Nude Turntable Project
Dear Thuchan, You can see 3 rubber grommets on the photo with just the metal frame? The TT-101 sits only on these so there is no metal to metal contact. Yes.....I'm thinking of possible dust on the electronics......but the original metal casing had many slots in the sides and bottom which could also allow dust to be drawn in......yet the electronics appear remarkably clean after 30+ years? I have a soft feather duster that I can use and also a hair dryer (on cold) to blow any dust away? We shall see if it is a problem? Anything like Japanese paper or glass or plastic would not allow the ventilation required....... Regards Henry |
Halcro, Yes, that is a plinth. I like the idea of removing the chassis cover below. It looks cool, too. I think this set-up, along with your extraordinary tonearm pods, has the Lew seal of approval all the way. (Your pods are so solid and heavy that I won't carp about them, especially since the materials of the new plinth are similar to the materials of the arm pods.) I've been thinking about something exactly like what you have, EXCEPT I would have a firm linkage from arm pod to main plinth structure, and the arm pod(s) would therefore not have to make contact with the shelf. I acquired some very heavy thick elastic bands which I was going to use to damp vibrations of the chassis cage that you've entirely removed. The only issue you may encounter might possibly be that the cage shields against RF. May I suggest that you listen with and then without those rubber isolating grommets? I would be very interested to know what that does. My TT101 has had a frustrating history. It had to go back to Bill Thalmann twice since the original re-cap was done. There is nothing wrong with any of the ICs, but Bill finally figured out that several of the PCB tracings and a few connectors had developed cracks causing intermittent short circuits, which led to crazy behavior of the mechanism. (It would work properly at Bill's shop for days. Then because the drive to my house is over bumpy roads, I guess, it would do nutty things in my house.) I've now got it home finally and all is well, after Bill sniffed out the problem areas. I do have a bunch of clock chips for anyone who has a Victor TT with a bum clock (Part #SC3042, made by NPC). (The same chip would work for TT81 and 101 and possibly for 71.) Mine never needed it. Contact me privately. They are cheap. |
Dear Halcro, yes I have the same duty as you taking care of the dust in between the suspension frame and the R 80 parts. I now saw the three rubber parts you are using. The R 80 suspension frame uses 4 springs at the corners. The table is put on a nonstop hard rubber band. of course the weight is a different one. your construction looks very elegant. pls. tell me what other mods you are planning. eckart |
Dear Thuchan, What about a silver metal surrounding with nice looking slits for the ventilation, like in a helmet (many small slits)?This is not the look that I'm after. A silver metal surround would hide the elegant stainless steel cradle which I have had built at some cost. It would also dominate the turntable 'bulk' which is quite the opposite of what I now have? If I really wanted to have a silver 'screen'.....I could just have had the black cage sprayed silver? :-) |
Dear Lewm. That's a similar advise I gave to you time ago for your DP-80, remember? I did it for my Denons DP-75/80, differences with the pictured ones were: instead of metal " plinth " I used a 40Kg base of green marble and the other in beige Onyx ( both beautifull stones. ).The stone bases were seated on the pneumatic AT-616 and the stone base was used as tonearm board too ( no stand alone arm bases. ). Now the Denon's were seated, through the TT top ring, in three very small delrin tip-toes like a top the stone bases. IMHO damping is very important for this kind of set up and that's why I don't use it metal tip toes but delrin ones and pneumatic footers that were the set up foundation. Works and looks amazing! Maybe in the future I can try again because I have the marble/onyx bases, beautiful ones. Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
I only suggest it would be interesting to listen to Halcro's TT101 with vs without the rubber isolators (or whatever they may be made of). Of course, Halcro has to do the dirty work, so it is easy for me to suggest it from 10,000 miles away. And the reason I bring it up is that Garrard guys remove the stock rubber surround between the 301 chassis and its plinth, whatever the plinth material. They say that the insertion of the rubber between the chassis and the plinth impedes the capacity of the plinth to soak up motor vibrations, and indeed it makes a lot of sense that that would be so. In a DD, any tendency for servo action to cause relative motion of the chassis vs the platter must be countered, so the same principle applies. Gosh, the TT101 is quite smooth and quiet. Just looking at it in operation, it HAS to sound great. Love those coreless motors. |
