Opinions: PC's with strong lows roll off the highs
In the past months I've been trying quite a few different power cords in my setup. A fellow Agoner that is very knowledgeable about power cords stated that power cords that support strong low end performance generally roll off the highs. More and more, that experience seems consistent with me too. I'd sure like to find a reasonably priced cord (closer to $500) that can support powerful low end performance and maintain extended highs. Do you have an opinion on this based on your experiences? We know this is all system dependent, but have you found a power cord that can perform both frequency extremes with no roll off?
Jmcgrogan2, are you a stalker or a spook? I was attempting to be humble and express my biases, however I have owned many power cords from Purist, Synergistic, Shunyata, PS audio, HarmTech, Transparent, MIT, Cardas, Kimber, Wegrzyn, and some other giant killer cable companies who's names escape me. My experiences bring me to the conclusion that certain products outperform many of the brands offered in a market wrought with mediocrity. Self deprication and candidness should not be misconstrued as a reversal of conviction.
Foster_9, Sorry for drifting off your initial request. I also wondered about Parasound's use of a 12 gauge power cord for their high-current amps. Surely they thought about this when researching cords. It wasn't so long ago, before after-market cords came onto the scene, that manufacturers had 12 gauge or higher hard-wired into their amps. There are a lot of threads on recommended gauge of power cords for high-current application. There are many variables involved.
Audphile1 and Sherod, thanks for your suggestions. However, Tvad (Grant) isn't the one seeking recommendations on power cords. That would be me. Grant did post earlier in this thread the suggestion of a Purist Dominus cord. To his credit, he has quite a bit of experience with a variety of PC's. Audphile1, as far as the suggestion of the Audience and Volex cords, I've had both in my previous systems, and at their price I think they are great value performers. Sherod, I would have to say that Parasound's recommendation of a 12 gauge cord for their high power amp is a bit of a surprise. I have felt for a while now, that a thicker heavier gauge pc (10 gauge at least) would be the most appropriate for high current applications like the HCA 3500.
Tvad, I am using Audience powerChord on the amp. It's been resident on it for a while now, about a year or so. Volex works good on the Pass amp, but Audience and Shunyata Taipan are better, although I moved the Taipan Helix to my preamp because there it sounds best in my system with the current combination of cables I have. Although the difference between Volex, SHunyata Taipan Helix Alpha and Audience powerChord on the amp isn't all that big at all, still, the Audience and Shunyata sound just a tad better, more natural I'd say, especially in the upper mids and treble. But as I mentioned before, the diff isn't probably worth the money. I already had all the cords, so I was able to find the optimum place for each, but yes, on the Pass Labs amplifier, the cord isn't that major of a deal. If the Volex works for you, keep using it, because the improvement you will get with a cord costing 100 times as much as the Volex will be a questionable improvement, in terms of whether or not you'll get your money's worth in sonic gains. Not so much credit to the Volex for being a great power cord, as to the amplifier design. Pass Labs did a good job. Now finally we don't have to spend a fortune on a power cord for a component in order for it to sound the way it's supposed to. I am happy with the Audience powerChord on the amp, that I purchased used right here on Audiogon, although if I didn't have these power cords on hand at the time, I'd probably be happy with the Volex on the amp as well.
Wow, I must say this thread is taking some sharp twists and turns. Musicfile, I have already tried DCCA cords, and they are very good cords. Audphile, I've had 2 Audience cords in the past. I wouldn't mind trying the Transparent MM but that cord costs more than I'd spend retail. Maybe when it starts to show up here.
Dave_b, I'm happy that you found the "Magical" power cord for your equipment. However, as good as the Transparent might be on your Krell, it might not be the "cat's meow" on another brand or type of amp. Thanks for your enthusiasm. I feel the same about my Fusion Impulse power cord on my AH preamp. Oh, if only I could afford to try out all the power cords available to us...
Jmcgrogan2, maybe your web senses are a little dull, but I was having some fun while reminding everyone of the obvious likes and dislikes we all have and are inevitably slaves to. For God's sake man, you had a color picture of the DCCA cable! I'm not a pimp, but I am passionate about what I have found to be the best of class in audio...of that, I stand convicted.
05-22-08: Dave_b Funny, I just read your "foaming at the mouth", or was it drooling, over the DCCA Master PC....it appears we all have our favorites and our biases. MIT rules..Hee Hee Hee:)
Funny yes, every review you have posted is "foaming at the mouth", or is it drooling? So what's it all mean??? At least I'm not pimping the DCCA the way you pimp the MIT/Transparent.
