We're all wishing you and your dad well.
Marty |
Rebbi - hope all is well. |
Everybody,
Thanks so much for the good wishes. Dad is being released from the hospital to go home today. He had triple bypass. Thank God, it looks like we will get to celebrate his 87th birthday in just 8 days. He's doing very well.
Feel free to return this thread to your regularly scheduled programming. I hope to be back posting here soon. |
REbbe,
Glad to hear about Dad.
Does he like music? Let him listen to some stuff he likes your system if possible during recovery! |
Mapman,
Yeah, he loves music. I never thought of that for some reason. I've got Fiedler on Chesky vinyl conducting Rhapsody In Blue and American In Paris that should sound wonderful on the Ohms. And he likes light opera, too.
Oh, and while we're on that subject, anybody know of a good sounding recording of Gilbert and Sullivan's ”The Mikado?” That's a favorite of his.
Thanks for the idea, Mapman! |
Haven't heard Mikado in years, but my first instinct would be to go with the classic D'Oyly Carte performances that were issued on stereo London records box sets back in the 50s or early 60's, I believe. Those are the ones I grew up with. Remastered to CD, if available, would be nice as well I would think. |
I have read a lot about the OHM Walsh speakers. All of you seem to like these speakers. I am running a 100 watt triode mono amps with tube preamp. Maybe you have heard of the Legend system or Von Gaylord. I would like to know if anyone out there has the OHM 200s or 300s in the San Francisco bay area that I could listen to. I love the sound of the MBLs but out of reach. Let me know thanks, Steve |
I have my own minor update. My wife just spoke to me about my pending speaker decision, and asked me if I'd made my mind up yet- the Talls or the 100's. After describing what I know about both, she thinks the 100's are a 'no-brainer'.
Now I just need to pay off a couple more bills, save a few more pennies and commit. Hopefully a couple more months. In the meantime, I seem to have acquired some WAF, a very rare thing indeed... |
Parasound63,
Great news. The WAF of the 100's should be pretty good. At least my wife hasn't complained about them! Not the most gorgeous hunk of audio equipment you've ever seen, but hardly as overwhelming and hideous as some of what's out there! :-) |
Thanks Rebbi!
So- any thoughts on the 100's vs. the MWT's? I think the Talls would work for me best in nearfield listening- but I personally have a hard time letting go of the deeper bass that I understand the 100's deliver. |
Parasound,
I plan to have a post up by the end of the week, now that my dad is out of the woods with his surgery. I need to soon reclaim some space in the house and so either the MWT's or the 100's will be shipped back to Ohm soon. I'm hoping to do some head-to-head listening on Wednesday/Thursday, so expect a post by the weekend or sooner. |
Ok Rebbi and fellow posters-
I'm feeling Ohm-sick.
I just sold my Definitive BP-2006TL theater package to a grateful buyer and am using my old Pinnacle Classic Gold References. I have a little cash towards my purchase.
But I keep going back-and-forth on the MWT's or the 100-S-3's. If I got with the MWT's, I can probably purchase in the next 2 weeks. If I hold out for the 100's, it could be 2 months.
Any guidance out there? |
Call Ohm and see if they still have any refurbished Super Walsh 2 S3s available, similar to those in my system. These are the nice vintage pyramid shaped cabinets with the 100 series 3 drivers and usually go for around $1300 when available.
|
Yeah. The $300 is what will make me have to wait... |
Check out the OHM site where they list upgrade options for old Walsh speakers to see which models can be upgraded to 100 S3. I think the upgrade itself is around $800.
Then, you might be able to pick up a pair of older OHMs for around $200 that you can upgrade yourself. This is the cheapest way, though it involves you doing the upgrade.
The upgrade (for old Walsh 2's for example) can involve removing old drivers, removing acoustic damping material, prying out the old crossover board in the base, putting a new terminal board in its place using a glue gun, reattaching internal supports if needed using same glue gun, re-inserting acoustic damping material and attaching new drivers. Some older models might be as simple as removing old driver and attaching new to upgrade. You can get the upgrade info for specific models from OHM.