Well one can dispute the difference between 'nacked' and 'nude' as any (?) semantic question..endless. To my mind however it is a cultural question. In some Arabic countries even a 'bare foot' is considerd as 'nudity' and if the owner of the foot is a women she will be called a hooker. Some other countries have something against the 'bare knees', etc. I am surprised to see that Assies have such a limited opinion of what an plinth in general should be and which TT's should be considered as 'nacked' and which as 'nude'. Regarding our own Aussie Lew already stated that the pretended 'nudity' should be dismised because there is a plinth according to him. I even see two of those steel rings (aka plinths)connected to each other with the biggest spiks I have ever seen in my life. But, as already mentioned, the question is a cultural one while nobody knows, nor can know, where all those Assies come from and with which culture behind them. |
I didn’t think I would be writing this review……. Correction…..I didn’t think I would be writing this review with the following results and conclusions? In fact it’s hard to tear myself away from the music to devote the time to write this review….. When I designed the stainless steel cradle for the TT-101 DD turntable…..I never imagined that I would remove the surrounding slotted screen? Nor did I imagine I would be hearing much difference from the set-up I had been playing over the last 2-3 years? After all….I was simply changing the turntable supporting feet from under the screen, to directly under the top plate which is effectively how all these models of DD turntables were designed to be supported in solid plinths. I expected to be rather reserved (if not disappointed) in the changes (if any) I would hear? And perhaps that’s the way it would have played out had I not been forced to remove the outer slotted screen because I had miscalculated by 2 mm the size of the circular cut-out I had designed. Listening to the new set-up……there was instantly an audible change which confused me somewhat as I couldn’t quite ascertain exactly what it was? The more I listened….changing back and forth between 3 different arms and cartridges……the more excited I became. Firstly the silence! Now the TT-101 was always quiet….at least as quiet as the Raven AC-2……but this new ‘background’ silence was quite unnerving. There was a ‘depth’ to this silence (if that makes any sense?)….and through the ‘depth’, the ‘newly heard’ projected voices and instruments had body and tangibility. Secondly the purity! At every stage of my audio ‘upgrade’ path…….from the Halcro electronics to the Dueland speaker capacitors to the fully differentially balanced amplification operation…..there resulted a greater degree of ‘purity’…….probably best described as a lowering of distortions? This new set-up lifted the purity to another level. But the combination of these two improvements rendered a musical presentation so engrossing, so addictive, so transformative….that I broke open the Blue Label and danced a jig. But how did this happen? What really changed? The sonic results I could not reconcile with simply a support change? And then it struck me! I grabbed the slotted metal surround screen and held a magnet against it……….. This screen was magnetic steel! Now I’m not au fait with electro-magnetic theory and practice……but I do know that electrical current, transformers, power supplies and coils can produce magnetism and here was a steel enclosure surrounding this potential magnetism? If there is indeed a magnetic field being created amongst which are placed hundreds of transistors, resistors, capacitors and copper wiring…..it seems a potential for harm? Almarg…..where are you? Since I have had my TT-101…..on start-up, very often….the speed readout goes to 33.32 rpm before stabilising at 33.33 rpm after a few seconds. I thought this was normal operation? Sometimes whilst listening to records…..the sound would ‘wow’ and I would jump up to see the speed read-out at 33.29 rpm or 33.32 rpm before once again stabilising. Now on start-up…..33.33 rpm is hit straight off and there hasn’t been any speed fluctuations so far. So my advice to all those with a DD turntable possessing a steel surround…..is please remove it and listen for the differences. You may well be surprised and delighted? |