Well said Tvad. A most vivid reminder of that for me is my brothers old sansui 8/Bozak 313 combo which sounded fantastic in his basement with average wires and PC's. The room and the synergy can make up for all the expensive add ons money can buy!!
Funny, I just read your "foaming at the mouth", or was it drooling, over the DCCA Master PC....it appears we all have our favorites and our biases. MIT rules..Hee Hee Hee:)
No, not a dealer, but I have spent a fortune over the years trying "The next best thing!", over and over again. My love of music compels me to try and urge anyone not satisfied with their cabling or system sound to at least demo some of the Transparent or MIT products....they allow the music to come alive! This of course is based on the assumption that music is an integral part of your soul, and not just a passing diversion.
Dave_b, are you a MIT/Transparent dealer? You seem to really be pushing those cords/cables. It's one thing to have an opinion, it's another to keep hammering away at others if they don't share your opinion. Though I do know salesmen that work like that. If you're not a salesman, please give it a rest. We get it, you like MIT/Transparent, now let's move on.
Momental capasity? Maybe instantaneous current capacity is what you are referencing. Heavy gauge wire is superior indeed with proper design and shielding plus I believe in a well designed network ala Transparent or MIT!
The quality of the powercord will determ the purity and the momental capasity of the current led into the powersupply. Add ing more momental capasity will give a stronger bottom by increasing dynamics. That won`t in any way decrease top-end quality. By increasing the powersupplys dynamic capasity high freq distortion will be redused as well. To a not to skilled ear that my sound like a redused top, but fact is that it`s just cleaner.
It`s all about how much current that`s added to the powersupply and the quality;how clean that current is. Stranded cables creates a lot of internal cross-over distortion when current flyes confused between the many tiny conductors. This also dramaticly reduses dynamic capasity as well. Hairthin conductors in it self have wery poor capasity and steals a lot of dynamic power.
Btw; I`m using DIY massive (and shielded) PC`s, nothing comes close to massive, thick massive :)
Look, let's get serious now. First off, your equipment will say alot about what kind of cord/results you can expect to achieve. Putting Mapleshade brass footers and weights on my equipment was a revelation and should be done before you try any more cords. Also, using a product like the MIT Z stabilizer III HG will allow you to make a better judgement on where your system is now and where it needs to progress toward. Cords alone make no sound!
Try Taipan Helix Alpha. Diamnodback and Copperhead are good but not as good as the Taipan and up. Also, have you tried Audience? Not crazy expensive but very good cords. I used to have all Audience powerChords at some point. Couldn't complain about the highs or lows.
Audphile1: no on the Shunyatas. I used to own the Diamondback and Copperhead. I'm trying combinations of different cords as you suggest. Right now I'm using a Purist Dominus Ferrox, 2 Lessloss, and 2 Flavor 4's; I have a MAC HC and a Black Sand Violet Z1 lying around.
this is going to be tough. You may want to consider trying to combine different power cords with different strengths within your system, in order to srike the optimum balance and get the sonics you want. Have you tried any of the recent Shunyata Helix cords?
FYI, I thought my system was slightly rolled off with my Transparent PC's but after using Mapleshade Heavyhats and heavyfeat along with my MIT Z 3 HG power conditioner...well, hello definition!!
Yes, an ARC HD220, ARC Ref3 and an ARC VT100. I also used the previous XL version on Levinson reference gear with great results albeit a little less clear. The new cord has great clarity along with the Transparent wide dynamic range and tremendous frequency extension. Most startling is it's way with instrumental tone or timbre...absolutely lifelike at any volume level!!
Very funny story Dave! Jim, I may have to re-visit the Flavor 4. Joe, I can't bring myself to spend $1k(plus) on a power cord. Sherod, I don't know of anyone doing a Premier mod, and I'm not a diy-type audiophile. But the mod sounds like the ticket. Maybe Cullen will eventually put together a mod for the Premier. Thanks guys.
I found that the Synergistic Precision AC works best on a PPP - Extended highs and wonderful lows. Also, I agree with Ozzy. Once you go all Tesla they will provide EVERYTHING. Now I know why Leica_man keeps preaching it! LOL! ;-)
Foster_9, Does your PS Premier have the standard nickel-plated outlets in it? I have read that replacing these with different ones, i.e. Porter Ports, really smooths out that top end. Thanks for listing your system components. This should help others with common components in being able to recommend a power cord to you. Since the only thing common in my system with yours is the AZ Satori, I hesitate to recommend a cord for your Premier. I currently have a mix of Fusion Audio, Acoustic Zen, and Telwire cords in my system which I'm very pleased with for the moment.
