Ohm Walsh Micro Talls: who's actually heard 'em?
Here's something interesting for you guys: I sent the following email to Jim Smith, the author of the book (which I recently bought and highly recommend) called Getting Better Sound. I asked: I have a question for you. Here's his reply: Re the Ohms, German Physiks, MBLs, etc, they all can produce a very involving sound, in part because of their uncanny soundstaging, not in spite of it. Food for thought, no? |
I think the 80 watts are fine for the 100s. The 300s and 5s are the real beasts to drive where the high power, very high current amps can add a lot of value, I think. When I bought the 120w/ch Musical Fidelity amp I'm using now, I did it not certain that it would have the guts to drive the 5's well at the time. My plan was to resell it and move up right away if not satisfied. But the A3CR has been an overachiever since its arrival and I am hard pressed to hear a reason to replace it. Still, if I had money to burn, I think I do covet those Blue Circle amps based on John's superlative reaction to them. I think a 250 or even 500 w/ch Class D might do equally as well perhaps also, but those BLue CIrcle big boys would sure be sweet..... |
I myself am hoping that they do well with my Parasound HCA-2205. I know a lot of people here debate SS vs tube and all that, but for my money current is king when driving any speaker, let alone one with a sensitivity below 90 db. Class D might best what I have, but I have no desire to change my amp. It's the only part of my system that I think is a 'for life' product. At 60 amps of current and 220 watts per channel, I see no reason to change it. Unless a Theta Dreadnaught were to fall in my lap, that is... Oh- and before I get the fan-boy groans, I assure you all that I really am not one. I took the username out of enthusiasm and before I began lurking on forums. I had no idea how dumb it was until I read a few links :( |
Of course I'm biased, but the Blue Circle gear is exceptional, and a great value given how it's made and how it performs. There's a brand new 150 watt integrated coming out, my guess is it would drive any Ohm speaker beautifully. I'm actually an omni novice. It's the only kind of loudspeaker I've never owned, i.e. I've had electrostatics, planar magnetics, ribbons, horns, waveguides, conventional dynamic systems, etc. Very much looking forward to experiencing the omni approach. This thread has been very helpful on tips/experience in integrating these types of speakers into the room. If this thread is still alive, I'll report back after hearing the Pennys. |
I emailed John after the '07 RMAF, this was his response about Blue Circle: Hi Neil, Yes, we are going to be making them for Gilbert. I was at the show getting consumer feedback before gearing up for production. Several people said we had the most natural, accurate sound at the show and everyone was amazed at the imaging. Good Listening! John |
Thanks. I am enjoying them, although I've had precious little time to listen due to my work schedule. I'm still trying to get them voiced optimally... Tone, balance, imaging, soundstage... And things will surely shift as they break in. Ome thing I can say so far is that orchestral recordings sound luscious! More to come!... |
Hey Rebbi, While sitting here paying bills and listening to the 1983 CD "Fancy Pants" by the Count Basie ORchestra, I was reminded to mention to you to be sure to test out the bigger OHMS with some well recorded Big Band music. Nothing separates the men from the boys in the world of larger high end speakers like how well they deliver well recorded Big BAnd music at realistic SPLs with some real "meat on the bones"! The OHMs are champs at their price point with this genre in particular I have found. |
Mapman, Nice suggestion, thanks, I'll try it. I was a trumpet player in my youth (alas!) and accumulated lots of big band jazz LP's, including miles of Maynard Ferguson in his heyday. I bet some of that stuff would sound sweet on the 100's. I also have some Buddy Rich, and an obscure but fun LP of the Woody Herman Band playing songs by Steely Dan (I'm not kidding)! I'll report back.... |
"The horns and the kick drum particularly come across on the Ohms" I would agree. Since going to the ARC tube pre-amp in my system in particular, mid-range, including horns and vocals, and overall dynamics on percussive instruments have taken as major step forward with the OHMs. I notice it on the Dynaudios as well, but to a lesser extent. |
Marty, Thanks for the tip on 'Far East Suite". I need to add more Ellington to my collection. I have the "The Duke: The Columbia Years" box set that covers a wide range of Ellington stuff from early to later years on that label and it has top notch sound. Even the older cuts have been remastered extremely well and overall the whole set is just pure audio candy on the OHMs that is hard to match. It's one of my "Desert Island Discs" and perhaps my single favorite jazz title in my collection, but I do not think "Far East Suite" is in there. |
Another report from Ohm 100 Land... The 100s are sounding terrific. One of my favorite "demo discs" is the LP version of Dire Straits "Brothers in Arms." "So Far Away," sounded wonderful... the thump and pluck of the guitars was enchanting. "Walk of Life" and "Why Worry," were also marvelous. Then, this morning, I had the opportunity to listen for a few minutes to some of "Promise," the LP version by Sade. What the 100s did with the opening cut, "Is It a Crime," was nothing less than jaw-dropping. I mean, this is a very highly produced, multitracked, studio recording... nothing "audiophile" about it, in the normal sense. But the effect of that "Ohm magical presentation" was really something. The track opens with a loud, raucous saxophone solo with lots of plucked electric bass and crashing drums underneath and around it, with lots of studio reverberation surrounding the whole package. The 100s really made it dance and come alive. Then suddenly, the track goes quiet and you are left with just Sade