I think the word "hooker" comes from the USA. During the Civil War era, (1860s) there were prostitutes that followed the army of General Hooker, an officer of the Northern cause. Somehow, these ladies came to be known as hookers. I wonder whether General Hooker was ever aware of how his name lives on and why. Thus, if the Arabic countries use the word "hooker", I would be surprised and a little sad. Halcro, I do not think you would hear any noise from the tt due to the lack OR the presence of an RFI shield. If the outer cage is a shield, it may as well be shielding the neighboring equipment from RFI emanating from the TT101 as vice-versa. RFI going in to the TT electronics from an external source might hypothetically affect function, but there would be no noise per se. I really doubt there is anything to worry about. By the way, based on my sample, dust gets in through the slits in the outer cage anyway; dust accumulation may not be any worse without it. On the issue of rubber or similar isolators, John Nantais, a well known builder mainly of plinths for Lenco, also eschews the use of any such devices and for the reasons I gave above. On the other hand, he is building huge complex plinths specifically to enhance the performance of an idler, which has problems different to those of a DD table. And your "plinth" is minimalist and for a DD that has especially low amounts of motor energy that needs to be dissipated. The EMT927 has a huge motor, a heavy platter with a high moment of inertia, and a built-in suspension. How does that work? Is the suspension built so as to resist twisting in the horizontal plane? |
Lew, I have no idea if your story is "urban legend" or the real thing, but it was entertaining. Many years ago I helped a friend and his wife move to Connecticut for grad school at UConn. Driving through Willimantic I was amused to find the Hotel Hooker in the middle of their old downtown. From Wikipedia: "In addition, The Hotel Hooker, once infested with drugs and prostitutes, has been repurposed as a transitional living facility called the Seth Chauncy Hotel." Aptly named it would seem. |
Nice job Halcro. How tight are the threads on those spikes? My experience thinks you need a jam nut and they aren't tight. A couple of pics first implementation of soon to joining the TT club. http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h69/ecir38/Arm%20Pod/TT71/2.jpg http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h69/ecir38/Arm%20Pod/TT71/1.jpg |
Tim, Being a Connecticutian (a term of my own concoction) by birth and still a Connecticut Yankee at heart, I know Willimantic quite well. A prostitute could starve there, unless she also liked to babysit or cut grass. As it turns out, I am wrong about the association between the word "hooker" and General Fighting Joe Hooker, even though he was notorious for his patronizing of prostitutes. Seems the slang may pre-date the civil war, back to the early 19th century New York or even to England in the 1500s. No one knows for sure. Halcro, Could you be induced to make me one of those? How much does it weigh? I ask because if I were to modify your design in any way it would only be to maybe add another "ring" so as to enhance mass. Now, as to the ferrous nature of the outer cage, that is interesting and it suggests to me either that Victor chose it as a matter of convenience or that it was indeed chosen for its shielding effect. Yes, I would like to know Al's opinion also, but being ferrous it would be a shield of sorts. Note that in the owners manual also they make a big point of connecting that ground lug on the outer cage to audio system ground. That WOULD be essential if it is functional as an RFI or EMI shield. How are you grounding the TT101 with no cage? With my balanced Atma-sphere phono stage, tt grounds have always been irrelevant. With my single-ended outboard phono, grounding is critical. |
Dear Nikola, Big spikes are necessary to counter the large deflection of my cantilevered shelf :-) |
Thanks Ecir, The spikes were bought first from England and were given to the fabrication shop to custom drill and tap the legs to fit with no free play at all . They are made of the same 316 stainless steel as the cradle and come with washers and lock-nuts.....but as the rear spikes are screwed into the legs almost entirely....there is no threaded spike protruding to attach any nuts. But as I have to slide my hand under and between the arm-pods to reach the spikes to level them....any nuts would be a hellish complication :-) |
Nice work Ecir, You're close to being a fully-fledged member of the 'Copernican Club'? What material is that surrounding your Victor (is it a TT-71 or 81?)?. It's really neat....but how do you manage with ventilation? And those arm-pods are impressive. Are they bronze? How long till you're able to 'play'? |
Lewm, Did you not remember my 'incident' when I had the ground cable connected to one of the Halcro amps (as it wasn't long enough to reach the preamp? After placing the Victor on the copper Fidelity Research Cu-180 platter mat to test 'isolation'.......when I turned on the power....I blew up the Halcro phono stage and also the Dyna XV-1s cartridge which was connected at the time. A very expensive exercise..... Since then I have not had the ground wire connected (my previous TT-81 did not even have one)......and all three arms use fully balanced XLR interconnects. |
The magnetic field being produced by the transformer and power supply (even with power switch of the platter not activated).....is so great that it has managed to induce a magnetic attraction in the 316 stainless steel flat bars of the cradle. 316 stainless steel is NON magnetic!! With the original mild steel perforated cover surrounding this magnetic field completely......I cannot imagine it being a GOOD thing? Why did the Victor engineers not think so? |
