90's), matured to the stage where they are today, guess I would've raved about these gears (FM As) much much sooner. Well.. they are just ahead of time for me! =) Running FMs (amp & pre) now, the synergy is magical! Sold my ARC REF600 & REF3 3 months ago, do miss their presence and heat at times, still kept their pics though.. hAh!
Btw. coming from you, the Essential 3160 sounds an interesting piece too. Would appreciate if you could share some infos of them. Price? Website?? Thanks.. |
Hi Bvdiman,
Your amp's sound phenomenal and I'd love to hear that set up. The Essential 3160 is a bespoke phonolinepre and I believe that some technological aspects of FM Acoustic's approach influenced aspects of its designers' thinking. You can find out more about the Essential directly from a fellow audiogoner - Raul Ireugas - who you could contact off line at rauliruegas@hotmail.com. My mind boggles at contemplating its potential in your system.
All the best |
Dgob,
Unfortunately, I'm currently residing on other side of the universe--S.E.Asia! But should you happen to come around, I'll be more than happy to have you. Can also show you few other spectacular set-ups here.
Thanks for link re Essential, will look them up. At the moment I'm just too excited, my FM268 has finally arrived! Still breaking them in, learning--fiddling with their built-in linearizer section and enjoying sooo.. much music while at it. I can attest as of now that it is already sounding better than my 'loaner'--as well it should?
Having had the FM266mkII for almost 3 months, and tested them in various highly regarded systems (in where they 'never once' failed to shine), finally got me convinced enough to take the plunge--all the way!! I'm a very happy but a very broke man now.. :')
Rgrds |
Bvdiman,
I'll sure take you up on that offer the next time I come out to that part of the world. In the meantime, I hope you continue to enjoy your music as much as you should. |
Dgob,
Thanks.. Happy listening to you too! |
I would have a look to Jadis JP 80 which I prefered over the ARC ref3
also to the Viola which has the most incredible precision in staging the musicians on differents layers ... just amazing!
and maybe to Jeff Rowland brand new Criterion |
BAT REX ... but it looks like Andrew started and then abandoned this thread in January, 2007, leaving everyone to respond to the black hole! |
11-29-08: Inman29
BAT REX ... but it looks like Andrew started and then abandoned this thread in January, 2007, leaving everyone to respond to the black hole! Unfortunately, that is more the norm than an aberration. |
if there esisted a "best" component in each category, someone would specify the brand name and be able to justify the opinionor so-called knowledge.
the fact that for any component type there are so many suggestions as to what is "best", would seem to indicate that there is no best.
in fact all components are erroenous and they manifest this in different ways. thus, there can be no best amp, preamp, cd player, cable, speaker, power conditioner, etc., as each component has its strengths and weaknesses. |
Mrtennis,
Clearly, your beliefs are firmly held. However, your logic is not so secure: the concept of the "best" is relative to other similar items and must obviously be qualified by criteria for evaluation and judgement (for example, frequency extension, imaging, sound stage, bass definition, pitch, timbral accuracy etc). These all being unavoidably qualified by the noted proximity to actual live performances - high fidelity.
Within these parameters (which I believe is where much audiophile discussion takes place), there can obviously be the best of any component, with the issue being one of "best at what"? A distinct issue is finding people that will agree on the criteria and this moves into the question of "taste". However, again, the issue of taste can be resolved if parameters are estabilished by those wishing to exchange and/or expolore their judgements. Again, the actual live performance is the inevitable and ultimate criteria for validating these judgements.
I think |
God don't need no stinkin' pre-amp, he's got angels to sing live, well sort'a. |
