Ohm Walsh Micro Talls: who's actually heard 'em?
Wow, Rebbi, your hooked man and on your way to even better things I'm sure! If you liked the micros I'm sure the 100s will float your boat even further. I plug the ports on the bottom of my 100's with loosely rolled up socks to lessen the bass a tad when I have them in my 12X12 sun-room sometimes, otherwise, in my other 12X12 main listening room, I run them unhindered. I do the same with the rear ports of my Dynaudios as well in that same room. Adjusting the tightness of fit of the sock plug in the port tunes the low end as needed. Since the ports are on the bottom, nobody ever knows there is anything there. |
Well, it appears that I am soon to be knee-deep in Ohm speakers! I ordered a pair of the 100s today from John. Really, the extent to which they are willing to work to satisfy customers is pretty remarkable! He is sending me the 100s, and told me to hang onto Micros (including both sets of drivers) until I figured out what sounded the best. Then I return what I don't want and my account is adjusted (or not) accordingly. So I have an additional three months to figure out what I want to do. I did have the opportunity to swap out the drivers on the Micros once again and put the originals back in. After a bit of time listening, I'm not convinced that the difference between the two sets of drivers is that extraordinary. In other words, there is a difference, but it's pretty subtle. Maybe a little less sense of detail... I'm just not sure. But the original drivers certainly don't sound dull or rolled off in the high frequencies, that's for sure. By the way, Mapman, John explained to me the difference between the two sets of drivers for the micros, the originals and the modified ones. Essentially, the tweeters that come with the 100s are manufactured to output an additional 3 dB of response over those that come with the 100s, because that is what is needed with the 100s. What John did for me was to put the tweeters from the 100s into the Micros. So, essentially, with the 100s, I will be getting the same tweeters as in the modified Micro drivers that John sent, albeit mated to the larger, inverted driver for the 100s. I did ask him about the possibility of having excessive bass output in my small room. He said that it is much easier to attenuate excess bass response than it is to add bass after-the-fact. I deliberately asked John to ship them toward the end of next week, since I'm going to be out of town on business for a good part of next week. Of course, as always, I'll report back here when I have some impressions to share. |
Without listening to your system in your room, a "go/no call" call on a subwoofer is tough. If you DO decide to go with a sub, however, I'll offer a piece of advice. The Velodyne SMS-1 sub controller ($500-600 on line) offers room analysis, PEq, and a flexible x-over which will allow smooth integration (and low end response optimization) of the sub of your choice. IMHO, it's a great tool and - for most set-ups - probably allows a midling sub to outperform a higher quality sub via superior integration. (This is obviously a generalization, but I suspect that, more often than not, this is the case.) I use mine to cross Ohm 100s to a pair of Velodyne SPL 800R subs (which are not great performers by hi-end standards). I am sufficiently happy with the results that I haven't upgraded the SPLRs, even though superior SVS subs are available at modest cost and I have other uses (home theater) for the SPLRs. BTW, you can always upgrade your subs after the addition of the SMS. Other than the Velodyne DD series (which includes an SMS like function), I know of no sub which offers this type of integration tool. Just my take. Marty |
Would love to hear from Ohm owners .. should I get a new subwoofer? First off I'd like to say I'm very happy with my modest little system right now and have no NEED to change anything. That being said, out of curiosity I've been playing with my old sub (Velodyne CT-120) which I haven't used for music in a long time. Being in a tweeky mood I hooked it up using a Polk ICBM-1 (also left over from HT) and have it crossed at 60. So .. I like what I hear. Mostly, I hear the MWTs doing their magic and when the sub kicks in the sound has more depth and body. Not muddy, but what does one hear below 60? So really my question is .. will a higher end sub give me significantly better bass below 60 or is this a diminishing returns scenario? The Velodyne is the only sub I've owned and I have no friends who own one so I feel somewhat clueless here. |
Rebbi .. when I decided to take a chance on the Ohms there was very little if any discussion like this thread. Good quality stuff here. Will be very helpful to others who are curious but hesitant. I read about John's passing when I went back to revisit the 6Moons article for some amp/pre upgrade research. Very sad, he was still pretty young. And very well respected. |