I grabbed the slotted metal surround screen and held a magnet against it……….. Strange for a TT that is marketed with the word laboratory ? Just kidding Henry – cool looking project. Looks like you are having a lot of fun. I like Banquo’s use of the word “steampunk aesthetic” which if what we were looking at was all analog stuff would work for me. I have stared at too many digital circuit boards so I would be inclined to want to keep it under covers myself. From what I have heard about parts availability for that JVC I would want to prevent a setup that could cause an accident pulling of some wire ? My recommendation holds to put the table and the armpods on a dedicated shelf supported by decouplers – the AT616’s come to mind. Even though you are on the wall already..... Now I realize you are in beta trial mode and the setup is being tweaked but is that an old Canadian penny shimming the left armpod ? :^) Cheers |
but is that an old Canadian penny shimming the left armpod ? :^)Sorry Chris.....it's an Aussie 5 cent piece :-) I agree with your dedicated shelf recommendation. Just can't do it old boy.....don't have a basement listening room (or three)....like you have? :-) Don't agree with your compliant footers however. Turntables must not move in my Copernican Universe........ |
My post is declined as 'inappriate or inflamatory' probaly because I used the expressions 'hooker','prostitute' and 'whore' in the context of the logic of substitution. Substitution and quantification are interdependant so by way of introduction I mentioned 'Vienna', 'Wenen' (Dutch), Bec (Serbo Kroatian) and 'Wien' (German). The logical rule is this: whatever is true about the object refered to will stay true under substitution of names with the same reference. I called those co-refering names. Now my point was that Lew is wrong with his assumption regarding the expression 'hooker'. One may dispute the 'meaning' of those expressions but they all refer to the same, uh, profession. It is obvious that different languges have different expression for the same profession but it is also obvious that they can be substituted for each other such that the sentence in which they occur has the same sense and/or reference. The reference of an statement being arguable the truth value of the sentence. The other theory imply reference (of a statement) to something called 'fact'. Now one can feel insulted if called 'prostitute' but what can be the 'sin'of an word or an expression? The moderators obviously discrimante between 'neat words' and, say,'filthy kinds' but which linguist would make such an division? The other members also used the word 'hooker' so I assume that either 'prostitute' or 'whore' are the quilty one according to our moderators. BTW the same argument apply for 'nude' versus 'naked'; both refer to ,uh, the same thing. |
believe me, Halcro, the second I read your report I planned on taking off the casing just to see whether there's the difference you assert. It will happen soon, but I just got a new cart and want to play with it first. fyi: my tt also sometimes (but not often) starts at 33.32 or 33.34 before reaching 33.33. I had always thought it was because I clean dust off the record when I put it on and thus exert some modicum of pressure, but perhaps the real explanation is as you suggest. Also, my tt has never fluctuated in speed during play so perhaps your observations are not due to the casing? |
Halcro, on the backside I have a slot routered out for ventilation and a IEC receptacle for convenience. Looking at a couple more weeks. Have to make top plates and drill and tap a bunch of holes for footers, top plate. Also waiting for another MA505 to be delivered. The plinth is a CLD design I have used with good results with other tables. The ringing round metal shield I always thought was a weak link so it isn't being used. I had concerns about RFI so its good to hear you haven't experienced any. Pods are bronze cored or hollowbar with a 2.5" ID. Less machine work involved. There not as heavy as I would like but should get the job done. Plans down the road is to try nude and build another similar plinth with cantilevered armbords that will look similar to the Project RPM. Deck is a 71. Built plinth to accommodate a 81 or 101 if I ever find one to my liking, don't really want a 81. Just got tired of waiting so went with the 71 so I would be ready when the time comes. Good to hear your satisfaction, table looks wicked. |
