Funny!
Parasound, you may be the first to make that assertion about me!
Honestly, though, I am not an easily satisfied person when it comes to the sound of my music.
I do try to keep a level head and be consistent in what I communicate to others on these things. I have been compared (jokingly?) to Mr. Spock on occasion over the years, so I do tend towards the reserved side I suppose.
Many hot chicks dig Spock though, so I never take that comparison negatively! |
I just got them last night!
I'm hoping to post my impressions this weekend. I can say this: Mapman may be understating his love for them.
Almost all of my expectations were exceeded during the half-hour I had to listen. Bass, treble extension, clarity, fit and finish are all above average so far.
More later, and thanks for asking!
-P |
Parasound,
Have you received your Micro Walsh Talls yet? How are they working out? |
Sadly, I've had very little time to listen to music lately. :-(
But hopefully my schedule will be opening up soon and I'll have more reports from the field. :-) |
Rebbi
You must be enjoying your speakers....not a word from you lately. That good huh? |
Sounds like you made a great choice, then. And I can attest that the black looks very sharp. Do let us all know how you like them! |
Thanks all!
They should arrive around the 13th or so. I got them in black to match the rest of my equipment.
Again, it boiled down to size. I know the 100's aren't huge, but we move every 2 years or so (military household) and I can never predict how large a room is waiting for me to use. Small and portable as practical is my goal. |
congrats - when do you get 'em? |
Parasound,
Yes, congrats from me, too. Do let us know when you receive your MWT's and keep us posted on how you like them. What finish did you get, by the way? :-) |
Parasound:
Congrats. Keep the thread going and keep us posted on how things work out! |
Finally! MWT's on order.
Thanks for the help, everyone.
-P |
Rebbi,
Good to read about your folks. Mine seem to be in the hospital weekly, so I know how it is.
I'm pretty sure I'll 'start' with the MWT's. My wife actually likes how they look, especially the size. I do plan on adding a sub- probably the HSU STF-2 or the VTF-1. I'd add a sub no matter which set of speakers I got. In any case I should be able to order them in the next 30 days or so.
Down the road, I plan on using the MWT's for surround and get 100's for the mains, assuming I have a larger room to work with when we relocate next year.
Thanks again for all the work you did on this thread- along with the rest of the people who chipped in.
-P |
Parasound,
Good to hear from you. Thanks for asking about my parents. Both are, thank God, on the mend!
I shipped the Micro Walshes back to Ohm a couple of weeks ago, but I'll answer your question from memory.
The overall sonic character of the Micros and the 100's is remarkably similar. Both have an airy top end, beautiful mids and solid bass. And the soundstaging capabilities of both are tremendous. I doubt that many other speaker designs "energize the room" quite like the Ohms do. They also have a general coherence of sound - a "seamlessness" - that is very pleasing.
So how are they different?
Mostly I think it's a matter of dynamics and scale. According to John at Ohm, the 100s will play louder with less power than the Micros. Additionally, in a side by side comparison, the 100s have an authority or "solidity" that the Micros don't quite muster.
Yet, as I said earlier, their similarities outweigh their differences, so much so that if you're on a budget (and who isn't these days?) I'd audition the Micros first and see how they work in your room. In smallish rooms, they can really get the job done! |
Rebbi.
Now that some time has passed, do you have any last thoughts on MWT's? You had mentioned that they don't give up much to the 100's. I'm just wondering what you think now.
Hope all is well with your family!
-P |
Yeah, I saw that.
A good price if you can pick them up and are truly restored to good working order. That's the tricky part.
Many who loved the original Fs are skeptical at best regarding the CLS design that supplanted them.
The unique thing about them is that they were single driver full range (to 16-17 Khz anyway) and omni-directional.
Thats rarified ground. Pretty much only rebuilt Fs or As and and perhaps one model German Physiks, at most, available these days, as I recall (their horn loaded model).
Their achilles heel was that the driver was easily over-driven and damaged. OHM CLS design eliminated that problem by foregoing the top end with the Walsh driver, but for some that is where the magic was, so they will look elsewhere these days. |
|
The joys of settling in...
It's a pleasure being off the speaker merry-go-round and just enjoying music for awhile!
Had a brief chance to listen today (parents' health situation not yet totally resolved... but getting there...)
Two more "Ohm Show Pieces," both from Steely Dan Gold: Expanded Edition.
Century's End and True Companion. That signature Ohm "fill the room with music" thing is definitely happening in spades.
