Sorry if I offended you sir, it was never my intention. That's fine if you consider them mid-fi at best and overpriced but to try to convince me or others otherwise?
Not sure what two Regas you had, maybe old models?
Anyway, I'll respect your opinion as long as you respect mine. |
This is why I love my Basis sitting on Gingko cloud 12 custom. Made a big difference. I want a Vector arm eventually. The separate motor and isolation just works for the cost. Love it. |
Kiko65 Ignorance huh. I have had two Regas. I consider them mid fi at best. Overpriced also. I do not have to resort to name calling sir. You have shown your _________ |
100% agreed Davide256,
Its definitely best for the platter and arm assembly to be suspended independednt of the motor to reduce unwanted vibrations. |
Or to make it light and stiff and sit the TT on a dedicated sandbox to dissipate all external vibrations.
For example, Rega makes the lightest possible chassis with the stiffest possible brace (depending on the model) forming the most rigid possible beam to link the platter bearing and arm mounting.
The turntable itself is a "measuring machine" that measures vibration.
The vibration you described above doesn't actually exist until the platter starts rotating. And that rotational energy comes from the motor. Therefore a great motor is essential, one that can be quiet and steady, reducing noise and vibrations to a minimum.
IMHO, the 2 most important factors in reducing unwanted vibrations to a minimum?
A great tonearm and a great motor with its dedicated power supply unit.
There is no such thing as an arm that wonÂ’t vibrate itself, that wonÂ’t have its own resonances. When the arm moves across the record the bearings will have some friction which will put a load on the stylus. This will give a slightly less than perfect transcription of the vibration in the record.
If the bearings themselves move, then it wonÂ’t be picking up all the vibration that is in the groove. Rega tonearms may not be the pretiest of more functional tonearms on the market. No VTA adjustment mechanism here, but darn good bearings and tightened spindle fit.
A good dedicated TT-PSU anti-vibration circuit will vastly improve power supply regulation, reduce motor noise, and increase stability for all motors.
My point is that a suspended turntable may eliminate unwanted external vibration (same a sandbox) but it does not solve the problem of internal vibrations caused by the motor.
And we are not even getting into belt-driven vs direct driven turntables!
As you can see, I'm a big fan of Rega for its simplicity, affordability, and functionality. But I am no fool to consider Rega engineering to be the best. NOT AT ALL!
Heck, my next TT will be a suspended one, not because of its suspension capabilities, but because of its unique damping technology which, to my ears, is capable of producing the most accurate "sound" available from vinyl at a decent and affordable price; the Townshend Rock 7!
Suspended vs unsuspended? Light vs heavy? BD vs DD? Just a matter of a series of engineering compromises to come up with the best possible product.
Happy listening Davide256! |
Kiko, if you use a separate suspension tuned to the mass of the TT, that should give you audible benefits. The limiting factor is the motor and in general its best for the platter and arm assembly to be suspended independent of the motor so that any motor vibration is filtered by the suspension. |
The turntable serves two major tasks. The easiest task is to turn the record at correct speed and do so introducing the least amount of vibration into the platter and arm assembly. The harder task, the one that makes the big difference if the above is done right, is isolating the platter and arm assembly from vibrations feeding from the surface the TT sits own. This is where huge sound differences can be heard between TT's for low bass, dynamics and micro detail for background instruments. The lazy answer is usually to make the TT heavy but all that does is act as a high pass filter... low frequency vibrations are still entering the TT assembly with little damping. |
Why suspension TTs and not unsuspended with dedicated isolation platforms Davide256? |
You need to improve the physics of your turntable to make a major difference. Suspension turntables are where you should look if you want to make significant improvement (Linn, Sota, Goldmund, etc). Age of the turntable is irrelevant if its taken care off. |
Boy, you must have had a very bad experience with Rega Vernneal. TTs are like cars; some like Mercedes, others BMW, others Lexus, others Audi.
To openly state that Regas are mid-fi compared to other brands demonstrate ignorance on your part. |
Check out VPI Scouts, Classic 1 or 2s, Pro-Ject RPM 9.1s and Clearaudio. Stay away from low end Regas- they are mid fi |
I agree with Zd542, the LO version will sound better, especially with the P-75 in enhancer mode. Killer combo! |
Don't throw your money away! The Scout is one of the few TTs with an upgradeable path all the way up to a a Scoutmaster Plus.