Jmelvin, Yes the 6moons review, as well as Mapman and others' enthusiasm here, got me to take the plunge and eventually sell my Totem Arros. By the way, I read on another website - maybe it was Positive Feedback? - recently that John Potis, the author of that review, had passed away in December. Sad! He seemed like a good guy. He even answered a couple of emails I sent him! |
01-14-09: Rebbi Winegasman, Good to hear! And you are happy with how the tube amp drives the speaks? There had been talk here earlier that the Ohms preferred SS gear. Actually, I don't think speakers can prefer anything; only we can. I have no idea how they sound with SS because I don't have an SS amp. I have a 35wpc tube integrated that I like a lot, so that's what I'm using. My ears are probably too dense to appreciate sound the way an audiophile's ears can appreciate sound, but, yea, the Ohms sound wonderful with my amp, in my room, at this time. As I said, the system fills the room with palpable sound -- including engaging bass -- and does it with the volume gain at no more than 1 o'clock -- after that, my ears start to bleed. But that may just be me. |
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Hi, loose, Yeah, the Unico really is a honey: it's beautiful, built like the proverbial tank, and sounds very nice. I lucked out here when I got it here on Audiogon for a very good price... The seller even included two other sets of tubes, although I haven't yet gotten into "tube rolling" as of yet. I'd seen it well reviewed on the Net and grabbed it fast. I've only owned one other amp in my life: a very old PS Audio integrated that I sold here on A'gon. So I'm not well equipped to comment learnedly on its "sound," except to say that it sounds good to me. |
Rebbi, I didn't realize you are using the Unico with your Ohms. Great amp! I really, REALLY wish I would not have sold mine. That amp is amazingly subtle; it doesn't 'wow' the listener in the first five minutes, but after listening for extended periods of time, its virtues can really seduce you. Very solid construction, very robust... and makes any speaker i've connected to it so smooth and liquid sounding. Very good choice. Based on your (and everyone else's) description of the Ohms, bet it's a match made in heaven. |
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Yes, you've basically expressed my thoughts on this. When John told me that the 100s could play "four times as loud" as the Micros, I actually laughed out loud, because in my room, the Micros can play louder than I can stand! :-) That said, as far as "nearfield" listening goes, my room configuration makes it impossible for me to sit more than 10-11 feet away from the speakers, maximum. |
The 100s will probably work as good or better than the micros with your amp, but you may well be tempted to go with a bigger amp at some point to realize a real benefit. Another thing to consider and maybe ask John S. about is that the micros are recommended for near field listening in any room size on the OHM site and the larger Walshes are recommended for general listening in various size rooms. That's because the larger OHMS are just bigger and CAN go louder for listening further away when feasible in a larger room, but for more nearfield listening in a room your size, there will not be much if any difference with a larger model I suspect. USing the Musical Fidelity A3CR (120w/ch) I've had my big OHM 5's in the 12X12 room where the 100's are currently. There was no real benefit with the larger OHMs. When I had the 100's in the larger room where the 5's are, there was....mainly the low end had more weight and balance and was more fulfilling at higher SPLS. Other than that the 100s sounded very much like the 5's overall. I suspect the same would be true in your case with the 100s compared to the Micros. |
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Marty and Mapman, Thanks a lot for the feedback. I am tempted by John's offer of an upgrade to the 100's at full trade-in value on the Micros. I would certainly never drive them as loud as they can go... My listening room is only about 12' by 16' with an 8 foot ceiling. But the deeper bass is tempting! But what about my amp?? The Unico puts out 80 w/channel into 8 ohms. And that is solid state in the power section. But how so you know If that's enough "juice?". :-) |