Steve
PS: Thanks for the recommendations, Marty! |
Rebbi,
I'm not sure of your taste in music, but I have another recommendation for you if it runs to "stripped down" rock music - think Neil Young style. The cd is called "With These Hands" by Alejandro Escovedo. He's something of a cult figure because:
A) His dad is the well known jazz artist Pete Escovedo
B) He's done the noisy/garage thing with Buick McKane
C) He's done the Cow Punk thing with Rank n File
D) He's had hepatitis C and an acoompanying benefit CD with cult/rock celeb participation.
and
E) His music can be great.
Unfortunately, the productions are frequently too dense for my taste and the sound can get muddy. However, this particular CD "unravels" nicely on the Ohms and sounds better (to my ear) than on conventional loudspeakers. It's no world beater, but a good demo of where the omni approach works better.
Marty
PS Listen specifically to the percussion on the title track to see what I mean. I will caution that the sound on this one may polarize opinion and disappoint some, but the good news for those folks is that the music's still great - if you like this sort of thing. |
Rebbi
"Show You How" and "It Was You" are the key tracks on "Under The Skin". Louder is better.
Marty |
I just picked up Ingrid Michaelson's "Boys and Girls" (recommended to me elsewhere) and Lindsey Buckingham's "Under The Skin," both supposed to be good Ohm showpieces. I'll report back. |
Another outstanding reference recording heard on OHMs notice (off today for Good Friday and time to spin some vinyl not heard in a while):
"I Robot" by Allan Parsons Project on Mobile Fidelity Master LP - yeah baby! Hadn't spun it in a while. Outstanding!
Also "Pyramid" by same APP on standard issue LP, perhaps just a tad behind IR in regards to overall recording merit and sound quality.
Pink Floyd's "Meddle" - nothing to sneeze at either! |
No argument re: MBL and value or lack thereof (vs. Ohm). My 100s are also far more neutral tonally than MBL 101s, the $58,200 MBL price premium notwithstanding.
Marty |
"101s can create the illusion of 3d space extending into your lap in a way that is, IME, virtually unique (and certainly beyond what I get from my 100s in this regard)"
I've only heard the 111s, not the 101s, so I cannot compare those.
The 111s at least did not extend forward or image in a manner radically different than the OHMs that I could tell, at least in the room I heard them in with the high end MBL electronics and with the source material listened to, both of which were top notch.
MBL 111s list for $34000. OHMS top out at ~ $6000.
101s could be a totally different story. My understanding is that the dynamics on those are at a totally different level than 111s.
My assessment was that the OHM dynamics are at least as good as and perhaps even a bit better than 111s I would say, at least based on my limited exposure to the 111s.
MBL 101s go for over $60000/pair I believe.
There was nothing about the 111s running on tens of thousands of dollars worth of MBL electronics however that made me feel like the OHM 5s, at least, are at a comparative disadvantage in a similar somewhat large listening room.
I went into the MBL demo fully expecting a significant difference in sound based on the design and cost differences but did not hear it, more as result of the prowess of the OHM 5s than any shortcomings of the much more expensive 111s. |
IME, the Ohm 100s are a bit more neutral than the Vandy 2 series, which -IMHO- has slighly elevated upper bass and slightly rolled presence/treble. Each of those two qualities is subtle, but taken together the combo of these two characteristics make the Vandy 2s seem just a touch "warm" to me. Tonally, the Model 5 or the Quatro is closer to the Ohm - just flat neutral. Of course, those Vandys have powered bass modules, so there's some "wiggle room" in their tonal balance - but when set up for max neutrality, they're pretty spot on, IMHO. As are the Ohms.
Imaging is a different story. The Ohms bring a certain "weight" to the images that I've heard only from omni designs. This is a really significant difference and separates the Ohms from most other speakers that I've heard. In other respects the Ohms and Vandy 2s image similarly, though I feel that the Ohms may go a bit wider in projecting believable sound sources outside the speaker than I've ever heard from any Vandy speaker. There are enough variables here - I've heard a half a dozen Vandy 2 set ups over the years, but never in the same room/system as the Ohms - that YMMV.
I'd mostly agree with Mapman, but would beg to differ in the comparison to MBL, as the 101s can create the illusion of 3d space extending into your lap in a way that is, IME, virtually unique (and certainly beyond what I get from my 100s in this regard). Actually, to be more accurate, I've heard some minimonitors that can also create the illusion of images way forward in space. The ProAc Tablettes come to mind. Either way, the Ohms are more limited in this regard than the best imagers I've heard.
Hope this helps.
Marty |
Bondmap - I have MWT's, and I auditioned 1C's a few years ago. I'm a Vandy fan, but I chose the Ohms.
Image depth was one of the things that I gained with the Ohms. As mentioned, the overall presentation is a little behind the speakers. Vandys were the first speakers that I heard that had that front to back imaging that made instruments sound real. The Ohms do it too, with much easier placement and a much larger sweet spot.