Nandric, Are the moderators THAT prudish? Shame on them. Halcro, Good on you that you did not agree with Ct to use compliant footers. We are not so far apart in our thinking. I discussed with Bill Thalmann your finding that the cage is ferrous and therefore attracted by a magnet. Bill agreed with me that it must be meant as an EMI/RFI shield to protect the outside world from RFI generated from the TT101. (The quartz crystal oscillator is a prime source of RFI. Maybe that's why the clock oscillator is also tucked up into the upper metal structure, away from the rest of the circuitry.) As to the fact that you've observed an effect of the motor on your new steel plinth, I would submit that the ferrous outer cage would also soak up the magnetic lines of force from the motor and also protect the outside world from the magnetics. (But I find it odd that the magnetic effect would be so strong, maybe from the transformer, in some way?) Grounding the cage provides a way to drain RFI to ground, as well as electrical grounding. If you don't ground it, it cannot work so well as a shield. |
Lewm - Halcro, Good on you that you did not agree with Ct to use compliant footers. We are not so far apart in our thinking. Lewm/Halcro – please tell me how my SP10 TT setup is compliant ? The SP10 is bolted into the base at both ends as is the 20 - lb armpod using a recessed bolt. Both the SP10 and the Armpod are easily converted to spikes. Here is a pic for you. http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/i/f/1368395046.jpg Interested in your comments on how to improve it. Its been a neglected TT for too long. I haven't got around to making an aesthetic base for it yet. cheers. |
Chris, Pneumatic or 'compliant' footers are designed solely to try to prevent the passage of Structure-Borne feedback into the turntable plinth/bearing/platter/tonearm/cartridge system. Suspended turntables are an attempt to achieve the same result and can be somewhat successful compared to the alternative? Suspended floor systems....whether timber-framed, steel-framed or reinforced concrete.....are all subject to Structure-Borne feedback which can suffer frequency transmission between 4-10 Hz and depending on amplitude.....can cause physical movement in the flooring system. The more a compliant footer is compressed....the less successful it is in attenuating these low frequencies yet the less the footer is compressed....the more movement (in all planes) is possible. That's why a Minus K stand is 'tuned' to specific weights and is able to move alarmingly when pushed? Because of the problems in effectively designing an integral 'compliant' or 'sprung' footer system for turntables.....most new racks and shelving systems utilise a Stillpoints type of ball and cup isolation as well as constrained layer damping. This Stillpoints type of footer is used for turntables, speakers and even amplifiers these days. As you know that my turntable is placed on a masonry wall-mounted shelf and avoids any form of Structure-Borne feedback......I'm puzzled by your suggestion to 'improve' my set-up by using compliant footers? In my situation....all this will do is introduce possible movement of the footers due to weight shifting of the tonearm and cartridge as well as temperature and humidity variations? There is no possible 'up-side' to compliant footers if there is no Structure-Borne feedback. Now if your system is sitting on a suspended floor-mounted rack or shelving system........there may be advantages to your method of support? :-) |
Dear Lew, I forget alas your quote of the comment by Twain about Wagner but I have similar comment about our moderators. They are not as bad as they look. Propably little bit 'prudish' but well sportsmanlike because they allowed my post from 08-23-13 which was not very nice for them. However I fear that my panishment with moderator approval is meant for life. They obviously have no idea how old I am. |
Hi Henry - just as you heard a profound difference with the change in TT support and spikes on your masonry wall shelf. You will also hear more difference if you put a shelf just big enough to hold the TT and armpods on your existing shelf and decouple it further. I used the word decouple not compliant. But I did reference the at-616. This is what I meant by a dedicated shelf and I was selfishly wondering what it would sound like to you. Just curious. I thought it would be fun. I have found many times in this hobby that going against your beliefs can lead to interesting results. As an example my old VPI JMW 12 tonearm never sounded better than when it was sitting on an armpod which sat on 3 symposium roller block jrs. With the sp10 setup I showed. I can go from a spiked setup to a bolted in one in a couple of hours. btw - Have you seen Des' (Dgob) most recent setup? His sp10 is also on the wall. Guess what lies under it ? Once you have used the AT-616's its hard to let them go. probably work great under big amps too. Continue to have fun and inspire ... Ecir38 - I just saw your pics. very cool too. nice looking project. Cheers |
