The REL ST series of subs that use the AB class amps are the ones to seek out IMHO. Try a Stadium lll with the amp/crossover removed from the enclosure and use the exact same speaker cable as the main speakers use and be prepared for an absolute revelatory experience.
I use MIT Shotgun S3.1 biwire speaker cable from my amp to speakers and use the same from the Stadium lll amp to the sub and a rear placed Strata lll sub for absolutely seemless integration and bottomless extension. One cannot tell the subs are even in operation.
I do have full ASC tube traps in the room along with golden Sound acoustic disc corner treatment. The soundstage is huge when the recording is such and deep and tight when otherwise. Yes, unconventional but oh so worth it! |
I don't think of subs a musical at all....I use them to correct room resonances, and make mids and highs cleaner/clearer.
|
The key word was "normally". Low frequencies cover quite a range. In any case, those who make speakers with those woofers down under can have them for themselves. |
Sorry @murphythecat I misread something. :) Neutrik makes a lot of connectors, and in this case the confusion was that I was talking about XLR and you were talking about speaker connectors.
Best,
Erik
|
Many high end full range speakers actually do have downward firing woofers or ports, and a basic understanding of acoustics can go a long way to getting better sound. Also, Neutric makes great XLR plugs but the Speakon plug (love those things…use 'em in pro audio) used for the REL "high level" input is somewhat unique to Neutrik as I think they invented it (el cheapo copies are around). Friggin' Lichtenstein. |
the neutrik connection take the signal from the terminals of the speaker amp. how can you use mini dsp? you cant...
|
@murphythecat
You can put the mini DSP just in the sub, and when you are facing narrow EQ peaks of 20x power, it’s far better than not. Properly set up, it’s heavenly, and I don’t think anyone would be able to tell that there’s another step in the loop, except by the musicality, dynamic range and seamless integration. :D :D The purist alternative of course is to do this purely with bass traps and acoustic tuning, which I've only ever seen done at a Magico demo room. EQ should follow after room acoustics though, they enable the rest.
It’s no different at all than using a sub with a built in digital EQ.
Um, Neutrik IS the XLR connector they ship with, so not sure where you got that idea. I’m looking at mine now.
Best,
Erik
|
erik, mini dsp require to have a additional DA. not for me :)
and the advantage of rel is neutrik connection. mini dsp cannot be use with rel neutrik |
@murphythecat
In which case a miniDSP unit would provide a better crossover. Certainly more flexibility. :)
If the sub doesn't come with an EQ capability built in it's pretty much mandatory in most homes.
Best,
Erik
|
just be careful with the xo. even when you set the xo at 30hz, the rel T series are -6db at 55-60hz
so ime, matching mains that are -3db at 40 or even 50hz will not integrate with rel t series. |
Are you saying that in this aspect there is no difference betwen front firing and downfiring subs? Sure, what you say about reinforcement is true, but in full range speakers bass woofers don't normally fire downwards. |
Bass from any sub (on the floor) will "massage the floor" regardless of the speaker orientation as bass notes crawl along and are reinforced by any nearby flat surface. An acoustic unavoidable reality. I have both front and floor firing subs (2 RELs in the main listening rig, one front and the other floor firing, and a large Mackie in my recording studio area that has both a front passive radiator and a down firing driver) and they sound very "musical" when placed and driven properly. |
Anyone put forward firing sub right between main speakers? I asked about forward firing because I wouldn't want it to fire downwards, I would want it to play music not massage the floor. |
All subwoofer's are the spawn of the devil. Beautiful when subjugated, but nightmares otherwise.
A smaller sub with higher f3 (-3 dB point) will tend to be easier to integrate with the room so many listeners think they are faster somehow, or more musical. Well, no, they just get along with the room better with less effort. They don't try as hard to ring the room modes in the depths.
If you want to get a larger sub that can do 20 Hz with low distortion and high output WELL, you'll need to consider bass traps as part of your solution, and have some sort of great EQ and a way to properly measure the main and sub woofer responses.