I tryed about 1/2 dozen cords on my PS audio Premier and I always go back to the VH flavor 4 with the Gold connectors, It gives my the best lows as well as the highs without losing the dynamics as I find with other cords. Maybe It's because of the large conductors the flavor 4 uses.
Grant, before I placed the order on the T3 and returned the demo, several days went by, and with additional time the sonic presentation changed to something I could not live with. (this was with over 300 hrs of break in on the cord)I experienced listening fatigue that actually made my ears hurt. Changed my mind on placing the order.
Sherod, the System: Blue Circle BMPH Lessloss pc Modwright Sony 999- Xindak FP Gold pc PS(power supply) 9.0 - DCCA Ref Master pc Raysonic cd128 -Lessloss pc PS Premier- (dealer-given cord) Acoustic Zen Ref Matrix ICs 2 sets Blue Jeans balanced IC Reimer Wind River GS speakers Acoustic Zen Sartori SC Blue Jeans Sub IC's Hsu vtf2 mk2 sub -Ultimate Outlet- Signal Cable Magic pc Earthquake Supernova v12
Cord I'm looking for is for the Premier. Ozzy, I tried the SR Tesla T3.
You guys need to try the new Synergistic Tesla cables. They seem to provide the balance,depth width frequencey extremes this thread is talking about. I too have been a long time cable junkie. Heck I even own my own Audiodharama Cable Cooker.
Foster_9, Please tell us what components, including cables, your system consists of, and in particular, what component do you want this power cord which gives you a balanced frequency response.
I would tend to agree with Foster_9 and his fellow Agoner. When I think back to all of the cords I've been through, the ones that have the most extended, detailed high's tend to lack 'musical weight' in the bass. I say musical weight, because I have heard some of these cords go plenty deep, but their bass tends to be very tight (not necessaily a bad thing), so they don't sound as full, or have the 'apparent' bass punch of some other cords. The cords that I've heard that have full, robust bass, tend not to have the speed or resolution to make the high's airy and extended.
I think the best thing to try to do is to balance the cords through the system, not use all of one type. Play around a little using 'full-bodied' cords in combination with 'resolving' cords to balance the sound to your tastes.
FWIW, I've also noticed that a cord's soundstage is give and take too. Cords that have a deeper, 3-D stage tend to lack the width and height of more forward cords. Cords that are too forward offer a large 2-D soundstage. I prefer a 3-D stage, I don't care for the 'front row' perspective, but I have heard too deep, where the band seems to be playing out in my driveway. Again, IMHO the key is balance. Experimenting with various cords until the stage size, like bass weight and high's, are balanced to the taste of the system owner.
Looking for one magical cord that can do all things on all gear is chasing the impossible dream, IMHO.
Let me tell a story 'bout a man named dave owned so many power cords, barely kept his family fed then one day he was tryin out some brand new cords again when out from his sytem came a bubblin pool of sound that is extended bass pure highs dynamic The Transparent MM reference!!
When you get done playing the field and desire a power cord that will give you a paradigm shift in what you thought was possible ...borrow a couple from the cable company
If you deeply appreciate music, you must demo them! You just may find it impossible not to own them.
Knownothing, for me no, the Flavor 4 cords do not roll of the highs or the bass. I'd say the Flavor 4 does not emphasize either extreme. They have good bass and good highs as well.
Curious, do the Flavor cords roll off the highs or the bass? What I hear you saying is that its an either or proposition with your current stable of cables. I am thinking of going this route and would like to hear your experience with these wires.
Also, have you contacted the Cable Company and asked their advice on possible cords to try? They were pretty responsive when I contacted them about PCs for digital front ends.
foster...the manufacturers poer cord may just be the balanced one. its funny how consumers think that no matter how good a product is, the cord thats made for it, must be a toss off.
Check out VH Audio Flavor 4 Power cords ( Gold Edition ) ..I have been using them for quite awhile on my Thor TPA 30 watt monos and have been very pleased with them. I realize there are better ( but more expensive ) cords available but at the $300 each price point they are hard to beat..Great all around cords.....
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