Another option to reduce cost is pick up a pair of old OHMs on ebay that can be traded in for greater value to reduce the end cost of buyng new or refurbished speaks from OHM. OHM will take up to two pair for up to 40% of cost as trade-in I believe. This is what I did to obtain my Walsh 5's.
For this option, you have to make sure the speaks you get for trade-in meet OHMs trade-in requirements regarding condition, and you have to factor in shipping costs both to obtain speaks and ship to OHM for trade-in.
I was able to buy an old pair of C2s on Ebay for just over $100 and have them shipped direct to OHM for trade-in value of $700, for example. Then I also traded in my own old Walsh2s which cost me about $40 to ship to OHM. Together I was able to receive 40% the cost of refurbished F-5s. |
Whoa! Those are good ideas!
-Thanks! |
Everybody,
I thought it might be good to explain why my final report on the Micros versus the 100s has been so delayed.
In essence, about six days after my dad was released from the hospital following successful bypass surgery, my mom fell down at home and broke her hip. So I've spent the past three weeks pretty much doing nothing except for trying to help them and all of us get through this. I'm extremely grateful that my mom seems to be coming through this successfully, and was just transferred to a rehabilitation hospital today. So things are looking up. I'm very grateful, but also exhausted, and haven't had any time to listen to music over the past few weeks.
I feel hopeful that things will finally begin to settle down into a more regular rhythm and I will be able to get back to relatively trivial matters like posting my report. ;-)
Best...
PS: I spoke with John a few days ago to tell him why I hadn't yet returned any of the merchandise that I have from Ohm. He kind of gasped and said, "What's going on with your family right now is much more important than me getting my speakers back! Take your time!" :-) |
Hang in there Rebbi. There'll always be time to listen to some music... Awaiting your reports - but no hurry... |
Rebbi, Ouch!! I went through a patch like that recently with my p's. Hang it there! |
Rebbi - Hang in there my friend and remember, First Things First. So take care of your family and yourself. The next most important thing is audio, :) and we shall look forward to when you can return to it. |
ZkZpb8, Knownothing, Aktchi,
Thanks for the support! |
Okay,
Things settling down a bit with my folks, and I got to spend some quality time with the 100's and Micro's last night. A little "audio therapy" if you will! Impressions...
If you go back to my 2/28/09 post, you'll see that I was impressed by how little the Micro's give up to the 100's, and that's still true, perhaps even more so. The smoothness, tonal balance and imaging and enveloping soundstage are all there. What the 100's add is authority in the bass region and - I can add this now - more convincing dynamics. The 100's really swing from soft to loud pretty effortlessly - and this is with an 80 watt Unison Unico integrated - and I hear it most dramatically on orchestral recordings. Not that the Micro's DON'T do orchestra well - they do, and to a level that belies their tiny size. But when you compare them side-by-side with the 100's, you hear the added weight and presence of the larger driver.
So: I think that anybody with a small room who likes the fundamental Ohm "sound" would be VERY happy with the Micros - happy with the sound, and happy knowing that for $1000, they've snagged a real bargain in the world of high-end audio. But if that same person had another $700 to plunk down, they'd get the added benefits of what the larger driver and cabinet have to offer.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to keep the 100's and ship back he Micro's next week. The Micros still do sound the slightest bit more open and airy than the 100's, but I have to believe that thatÂ’s a matter of much less break-in time on that larger driver. So the 100's should keep getting better with time.
Oh, and one other thing. Once you dial in their placement, the Ohm's do a very fine job of placing instruments and singers in space - nothing "vague" about their imaging, although it takes some fiddling.
Over and out... |
Reb, glad things are getting back to normal!
Yeah, don't forget about break-in. Tvad is watching!