My Musical Fidelity A3CR is about 120w/ch into 8 ohm and almost double into 4 and does fine with the 100 S3s in my rooms that fall within the max room size recommendation for 100s. I can also say that all the 100 s3 and larger drivers love lots of power and current, the more the merrier. I had them on a Carver 360w/ch amp prior and neither 100s or larger 5 drivers ever winced being driven to very high SPLs. I've also ran the 100s to great effect and without issue using an 80W/ch Tandberg 2080. This was not enough for the larger 5's though IMO in that the dynamics suffered, though they were still perhaps undergoing break-in at the time. Switching to the Audio Research sp16 tube pre-amp recently also resulted in a major improvement in overall dynamics, both large scale and micro. The improvement in microdynamics and transients in particular was much greater than any I noticed with various amps. Others report and I tend to believe that in general the more power and current you throw at the Ohms, the better the dynamics overall become. |
Rebbi, A lot depends on your preferred listening level, the room size, the specific amp in question, full range vs subs, etc, etc, etc. FWIW - PrimaLuna 7 monos with KT66 output tubes make about 60ish wpc. With subs, this is more than adequate to produce pretty loud music in my largish room. Full range, I'd want more. I use SS amps producing 200wpc and, although they are louder, the speakers sound more dynamic with tubes (I think. I haven't switched back to the ss amps to verify this observation. It may also be partly/mostly break- in.) Bottom line, more power allows more flexibility, but the speakers are definitely amp sensitive, so take any generalization with a healthy dose of salt. For full range operation I'd try to stay north of 100 wpc tubed and double that for ss. Just a very rough rule of thumb. Marty |
This really has been an interesting treat to read all this on the Ohms. I had the old conventional Ohm Model "L" which I recently had the latest upgraded woofers from John Stroben. I inherited them from my brother who bought them in 1977. Even now they are unmatched bookshelf speakers. The new woofers cost $250....worth every dime! John also sent the new port tuning accessories with them. If you find an old pair of Model "L"'s buy them and put the new woofers in them. Anyway, I have the Ohm Walsh 200 MkII. I run them off my Denon 3805 AVR and Cambridge Audio 640c v.2. After 4 years with them I've concluded that they are the most livable darn speakers. The Walsh's aren't meant to be the imaging champs....its about easy listening and omni present and smoooooooth sound. I sometimes wonderlust and think maybe the grass is greener somewhere else but I'd miss the Ohms...I know I would. So when I get my Wharfedale Evo2 10's arrive next week, I'll put them up on stands next to my Ohms and I'll choose the speaker I'm in the mood for that day. Besides, if I want to change something, I could always try different cables, cords, etc with the Ohms. I've done this a couple of times and improved the sound. Silver RCA cables did a beautiful job on my Ohms. And when I wanted more bass, I went with top-of-the-line Monster Cable speaker cable...that tightened the bass up significantly but lost some transparency. You just have to play with it...and enjoy the process. |
Reb, If it were me, I would try to get by with the standard drivers and use tip-in, tip-out of the tweeter to get the desired effect. I think you indicated at one point prior to getting the tweaked drivers that this had worked to some extent. If the tweaked drivers still sound better to you over an extended audition duration, then go with them. Just my opinion..... |
The switches on the Walsh 5's essentially allow +/- 3db adjustments in four ranges: low bass, mid bass, midrange and treble. These are for purpose of adjusting the response to room acoustics or personal hearing preference. Sounds like the new drivers are more or less like tipping up the treble using the switches on the 5's. I do this on my right Ohm 5 but not my left to help adjust for the crazy acoustics of my L shaped room. That's the main reason I got the 5's instead of the 300's. Unfortunately, Ohm does not offer these adjustments on the smaller models these days (they used to years ago ). Decisions, decisions. |
Mapman, I spoke to John at Ohm the other day to let him know that I'd sold the Totems and would be deciding down the road which set of drivers to keep. Since you'd asked awhile ago what John did to the modified drivers, I asked him, and he said, Boosted the the treble response a bit, or words to that effect. My neurotic side is bugged by this a little: if the Ohm's are known for their neutrality, is my pair somehow now less neutral? Or is it a matter of how they play in my particular room? Anyway, that's craziness! But I will be interested to see how they sound by comparison when I put the original drivers back in. As for trading up to the 100-S3's, John told me that the only real difference is that the bigger speaks will play four times louder and go 1/2 an octave deeper than the MWT's. John said the usual deal is to give 100% trade in value within the first 6 months of ownership if someone wants to trade up the line. I'll see... :-) |
The first piece on this CD is a good demonstration of how well the Ohm's can reproduce the sounds of a pipe organ. http://www.hbdirect.com/album_detail.php?pid=30724 |