Hi Chris, You will also hear more difference if you put a shelf just big enough to hold the TT and armpods on your existing shelf and decouple it further.“Differences” can be dangerous? There are many things in this strange hobby of ours which can make our systems sound “different”? This is really not what I am after….nor you I think? I am after a closer approximation of ‘fidelity’….a truth to source and a decrease in the many distortions which so easily manifest themselves? 35 years ago….I read that someone found putting solid rubber balls (cut in half) under each corner of the speaker……decouples the speaker and resulted in better sound. I bought 4 rubber balls the size of tennis balls and cut them in half and placed each half under the corners of my speakers. I must admit I didn’t hear a vast difference….but I listened like this for over a year until I read the theory of rigid speaker de-coupling via spikes? Ralph Karsten of Atmasphere states quite eloquently….that with an outboard phono-stage, if the sound changes depending on interconnects used…..then one or both sets of interconnects is wrong and is adding (or subtracting) its own colourations. You may be right that placing my whole turntable system upon another shelf which sits on isolators will change the sound? If I then proceed to change those isolators….most likely the sound will change again? Why is that ‘better’?….and who determines that it is? I bought a complete set of Stillpoint Ultra Minis and placed them under my TT-101 instead of the spikes. The sound changed not one iota! That was a good sign :-) This is a test that you should do Chris……and also Dgob? Anyone wanna buy a set of Stillpoint Ultra Minis? :-) If your system is indeed improved by the added shelf and footers……I suspect that placing a Minus K stand under your turntable will make a bigger ‘difference’? One that may be …”hard to let go.” Something to consider Chris? At some stage….we all need to be comfortable with the choices and compromises we have made based on experience, learning and intellect. The never-ending quest for ‘fidelity’ goes on :-) |
isolated/decoupled or coupled. Chris looks to me you have the best of both worlds on your SP10. As a basis a table that uses pods I would couple, a table with fixed armboards I would decouple. But nothing is fixed in stone since it would be hard to compare any two situations for any examples in this thread, just too many variable independent to each users platforms. i.e. Halcro, it looks to me that your TT is decoupled from its steel structure sitting on those rubber pads which has given you a positve result. I would suspect the changes you are hearing are not so much the metal shield but more from how the deck is now suspended. |
Chris, Without getting into the debatable issues, I am trying to figure out how your own description of that SP10 matches with what I think I see in the photo. From the photo, and the two smaller inset photos which I cannot get my computer to enlarge for me, I think I see that the SP10 sits on spikes that are inverted such that their pointy tips are going up into the threaded bolt inserts on the bottom surface of the SP10 escutcheon. I don't see anything "compliant" in that. Then I see also that you are a Copernican; your tonearm is on a heavy brass pod. Is all of the above correct? Just by eyeball, your brass pod appears to be canted with respect to the SP10 platter surface. Probably an optical illusion. |
Gentlepeople. The debate between those that like compliant type supports and those that go for the hard supports has raged on forever. My view is that if you have a suitably still shelf, hard is the way to go. From reading here it seems that those that prefer hard supports make them all out of the same material. I believe that this arrangement can be improved, if your goal is to wick energy out of the TT structure. By using, say, three identical hard feet you are creating multiple paths to the shelf (ground). This is the electrical equivalent of an earth loop. I have experimented with identical and dissimilar feet on my TT and have settled with one fixed using a tungsten carbide ball, and two adjustable using large PVC discs. The PVC discs are softer than the plinth material and in theory tend to slow and impede transmission. The single TG ball is fast and creates one clean path to ground. Just another view on things. |
Richard, agree with you. i would also go for something between the spikes and the shelf. Harmonix has fantastic small plates to put the spikes on (not that much expensive). Does it change the sound? Yes, definitely! Or you end up with putting the table on a Harmonix RSB-1 platform. Does it change the sound? Yes! Does it change your budget? Oh yes... |
Halcro. My TT uses one fixed duralium foot with a central tungsten carbide ball which contacts the shelf. This gives a point contact much like a spike. The other two feet are PVC discs 80mm in diameter with a rebate such that the circumference only touches the shelf. These are adjustable. See a pic on my web site www.krebsupgrade.com The triangular TT where you can see the adjustable feet. My view on this is that having multiple paths to a mechanical earth creates a smearing effect that is clearly audible. "Earth loop" was perhaps not the correct description. The common electrical paradigm is that a component must have only one path to earth. My view is that the same holds true for mechanical systems. So, yes, if you use spikes only one should have direct contact with the shelf (earth). The other two should be coupled to the shelf with a slightly softer material than the spike itself. I am not advocating anything that would be considered compliant here, just something softer than the spike, maybe a hard plastic. Simply another point of view. Thanks. |