I noticed a pair of low mileage micros for sale here yesterday at a nice discount in case anyone is looking for an extreme bargain. |
Mapman,
Thanks for the good wishes.
And yes, I saw those Micro's, too. Rosewood finish, very pretty! |
Rebbi,
Glad to hear that things are going well. Thanks for the update on the speakers.
Marty |
Rebbi,
Thanks for the update. |
Martykl,
Thanks! And thanks for your Ohm vs. Maggies analysis in that other thread. Very interesting and thoughtful. |
Rebbi,
Where did you end up placing your 100s? |
Biznus97,
Disclaimer: I have an oddly shaped room, and I'm still not convinced I've found optimum placement for best tonal balance. Given that...
Both speakers are 20 inches off the rear wall, measured from the back of each speaker. The right speaker is 16 inches off the side wall. The left speaker is four or five feet from the left wall -- that's by necessity, due to the room shape. My listening position is more or less centered between the speakers, about 10 or 11 feet back.
I'll add that a nice thing about the Ohms is that the radiation pattern does provide a wide "sweet sweep," meaning that your listening position is flexible. It's a real plus in rooms like mine, where there's one piece of furniture to sit on (a day bed) that's tucked into a "niche" in the room and can't really be moved. |
Thanks Rebbi,
That is exactly where I ended up with mine (for the back wall). If anyone has the space, I strongly recommend using some acoustic treatments. I just finished getting the last pieces together and the difference combined with dialing in my placement was the best upgrade yet :)
I ended up going with GIK. Great guys, lots of options, and great prices too. |
Martykl,
I picked up a copy of the remastered "Far East Suite" by Ellington on Ebay recently per your recommendation and was just giving it a listen.
You are right. A fabulous recording. Both exhilarating one moment and sublime the next. A definite showpiece/reference recording, not just in soundstage but in imaging, power, detail, and presence. It doesn't get any better than that! Both the power of the big band and the tonal delicacy of the piano, clarinet and other soloists are on fabulous display.
Thanks for that recommendation!
I need to pick up "Black and Tan" also. Any others? |
Map,
"Far East Suite" is my #1A favorite Ellington record, but "Queen's Suite" and "Intimacy of the Blues" would be choices 1B and 1C, respectively. The only caveat is that I own these only on LP and haven't heard the cd versions. Both LPs (Pablo) sound very, very good, if maybe not quite up to Far East Suite quality.
As a side note, some critics have dumped on "Queen's Suite" as "minor" Ellington - but I disagree. Can't guarantee how you'll feel.
Marty
PS Glad you enjoy Far East Suite. Overall, my single favorite recording (out of many thousand) that I own. |
Mapman,
Hey, I've seen plenty of copies of Far East Suite on eBay, too. Which edition and format did you get? |
Artist: Ellington, Duke
Release Date: Sep 23, 2003
Format: CD
Record Label: Bluebird RCA (USA)
UPC: 828765561426
|
End of an era here, sort of. Boxed up and shipped the Micro Walsh Tall's back to Ohm today. It's me and the 100's from now on! |
Congrats! Keep us updated though.. |
Questions for Mapman, Rebbe, and other Ohm owners:
In your opinion, how do the MWT and 100s do on image depth both behind and in front of the speakers?
Is it difficult to get the speakers to sonically disappear?
If any Ohm owners have personal experience with Vandersteen speakers, especially the model 1C, can you describe the relative similarities and differences between Vandys and Ohms?
Thanks in advance! |
"how do the MWT and 100s do on image depth both behind and in front of the speakers?"
Tends to be mostly behind the speakers, though room acoustics and electronics will make a difference. Imaging is very much like full range MBLs that I have heard.
Moving to ARC ap-16 tube pre-amp from Carver SS helped move things a bit more forward in my system.
"Is it difficult to get the speakers to sonically disappear?"