It is very easy to get the speakers to disappear, since owning them, it's very hard for me to like conventional speakers, like I used to. The music spills into the room, and never sounds like it's emanating from a box... |
"I agree with Mapman that much of the soundstage presentation takes place behind the speakers, but not entirely. On "The Goodbye Look" from Donald Fagen's "The Nightfly," the percussion, especially the marimba parts, reach out into the room toward you. On "Let's Face The Music And Dance" from Diana Krall's "When I Look In Your Eyes," the piano part also reaches right out into the room."
Yes that can certainly occur with regularity on certain recordings where the stars align.
There is one extended high note Mel Torme hits at the end of a tune on the CD recording of "The Classic Concert" that seems to envelope you from above and behind in my room. I was strtled and jumped up out of my seat the first time I heard it....very surreal! |
|
Bondmap,
I used to have a pair of Vandy 2C's (original model) many years ago. I cherished them for their ability to throw a large soundstage, but the Ohm's trounce them in that department with the right source material.
I agree with Mapman that much of the soundstage presentation takes place behind the speakers, but not entirely. On "The Goodbye Look" from Donald Fagen's "The Nightfly," the percussion, especially the marimba parts, reach out into the room toward you. On "Let's Face The Music And Dance" from Diana Krall's "When I Look In Your Eyes," the piano part also reaches right out into the room. And on pretty much all of the Steely Dan album "Two Against Nature," there are keyboard parts swimming right in front of your nose like nobody's business! :-)
I also remember loving Sade's "Is It A Crime" track from one of her first LP's on the Vandy's, because of how wide the soundstage extended, and the Ohms do at least as well on that track.
What I will say is that the Ohms seem to me to be more forgiving in terms of placement than my old 2C's. I remember lots of futzing around with the Vandy's in terms of distance from any walls, vertical tilt, and so forth. With the Ohm's it's been simpler for me.
I also wouldn't underestimate the convenience of fine tuning speaker placement with a speaker that doesn't require spikes! :-) |
"how do the MWT and 100s do on image depth both behind and in front of the speakers?"
Tends to be mostly behind the speakers, though room acoustics and electronics will make a difference. Imaging is very much like full range MBLs that I have heard.
Moving to ARC ap-16 tube pre-amp from Carver SS helped move things a bit more forward in my system.
"Is it difficult to get the speakers to sonically disappear?"
No, certainly not with decent room placement and electronics. They disappear currently about as well as the Triangles Titus 202s in my system, which are champs at disappearing even in lesser systems and significantly better than the Dynaudio Contour 1.3 mkIIs I also run.
Haven't heard Vandys enough to comment much but from the little I have heard there are similarities in the openness of the sound of both.
Good electronics makes all the difference with the newer OHMs. You will hear whatever you put through them. I recommend using decent tubed sources and pre-amp along with a good SS amp for most magical results. |
Questions for Mapman, Rebbe, and other Ohm owners:
In your opinion, how do the MWT and 100s do on image depth both behind and in front of the speakers?
Is it difficult to get the speakers to sonically disappear?
If any Ohm owners have personal experience with Vandersteen speakers, especially the model 1C, can you describe the relative similarities and differences between Vandys and Ohms?
Thanks in advance! |
Congrats! Keep us updated though.. |
End of an era here, sort of. Boxed up and shipped the Micro Walsh Tall's back to Ohm today. It's me and the 100's from now on! |
Artist: Ellington, Duke
Release Date: Sep 23, 2003
Format: CD
Record Label: Bluebird RCA (USA)
UPC: 828765561426
|
Mapman,
Hey, I've seen plenty of copies of Far East Suite on eBay, too. Which edition and format did you get? |
Map,
"Far East Suite" is my #1A favorite Ellington record, but "Queen's Suite" and "Intimacy of the Blues" would be choices 1B and 1C, respectively. The only caveat is that I own these only on LP and haven't heard the cd versions. Both LPs (Pablo) sound very, very good, if maybe not quite up to Far East Suite quality.
As a side note, some critics have dumped on "Queen's Suite" as "minor" Ellington - but I disagree. Can't guarantee how you'll feel.
Marty
PS Glad you enjoy Far East Suite. Overall, my single favorite recording (out of many thousand) that I own. |
Martykl,
I picked up a copy of the remastered "Far East Suite" by Ellington on Ebay recently per your recommendation and was just giving it a listen.
You are right. A fabulous recording. Both exhilarating one moment and sublime the next. A definite showpiece/reference recording, not just in soundstage but in imaging, power, detail, and presence. It doesn't get any better than that! Both the power of the big band and the tonal delicacy of the piano, clarinet and other soloists are on fabulous display.