Nice one Richard, makes pefect sense to me. Something I will keep in mind for future projects. I have always found it difficult to find adjustalbe footers for turntables to my liking. I like the ones that trans-fi makes that I use on my garrard but they are just too large for most tables. He uses o-rings on the bottom of the protector disc so should be easy to try by removing one. I would think your method would be easily adopted to a table with fixed armboard compared to a table with multiple pods. Suprised the market hasn't adopted this method yet that I know of. |
Another design philosophy that one might consider is to minimise the number of joins and material changes, hence transmission speeds, between the LP/platter interface, around the loop to the arm and cartridge/stylus. Empirically it would seem to make sense that a join between dissimilar materials could do some damage to the integrity of this loop. This could include CLD techniques which, while very effective, should be implemented with this in mind. Something for consideration? |
Hi Lewm - you posted Lewm - From the photo, and the two smaller inset photos which I cannot get my computer to enlarge for me, I think I see that the SP10 sits on spikes that are inverted such that their pointy tips are going up into the threaded bolt inserts on the bottom surface of the SP10 escutcheon. I don't see anything "compliant" in that. Sorry for the confusion. The photo was my feeble attempt at a type of collage showing the latest setup Version 5. But the previous pic also showed the previous version SS legs which confused things. Here is an updated pic. http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/i/f/1377781727.jpg Version 4 is the bottom right pic. Moving clockwise Version 4.5 can be seen and then the latest Version 5. Version four uses the pointy Solid Stainless Steel legs - the points are matched to the indentation of the cone footers They are heavy enough couple pounds each; add in the sp10 weight - and you easily indent the shelf they are placed on. In this case its a Mennonite made maple block (acting in the plinth role in this setup). The threaded flat holes at the other end of the SS pointy legs use a threaded joiner and that side gets screwed into the sp10 (in all versions) Various different materials can be wrapped around the threaded joiner before inserting and will affect sound. The latest setup shown - bigger pic - has everything rigidly bolted in SP10 and Armpod. The SS legs in this version have threaded holes both ends (with threaded joiners at both ends for bolting into the sp10 and the black shelfl which in this set up, is now in the plinth role. The same maple block is no longer playing the plinth role and has been decoupled. My definition of a plinth (so no confusion with my post)the immediate base structure that holds all the TT system goods. :^) You had posted earlier Just by eyeball, your brass pod appears to be canted with respect to the SP10 platter surface. Probably an optical illusion. isnt this whole hobby a sort of audible illusion ? Its probably the phone camera shot in low light but even if it was a mini version of a leaning tower a pisa it would not matter. The ET2 mounted on it has three leveling spikes and can be leveled on any surface. I have also had the top mounted Dynavector tonearm on this solid brass armpod. Now a tower of pisa would be a problem with it. I'd like to mention a small but very significant point. I add some oil in the one hole at the top of the brass arm pod that is used to secure the ET2. I hear the difference. I believe the oil works (with resonances) in a similar fashion to the actual damping trough on my reference ET 2.5 which is in my main room. Cheers |
Hi Richard - thanks for sharing those ideas. If I understand you are using three leg supports under your triangle TT. One is the "alpha" leg the leader for energy transmission, while the other two are slower followers? Are you not worried about energy in the plinth getting built up in those two areas with the pvc legs? Did you have a way to test this other than by listening? My sp10mkII when being set up on my SS legs clearly shows a very heavy "weight bias" to the front left when viewed from the front - where start/stop switch is. Is the Sp10mkIII similar in weight distribution? Would this mean the alpha leg goes on the heavier corner of your plinth ? also I am curious. Do you have an opinion on how your theory would work with a turntable that does not use a thrust bearing? Air Bearing or Magnetic propulsion for levitation? thanks |