singing accompanied by leisurely chords on some sort of keyboard/organ. The organ chords reach out and envelop the room... you are just getting swept away in the music. I don't know how else to describe it. This, by the way, was one of my favorite albums when I had my old, Vandersteen 2C loudspeakers. As justifiably lauded as they are for throwing a large soundstage, they never brought this level of drama out of that album. Just marvelous. I'm going to have a lot more time next week to play around with positioning. I'm finding this aspect of things a bit frustrating... I'm not always sure what I'm looking for. I'm not convinced that I've got my positioning optimized yet... the "phantom" center image seems a little skewed to the left... and I'm not sure I'm getting the best tonal balance out of the speakers. I will say, surprisingly, that as much as these 100s are considerably larger than the Micros, I haven't generally found them to be overly bass heavy in my listening room. They have more of what you might call "authority" than the Micros, but generally speaking they're not really "boomy." I started with them about 2 1/2 feet off the back wall, and I've gradually been inching them backwards toward the wall, because the width of the soundstage seems to bloom as I move them back. But, beyond that, I'm not sure I've got anything else quite right yet. Any speaker positioning advice any of you experts can offer will be warmly accepted! :-) |
If you're soundstage/imaging seems skewed to one side or the other due to placement and/or room acoustics, try toeing out the OHM on the weak side only to direct more high end energy from the tweet towards your listening area from that side. That is what I do with my 5's to help balance things out in my listening area in the long area of my very assymetrical L shaped room. You can see an example of this in the "theBigOhms" photo on my virtual system. The right F-5 is toed out more than the left to fire more forward than normal so as to balance out the sound stage which otherwise is skewed significantly to the left and extends well into the short length of the L shaped room to the left of the left hand speaker. |
Map, Ellington's extended compositions/theme albums are my favorites. While this is not "Take The A Train", I find the music readily accessible despite the more involved structures. My personal 3 faves are: Far East Suite Intimacy of The Blues Queen's Suite The last 2 I own only on LPs (Pablo) which sound great, but I can't comment on the CD versions, sonically. All 3 are definitely worth having. Marty |
Everybody, I'm sorry that it's taken me such a long time to post to this thread. I've been very busy, but I also wanted to wait until I had something interesting to share. Here than, is Installment #2 of my Ohm Speaker Shootout. I've been running and attempting to break in and optimize the positioning of the 100s for the past few weeks. It's pretty clear to me that they are not really even close to being broken in at this point. But coming out of curiosity, I disconnected them and hooked up the Micros again for a comparison. Here's the interesting thing: it's rather amazing to me how little the Micros give up to the 100s in terms of smoothness, tonal accuracy and sound staging. True, the 100s have a somewhat fuller and more authoritative feel, particularly in the lower registers, but in spite of the substantially larger diameter of the driver in the 100s, it's pretty astonishing how much the Micros are able to capture and deliver the bulk of the essential sound of the 100s. Indeed, even in the realm of bass response, although the Micros don't have quite the power and authority of the 100s, as you would expect, there is nothing anemic about them by comparison! I've had the house to myself for a few days, and so had a rare opportunity for some extended, late-night listening last night. (I'd forgotten how nice it is and how much it enhances the "live performance" delusion to listen with the lights off...) I broke out some vinyl that I hadn't spent time with in years. Rickie Lee Jones's self-titled debut album sounded AMAZING... as trite as this sounds, I couldn't stop listening. And Norah Jones debut album (man, that woman can sing) was glorious... the Micros really show off their coherence in the way that they render the female voice. I also ought to comment that the 100s, visually, are a good deal more imposing looking, especially in a small room, than the Micros. (The footprint of the 100s is 9" x 9", while the footprint of the Micros is 6" x 6".) After looking at the 100s for several weeks, when you put back the Micros they look like toothpicks, almost laughably small. But man, with the right material, they really sing! If I had to make a snap judgment right now, I might actually end up with the Micros rather than the 100s, but I'm cognizant of the fact that the Micros are currently more broken in and that they need to give the 100s more break in time. I guess I'm posting this primarily for anybody who is thinking of putting the Micros in a small room but is worried that they'd be "giving up too much" in comparison to the 100s. As of now, I'd say, "Don't worry about it!" More to come... |
This is what I used: http://www.amazon.com/Mussorgsky-Pictures-Exhibition-Stravinsky-Petrouchka/dp/B000001QBW Its hard to find though. I think most organ stuff I have will be. I'd try a good recording of the "Organ Symphony" by Camille Saint Saens. Maybe somebody can recommend one. It features some low organ notes and is also a nice orchestral piece to boot... a nice piece to test out nice audio pieces with. |
I've found that my 100s require higher SPLs to "open up" dynamically and, consequently, I listen louder these days. This has made me wonder about Sat 5s which are designed for higher output. Map, since you have both 100s and 5s, I'd love to get your take on their behavior at higher volumes. I know sat 5s w/subs aren't 5s, but your experience is probably as close as I'm gonna find. Thanks in advance, Marty PS Room is 3 walls w only an open railing behind the listener. The floorplan is app. 23' X 14 ft. The 100s are app 3 1/2 feet from the long wall behind them and 10' from my seat. The ceiling in app 18' high and the open space behind the listening position is pretty large. |