Dynavector pairs extremely well with VPI. The DV20x2L with a DV P-75 in enhancer mode will bring new life to your old Scout.
Then upgrade as funds allow. |
another area that so many don't research enough is phono stage. It makes such a huge difference. To the Basis guy...I just did the same. I could have gotten a lot of tables and I listened to all of the major ones...Basis has ended up blowing me away for the price. |
"Thanks for everyone's help. I decided to wait a while and see if a used Dyna 20x2H comes up on the Gon."
Since you have a SUT, try the low output version. Its a better sounding cart. |
Thanks for everyone's help. I decided to wait a while and see if a used Dyna 20x2H comes up on the Gon. I'll try it on my Scout and make my decision based on what I hear at that time. |
Or upgrade to the new 3D printed arm. That was leaps and bounds better than the standard metal arm. |
The biggest difference in sound will come from your transducers. If the table works well, stick with it. Save your money for a new cartridge. With the scratch you will save, you could move up to a Dynavector XX2 Mk II and have enough to get a matching step-up. If you decide to stretch a bit, you could even go to a Te Kaitora Rua. You would be amazed at what a difference either of those make.
Good luck & happy listening! |
IMHO ,you better get the Classic 1 ,better table,more stable than scout ,better tracker etc . |
"Oh by the way, Bose sells many thousands of speakers more than Vandersteen, so what's your point???"
Since when does Bose make speakers? |
If I upgrade my turntable, it will be by VPI. I have no desire to change brands of turntable. No offense to the Well Tempered owners, but their turntables are much too delicate for my home. I never cared for the sound of them and they look cheaply made. That's just my opinion and I don't understand why the discussion has turned to the Well Tempered when my post specifically states "I am definitely set on the choice of turntable and cartridge". |
First of all, Stan, the dealer in question is not my dealer. I bought a used Well Tempered TT. A current version at that. I've listened to many VPI turntables. Nothing about them jumped out and grabbed my attention. The Well Tempered, on the other hand, did. That is a neutrality and resolution along with a dead quiet background that was amazing. The VPI couldn't match this. This was against a VPI Classic. I know you own VPI and a very big fan of theirs. That's fine by me because everyone has their opinion including myself. Your affiliation with VPI seems almost "personal" and dare I say a little biased? That's your choice. Oh by the way, Bose sells many thousands of speakers more than Vandersteen, so what's your point??? |
Mr. M....what an idiot your dealer is. VPI sells many more turntables (many more sales) than does Well Tempered. Why in the world would he want to give that away. He's in business to make money (probably not for long with this attitude) .......OR......he was removed by VPI from being a dealer for other reasons. |
I second the Well Tempered Labs TT. I have a Amadeus Mk. 2. This turntable simply bests any other TT I have owned or listened to.FWIW, I talked to a dealer who scrapped his VPI line for Well Tempered Labs. Keep in mind this is just an opinion. |
I would instead upgrade cartridge first on the current set up and then see/hear the results. Small steps. |
I owned one of the early VPI Scout turntables and I was very disappointed in the quality of the table/arm combination. I went to the Basis 2001 and I could not believe the difference. Maybe I just got a lemon, with the Scout, but in my opinion there were too many short-comings for a high end TT. |
I just went through listening to table/arm/cart set ups under 5k. I listened to a lot of used tables too. Well Tempered's new tables impressed in each price range. I ended up getting a Basis and am blown away by the value. In listening to used and new VPI tables, I didn't hear the same HUGE sound differences. You have to go listen. If you are spending this kind of money, I assume you have a place to listen. Will they bring the new table to your home to let you hear it? Personally, I'd just try a new cartridge and hear that difference since your table and arm are still very good. |
Your lucky day, I think I've just saved you $3K. How? By daring you to try the 'U-Turn Audio' table. This direct sale unit will bring you better sound, and a very low price. Since its returnable for a full refund, there is little to lose, except your pride in discovering great sound need not cost mega bucks. So, go on line and investigate U-Turn. Hopefully you will save a ton, be able to sell your old table and be happy, ever after. |