I guess my main message is: Subwoofers are not anything like your main speakers. They almost never are just drop, plug and play. The bigger, the more difficult, but more rewarding.
Best,
Erik
|
All REL products are very musical and very easy to integrate into any system. One has to decide which size woofer is suitable for their needs.
The Britannia Series was excellent and affordable.
|
Luvwine, furseth2 or anyone!
What power cord are you using on your Rel sub? I'm having good luck upgrading to a PS Audio Statement SC power cord over stock, but its too long in lenght. Therefore, I going to sell it and try sometinhg else. Thanks! |
If you are using a rel sub for music stick with the ones with the linear amps,which are much more musical ,for HT you can use the ones with the digital amps .which have more of that overused word ,,bass slam . |
I too have been very happy with the Rel B1. It is plenty deep and powerful for HT, but is an excellent complement to my Vienna Acoustic Beethoven mains--filling out the low bass without calling attention to itself. The crosover options allow truly seamless integration and the connection to the stereo amp allows a color match as well. Great musical unit. Also, it is wonderful to be able to drive the sub from both the LFE input for HT and from the Speakon connector for stereo with separate gain controls for each and not to have to fiddle with the sub when going from stereo to HT and vice versa. |
I have a Stadium II and agree with Paufolbrecht word for word. My main speakers are also full range (almost) and crossing over the Rel really low just fills in that last lower bit... it's subtle but definitely there; but it's the ability to add even more solidity to the images which is their most appreciated virtue IMHO. While I have upgraded its power cord to a moderately priced unit it was not until I upgraded the stock speakon cable (from amp's speaker terminals) with a Signal Cable Company Rel Speakon cable ( a considerably higher gauge and quality over the stock) that I really noticed the pronounced benefit(s) of the Rel. If I had to choose, this would be my first upgrade to the unit. The Stadium II has been with me through M/L Aerius I's, Audio Physic Tempo III's and currently on my Sonata II's... I can't imagine not keeping it with any speaker I can think of in my foreseeable future. It's that good. As far as comparing it to other Rel's, this was the only one I auditioned but it leads me to believe this is at least the right BRAND you should be investigating.. Good luck and happy Lissnin'. |
I've got a Stadium III, and I must say that after years of Velodyne and Carver subs this thing was a revlation - it is SO tight & fast & musical and integrates so well! My speakers are definitely full-range and I set the Stadiums xover at 30hz, but this adds such a weight & foundation to the music that it is hard to overstate (on jazz and a lot of other stuff).
When it comes to RELs, don't worry about driver size. This model has a 10" driver yet goes lower than 12" or even 15" driver models from other manufacturers. The enclosure, yes, is quite large which is certainly a part of that.
I can't really answer your question re: which REL model, but wanted to let you know that you can get incredible results out of one 10" driver when it comes to REL. My room is very large as well. I suppose that setting the xover as low as I do makes things a bit easier, but then those sub-30 freqs are the ones that take all the muscle anyway. |
I've tried and heard in the past most of the rels, stampede, strata 3, 5, quake, qq150e, britannia series & other rel models i cant remember.
Based on what i heard, the Britannia series either the B3 or the B1 are really very good. The B1 esp goes quite deep and fast, not to mention tuneful.
I'm curious how this one would fare with the studio or stadium or stentor since i havent heard these models.
I'm curious what powercords you guys are using with this sub. |
Hi furseth2, What power cable are you using on your B3? I have a B3 and I am just curious. Also, do you like the power cord? Thanks! |
Pedrillo, I went with the smallest of the Britannia series (B3) and I upgraded the power cord. these subs have alot of options and put out fast tuneful bass. Hope this helps. |
I have a REL Studio that is wonderful! Two 10" drivers, very musical (and works well for HT). I've tried the Stadium, but couldn't listen to it after having the Studio. Of course setup, though easy, is key. They're rare used on A'gon, but if you can nab one, I'd recommend it. Yes, two drivers work better than one and smaller size drivers are faster. |