Marty, The thing to me that distinguishes the OHMs from many other designs at their particular price point per room size IS their ability to open up and shake the rafters at more realistic listening volumes with little or no fatigue (with proper amplification). The Walsh CLS driver and all that goes with it is the key to its unique abilities in this area. They also are competitive in terms of dynamics, detail, imaging etc. in most key aspects of good sound at lower volumes, and of course still have the distinctive, lifelike sound of an omni design, but there are many other speaker designs at various comparable price points that do detail, imaging and other things well also using a more conventional design. Rebbe's Totem Arros are a great example. They do most things except go loud and shake the rafters as well as most anything in a suitably sized room. Most speaks that can do what the OHM Walshes do at realistic SPLs in their target room size tend to cost a lot more. That is where a lot of the unique value comes in. Of course, most would also acknowledge that they are champs in regards to size of soundstage, which is also key for enabling the speaks to work all their other forms of magic in terms of air, imaging, dynamics, etc. These are "muscle speaks" that also have the ability to deliver delicate lines with finesse and detail due to their unique design (the Walsh driver). That's what makes them unique and different from say Quad eletrostats or even other good dynamic designs at similar price points. |
Rebbe, One other thing regarding break-in is that with the larger drivers, even the 100 to some extent it will break in best if you are able to "crank it up" a bit from time to time to really help "loosen things up". They will take as much clean power as you can throw at them and still be able to listen comfortably. |
Did any of you guys get this email? We are proud to announce the appointment of Audible Emotions as our distributor in Germany, Matthias Ertel, founder. Matthias grew up with Ohm Fs and is now providing Ohm F-5000 upgrades as well as the new MicroWalsh Signature Edition (soon to be available in the USA and Canada). He will also be helping with service on Ohm Classic speakers. If you are in Europe and read German, please check out his website www.audibleemotions.de. Good Listening! John Strohbeen, President 800-783-1553 |
Um, I think he's been following this thread for a while... Does ANYBODY have more information on the Signature Edition? I took a look at the Audible Emotions site, and the look of them is certainly impressive. From the picture, it looks like a higher quality cabinet. But I wonder what's in them...? -P |
Here is Audible Emotions site translated to English. http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.audibleemotions.de.%2F&sl=de&tl=en&history_state0= |
Actually, from my conversations with John I've gotten the impression that he has been checking this thread, at least from time to time. Those Micro Walsh SE's look sweeeeeet! Wow those are some handsome speakers! Like Parasound, I wonder if they are just an upgraded cabinet, or if the innards have also been revised? Mapman, I just realized that the first Emerson Lake and Palmer album (the self-titled one with the flying dove on the cover) has some real pipe organ on it. I'll have a listen! And thanks for the cranking it up tip as far as break-in is concerned. |
Hi, Gang, I wrote to John and asked: What's the deal with the new Micro Walsh SE? New cabinet only, or Here's what he said (reposted with his permission): Hi Steve, So there you have it. He also said that the Ohm website would soon be updated with all this information. By the way, the Special drivers that John sent me have the tweeter from the 100's in them, with (as I understand it) higher output than the standard Micro Walsh tweeter. |
Hey Rebbi, Just caught up with this thread again. Wow, you are on quite an Ohmazing adventure! Sorry for sending you to Totem town, but now that you have visited Ohmville, you know where you want to live. I have learned a lot from this thread and wonder if the Ohm owner I know might benefit from some of the placement suggestions made here - his system suffers a little in terms of image blurring that may have more to do with improper placement than any inherent character of the Ohm speakers. Anyway, seems as though you are enjoying your system and your audio journey. Hey Mapman - hope you are doing well too! |
Know, I'm good thanks! The image sharpness was not as good on the original Walsh speakers from the 80's and not up to par with more modern designs IMHO. I owned original Walsh 2's for 25 years prior to the two pair of series 3 I own now for comparison. Unfortunately, I suspect the originals, which were sold in large #'s in various hifi chains back then, are the OHM Walsh speakers that most people have heard and remember. If your friends speaks are series 3, I'd bet some placement tuning should resolve things. I've never heard series 2, but I suspect it is somewhere in between in that series 3 uses a different tweeter, though my uderstanding is the Walsh driver is the same as series 2. |
I just orderd a pair of the 100s and the dual 12 sub, I also just pechased the Yamaha htr6180b 735 watt 7.1 receiver. My room is 13x16, and by the sound of things I might want to consider making my romm bigger 13x26. This will be the best system i have owned. Can't wait to get everything in and hooked up. Staker |
My A'gon Friends, Sorry I've been so silent here. My dad had emergency cardiac bypass surgery on Thursday morning. He's doing well, thank God, but as you can well imagine, audio equipment has been way down on my list of priorities recently. Anyway, I'll be back an posting soon, I hope. And if you're so inclined, all prayers appreciated. |