No, certainly not with decent room placement and electronics. They disappear currently about as well as the Triangles Titus 202s in my system, which are champs at disappearing even in lesser systems and significantly better than the Dynaudio Contour 1.3 mkIIs I also run.
Haven't heard Vandys enough to comment much but from the little I have heard there are similarities in the openness of the sound of both.
Good electronics makes all the difference with the newer OHMs. You will hear whatever you put through them. I recommend using decent tubed sources and pre-amp along with a good SS amp for most magical results. |
Bondmap,
I used to have a pair of Vandy 2C's (original model) many years ago. I cherished them for their ability to throw a large soundstage, but the Ohm's trounce them in that department with the right source material.
I agree with Mapman that much of the soundstage presentation takes place behind the speakers, but not entirely. On "The Goodbye Look" from Donald Fagen's "The Nightfly," the percussion, especially the marimba parts, reach out into the room toward you. On "Let's Face The Music And Dance" from Diana Krall's "When I Look In Your Eyes," the piano part also reaches right out into the room. And on pretty much all of the Steely Dan album "Two Against Nature," there are keyboard parts swimming right in front of your nose like nobody's business! :-)
I also remember loving Sade's "Is It A Crime" track from one of her first LP's on the Vandy's, because of how wide the soundstage extended, and the Ohms do at least as well on that track.
What I will say is that the Ohms seem to me to be more forgiving in terms of placement than my old 2C's. I remember lots of futzing around with the Vandy's in terms of distance from any walls, vertical tilt, and so forth. With the Ohm's it's been simpler for me.
I also wouldn't underestimate the convenience of fine tuning speaker placement with a speaker that doesn't require spikes! :-) |
|
"I agree with Mapman that much of the soundstage presentation takes place behind the speakers, but not entirely. On "The Goodbye Look" from Donald Fagen's "The Nightfly," the percussion, especially the marimba parts, reach out into the room toward you. On "Let's Face The Music And Dance" from Diana Krall's "When I Look In Your Eyes," the piano part also reaches right out into the room."
Yes that can certainly occur with regularity on certain recordings where the stars align.
There is one extended high note Mel Torme hits at the end of a tune on the CD recording of "The Classic Concert" that seems to envelope you from above and behind in my room. I was strtled and jumped up out of my seat the first time I heard it....very surreal! |
Bondmap - I have MWT's, and I auditioned 1C's a few years ago. I'm a Vandy fan, but I chose the Ohms.
Image depth was one of the things that I gained with the Ohms. As mentioned, the overall presentation is a little behind the speakers. Vandys were the first speakers that I heard that had that front to back imaging that made instruments sound real. The Ohms do it too, with much easier placement and a much larger sweet spot.
It is very easy to get the speakers to disappear, since owning them, it's very hard for me to like conventional speakers, like I used to. The music spills into the room, and never sounds like it's emanating from a box... |
IME, the Ohm 100s are a bit more neutral than the Vandy 2 series, which -IMHO- has slighly elevated upper bass and slightly rolled presence/treble. Each of those two qualities is subtle, but taken together the combo of these two characteristics make the Vandy 2s seem just a touch "warm" to me. Tonally, the Model 5 or the Quatro is closer to the Ohm - just flat neutral. Of course, those Vandys have powered bass modules, so there's some "wiggle room" in their tonal balance - but when set up for max neutrality, they're pretty spot on, IMHO. As are the Ohms.
Imaging is a different story. The Ohms bring a certain "weight" to the images that I've heard only from omni designs. This is a really significant difference and separates the Ohms from most other speakers that I've heard. In other respects the Ohms and Vandy 2s image similarly, though I feel that the Ohms may go a bit wider in projecting believable sound sources outside the speaker than I've ever heard from any Vandy speaker. There are enough variables here - I've heard a half a dozen Vandy 2 set ups over the years, but never in the same room/system as the Ohms - that YMMV.
