what truth are you talking about, from what if have seen along with personal shots at me is bashing, if what you are looking for is the best of the best in all that audio can deliver why are you screwing around with nuforce, i know nuforce is not in that category, and i have never seen that said.
but for me the gear works.
super resolution, detailed, hours on end music sessions, no fatigue. of course that includes my other components.
if that is what you have with your system great.
so whats the negativity all about here. |
9RW, quoting once more the sage of Appenzell:
"one often has problems with experimental seekers of the small and sadly subjective truth (note small 't'), when one has already been so fortunate to grok a-priori The ultimate absolute and ever objective True Truth(note Cap 'T').
The only residual problems experienced by all lucky holders of the Grand True Truth to end all Megagalactic True Truths is. . . . that they do not seem ever to agree on what the darn thing may be!"
[Aloysius Q. Schmaltzenstein Gavronsky] |
Stltrains: This is about seeking the truth -- in audio and beyond. Do you have a problem with that? |
Stltrains, I have not heard the NewForce amp as yet. I was attracted to it and to this thread because of its promise of a low cost, musical and crisp sounding solution. Still am, in spite of having found on this thread a small minority of 'true believers', which remind me of the strictures of the regimes mentioned above. Autocratic regimes are not at all only about mass murders, violence, political repression, invasion of other countries, etc. . . They are also about the slow smuthering of open discourse in the fine arts, and the choking of differing aesthetics and philosophical schools of thought around the fine arts--musical or otherwise, by those who have aspoused the Truth. Please do look up the life and times of Zdanov, the ideolog of social realism in the arts. Please do rest assured that I will still post to this thread and others like it, and I will eventually have the opportunity to listen to the NewForce and evaluate it critically and with a completely open mind, in spite of any minor stridencies encountered in these pages. |
yea audio and world events like terrorism, discrimination, mass murder, and worse have a whole lot in common, what BS. this is not rocket science or world events its audio. most of you controversial posters on this thread are not true audiophiles, or you would be glad other audiophiles have happiness in there systems, it seems though for just some odd reason nuforce gear is not to your liking. and if its not what you own or like then bash it, i guess its because these little super fine revealing amps make your big, slow, hot, and super expensive amps a bad choice.
i really dont care what you say or post i wont be reading it you losers are out of my club.
enjoy your miserable lives. |
|
Right on, controversy is a terrible thing. . . and that's exactly why it was rightfully barred for 70 years in the USSR, 25 years in Italy, 7 years in Greece, 11 years in Germany, 59 years in China. . . disperse now good people and cease disturbing the peace. . . or else! |
Very impressive Audiooracle. You forgot to mention the identity of your current business. . . If you were wondering about the origin of my morbid curiosity, I am still itching to find out the name of the $21K SS sacred cow which NewForced creamed with such aplomb. Or does thy moniker connote that classically minded propensity towards eternal obscurity, indirection, and even misdirection, like in the pronouncements of Delphi, sybilla, and all other true oracles of old?
Viclondon, I was not aware that the thread was open to true believers only. . . is there something I am missing? |
my goodness do you people have anything better to do than not only look to start controversy, but keep stirring it. this thread was started to inform and interject nuforce gear. you dont like it no doubt, who cares i dont. if you want to start a thread do it and move on. you are making audiogon look like something other than an audio site. more like a group of ginny women. |
Check out Audiooracle's feedback . . .
So you're a good salesman. That doesn't mean you can hear. And working for Sound by Singer is actually a negative. Check out what Audiogon members think about that place and how it treats folks.
So what are the other amps that NuForce destroyed? |
Audiooracle
Impressive portfolio. Only forgoten that you've attended Mars as Alf's audio consultant... And, of course, add Paris Hilton as your close friend... And all others out there commiting suicide knowing such a big gun exists on this humble forum!!! |
Audiooracle stated
"How can a set of amplifiers which cost 1/2 to 1/4 of the price of these mondo expensive amplifiers be over priced, if anything the Nuforce products are a bargin!"
Audiooracle - 1/2 or 1/4 of sth's price should be bargain, until you list internal parts included. Tell us what superior-tech part into the NF box is so expensive (transformer, caps, colling devices... - I am listing usually priciest ingredients)? Not to mention big, expensive chassis the big boys possess...
I have listened NF 8s and found sterile and boring, easily beaten by mid-priced amp like Parasound Halo A21. Can't beleive that 9 series in any incarnation incl. V2 SE might go much better...
MY OPINION: Nu Force comic boxes TOO EXPENSIVE in terms of technology inside, particularly in Europe. In reality, prices on approx. 1/4 level of current prices may be acceptable. 1250USD for a pair od 9 V2 SE - no one cent more!!! |
To Bill Old fool, again we get into this you will never know more about audio then me,unlike you, I DO NOT DO THIS AS A HOBBY! I have been a professional audio salesman for close to 20 years and have worked for two of the top high end audio dealerships in the US before opening up my own shop in late 2005. Here is my professional resume:
Started working in high end sales at Sound by Singer in New York in 1989 worked there until 2005 except for for three years working for Innovative Audio.
In close to 20 years in New York professional audio retail, by the way Bill before you became a "dealer" what did you do for a living? I have sold thousands of components and hundreds of systems. I have gone to CES, CEDIA, and worked two of the Stereophile shows.