Thanks for that recommendation!
I need to pick up "Black and Tan" also. Any others? |
Thanks Rebbi,
That is exactly where I ended up with mine (for the back wall). If anyone has the space, I strongly recommend using some acoustic treatments. I just finished getting the last pieces together and the difference combined with dialing in my placement was the best upgrade yet :)
I ended up going with GIK. Great guys, lots of options, and great prices too. |
Biznus97,
Disclaimer: I have an oddly shaped room, and I'm still not convinced I've found optimum placement for best tonal balance. Given that...
Both speakers are 20 inches off the rear wall, measured from the back of each speaker. The right speaker is 16 inches off the side wall. The left speaker is four or five feet from the left wall -- that's by necessity, due to the room shape. My listening position is more or less centered between the speakers, about 10 or 11 feet back.
I'll add that a nice thing about the Ohms is that the radiation pattern does provide a wide "sweet sweep," meaning that your listening position is flexible. It's a real plus in rooms like mine, where there's one piece of furniture to sit on (a day bed) that's tucked into a "niche" in the room and can't really be moved. |
Rebbi,
Where did you end up placing your 100s? |
Martykl,
Thanks! And thanks for your Ohm vs. Maggies analysis in that other thread. Very interesting and thoughtful. |
Rebbi,
Thanks for the update. |
Rebbi,
Glad to hear that things are going well. Thanks for the update on the speakers.
Marty |
Mapman,
Thanks for the good wishes.
And yes, I saw those Micro's, too. Rosewood finish, very pretty! |
Reb, glad things are getting back to normal!
Yeah, don't forget about break-in. Tvad is watching!
I noticed a pair of low mileage micros for sale here yesterday at a nice discount in case anyone is looking for an extreme bargain. |
Okay,
Things settling down a bit with my folks, and I got to spend some quality time with the 100's and Micro's last night. A little "audio therapy" if you will! Impressions...
If you go back to my 2/28/09 post, you'll see that I was impressed by how little the Micro's give up to the 100's, and that's still true, perhaps even more so. The smoothness, tonal balance and imaging and enveloping soundstage are all there. What the 100's add is authority in the bass region and - I can add this now - more convincing dynamics. The 100's really swing from soft to loud pretty effortlessly - and this is with an 80 watt Unison Unico integrated - and I hear it most dramatically on orchestral recordings. Not that the Micro's DON'T do orchestra well - they do, and to a level that belies their tiny size. But when you compare them side-by-side with the 100's, you hear the added weight and presence of the larger driver.
So: I think that anybody with a small room who likes the fundamental Ohm "sound" would be VERY happy with the Micros - happy with the sound, and happy knowing that for $1000, they've snagged a real bargain in the world of high-end audio. But if that same person had another $700 to plunk down, they'd get the added benefits of what the larger driver and cabinet have to offer.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to keep the 100's and ship back he Micro's next week. The Micros still do sound the slightest bit more open and airy than the 100's, but I have to believe that thatÂ’s a matter of much less break-in time on that larger driver. So the 100's should keep getting better with time.
Oh, and one other thing. Once you dial in their placement, the Ohm's do a very fine job of placing instruments and singers in space - nothing "vague" about their imaging, although it takes some fiddling.
Over and out... |
ZkZpb8, Knownothing, Aktchi,
Thanks for the support! |
Rebbi - Hang in there my friend and remember, First Things First. So take care of your family and yourself. The next most important thing is audio, :) and we shall look forward to when you can return to it. |
Rebbi, Ouch!! I went through a patch like that recently with my p's. Hang it there! |
Hang in there Rebbi. There'll always be time to listen to some music... Awaiting your reports - but no hurry... |
Everybody,
I thought it might be good to explain why my final report on the Micros versus the 100s has been so delayed.
In essence, about six days after my dad was released from the hospital following successful bypass surgery, my mom fell down at home and broke her hip. So I've spent the past three weeks pretty much doing nothing except for trying to help them and all of us get through this. I'm extremely grateful that my mom seems to be coming through this successfully, and was just transferred to a rehabilitation hospital today. So things are looking up. I'm very grateful, but also exhausted, and haven't had any time to listen to music over the past few weeks.
I feel hopeful that things will finally begin to settle down into a more regular rhythm and I will be able to get back to relatively trivial matters like posting my report. ;-)
Best...
PS: I spoke with John a few days ago to tell him why I hadn't yet returned any of the merchandise that I have from Ohm. He kind of gasped and said, "What's going on with your family right now is much more important than me getting my speakers back! Take your time!" :-) |