I'd mostly agree with Mapman, but would beg to differ in the comparison to MBL, as the 101s can create the illusion of 3d space extending into your lap in a way that is, IME, virtually unique (and certainly beyond what I get from my 100s in this regard). Actually, to be more accurate, I've heard some minimonitors that can also create the illusion of images way forward in space. The ProAc Tablettes come to mind. Either way, the Ohms are more limited in this regard than the best imagers I've heard.
Hope this helps.
Marty |
"101s can create the illusion of 3d space extending into your lap in a way that is, IME, virtually unique (and certainly beyond what I get from my 100s in this regard)"
I've only heard the 111s, not the 101s, so I cannot compare those.
The 111s at least did not extend forward or image in a manner radically different than the OHMs that I could tell, at least in the room I heard them in with the high end MBL electronics and with the source material listened to, both of which were top notch.
MBL 111s list for $34000. OHMS top out at ~ $6000.
101s could be a totally different story. My understanding is that the dynamics on those are at a totally different level than 111s.
My assessment was that the OHM dynamics are at least as good as and perhaps even a bit better than 111s I would say, at least based on my limited exposure to the 111s.
MBL 101s go for over $60000/pair I believe.
There was nothing about the 111s running on tens of thousands of dollars worth of MBL electronics however that made me feel like the OHM 5s, at least, are at a comparative disadvantage in a similar somewhat large listening room.
I went into the MBL demo fully expecting a significant difference in sound based on the design and cost differences but did not hear it, more as result of the prowess of the OHM 5s than any shortcomings of the much more expensive 111s. |
No argument re: MBL and value or lack thereof (vs. Ohm). My 100s are also far more neutral tonally than MBL 101s, the $58,200 MBL price premium notwithstanding.
Marty |
Another outstanding reference recording heard on OHMs notice (off today for Good Friday and time to spin some vinyl not heard in a while):
"I Robot" by Allan Parsons Project on Mobile Fidelity Master LP - yeah baby! Hadn't spun it in a while. Outstanding!
Also "Pyramid" by same APP on standard issue LP, perhaps just a tad behind IR in regards to overall recording merit and sound quality.
Pink Floyd's "Meddle" - nothing to sneeze at either! |
I just picked up Ingrid Michaelson's "Boys and Girls" (recommended to me elsewhere) and Lindsey Buckingham's "Under The Skin," both supposed to be good Ohm showpieces. I'll report back. |
Rebbi
"Show You How" and "It Was You" are the key tracks on "Under The Skin". Louder is better.
Marty |
Rebbi,
I'm not sure of your taste in music, but I have another recommendation for you if it runs to "stripped down" rock music - think Neil Young style. The cd is called "With These Hands" by Alejandro Escovedo. He's something of a cult figure because:
A) His dad is the well known jazz artist Pete Escovedo
B) He's done the noisy/garage thing with Buick McKane
C) He's done the Cow Punk thing with Rank n File
D) He's had hepatitis C and an acoompanying benefit CD with cult/rock celeb participation.
and
E) His music can be great.
Unfortunately, the productions are frequently too dense for my taste and the sound can get muddy. However, this particular CD "unravels" nicely on the Ohms and sounds better (to my ear) than on conventional loudspeakers. It's no world beater, but a good demo of where the omni approach works better.
Marty
PS Listen specifically to the percussion on the title track to see what I mean. I will caution that the sound on this one may polarize opinion and disappoint some, but the good news for those folks is that the music's still great - if you like this sort of thing. |
The joys of settling in...
It's a pleasure being off the speaker merry-go-round and just enjoying music for awhile!
Had a brief chance to listen today (parents' health situation not yet totally resolved... but getting there...)
Two more "Ohm Show Pieces," both from Steely Dan Gold: Expanded Edition.
Century's End and True Companion. That signature Ohm "fill the room with music" thing is definitely happening in spades.
Steve
PS: Thanks for the recommendations, Marty! |