I was the top Wilson Salesman in the 1990
I was the top Transparent Audio salesman in 19992
I was one of the top Krell salespeople in the 1990s
I was one of the top DCS salespeople in the country
I was one of the top VTL salespeople in the country
I was the top VAC salespeople in the country
I was the top Meadowlark Audio salespeople in the country
I was the top BAT salesman in 2000-2005
I was one of the top Nordost, Black Diamond Racing, and
Synergistic Research salespeople in history of those companies
I designed a $300,000.00 board room project for Tommy Boy Records.
I designed a $200,000.00 mastering room monitoring system for the late Gabe Weiner of Quintessential Sound in New York, this system was on the cover of Mix Magizine.
I was flown to England twice to setup a $150,000.00 high end home theater as well as Canada for the same thing.
I have sold and played with Halcro, Burmester, Krell, Audio Research, CJ, Boulder, Krell, Spectral, Audio Note, Audio Valve, VAC, Manley, VTL, JM Labs, Wilson, Pipedreams, Apogee, Martin Logan, Sonus Faber, DCS, Esoteric, Bel Canto and more brands than I can remember.
I am ISF certified, and have studied acoustics and home theater design with Russ Hershelman and Keith Yates.
I now own my own shop with close to $600,000.00 worth of high end on DISPLAY not in catalog pictures like you.
Can you please tell the readers how real a dealer you are by showing pictures of your showrooms or the amount of equipment you have on active display!
Bill go back to the little corner of the world where you reside and let the big boys play, as you have demonstrated you are full of bravado but you can't back any of it up.
My resume is public knowledge in the industry, I know most of the vendors in this industry by name and over the years I have worked with most of them.
You are a self proclaimed expert, please let us hear how much you really know about this industry and this hobby.
I am all ears are you?
|
Viclondon: Who pulled your bloody chain? Stay on your side of the ocean -- where you belong. We won our independence hundreds of years ago. I respond to people in kind.
I was just trying to find out how many iterations of this amp there have been and in what time span. No one has provided that information. Could it be that it's embarrassing to the company? I am certainly not the only one who has made this observation.
Audiooracle: Here we go again. How about naming those amps that NuFarce is beating? Guidocorona has asked dealers to do that. It shouldn't be so difficult to comply. |
Yes Drubin I was referring to ARC. Some people can't read or tell the truth because they are too consumed with self promotion.
They know who they are.
Thank you,
Bill Feil |
Oracle,
This "old fool" forgot more than you'll ever know about audio. |
First of all Audiofeil has listed and still lists Nuforce on his website and now says: that Nuforce amplifiers are over priced, and under performing and now all of a sudden he is not carrying them. Go back and read his entire post. I think he was referring to ARC when he made those comments, though it confused me at first, too. |
Dear Nuforce supporters, please do not second guess what you are hearing based on Audio Feil or some of the other negative posters.
First of all Audiofeil has listed and still lists Nuforce on his website and now says: that Nuforce amplifiers are over priced, and under performing and now all of a sudden he is not carrying them.
Either Bill's hearing has suddenly shifted or the man has no integrity and jumped on the Nuforce bandwagon to make a quick buck.
Talk about overpriced his cartridge man isolator sells for $150 bucks for a little bit of foam!
How come he features lines on his website which he doesn't sell such as Nuforce, Usher, and many others?
The new V2 versions Bill has never heard,have only shipped recently. The V2 versions are dramatically better than the Se version which were really good. The new V2 product has propelled Nuforce into the class of some of the world best amplifiers.
We Sell some very expensive class A and Class A/B amplifiers which are very respected products, and many of our customers are going with the Nuforce, so draw your own conclusions.
How can a set of amplifiers which cost 1/2 to 1/4 of the price of these mondo expensive amplifiers be over priced, if anything the Nuforce products are a bargin!
In fact I am actively searching the market to see if I can find a better sounding more expensive solid state amplifier that can beat the overall superb sound quality of the Nuforce, and I am looking at amplifiers which sell for $10,000.00 to $20,000.00!
I am sure Bill will chime in and accuse me of being a shameless self promoter, but I will take a shameless self promoter who believes in his products than this old fool who knows nothing and has no integrity to boot.
|
I want to interject in this thread;
The discussion of why a product was dropped from a line-up should never be discussed in the public. In the end - it does no one any good. Unless there are downright criminal things going on that can be backed up with irrefutable evidence, I'd suggest keeping such discussion confidential/private.
Just a friendly suggestion based off of some first-hand experience... take it for what you feel its worth. |
"NuForce bested my ARC VT100MKII hands down. An immediate knockout"
That was certainly not my experience. I had the 8.02's, and a VT100 mk2 at the time. I found the Nuforces boring, and sterile compared to the ARC. They were initially impressive sounding, but I did not want to listen long, unlike the multi hour sessions with the ARC. They just did not sound as natural as the ARC. But then, the ARC was more than twice the price, so it should have been better, and was. |
9rw,
have you ever thought about getting a life? It could seriously improve your general mood.
We are just talking bloody hi-fi, if you are not interested in Nuforce you could go elsewhere, take up golf, get a vacation, a better job, make a friend, just stop insulting people for no reason.
I really feel sorry for you, for the way you are intruding this thread and for all the people you have insulted |
jb8312,
Nuforce is an extremely revealing amp; it cannot compensate for poor recordings. If there was an amp that could make "Californication" sound properly million of people would buy it...
NF amps are also extremely fussy about all the ancillary equipment. Yesterday I was contacted by a member of a UK forum who was curious abut the NF, as he wanted a summer amp to get besides his McIntosh 275; he asked me to come to an audition. We spent a few hours of good time listening and we did some cable swapping. The differences we heard were very noticeable to say the least.
I was a bit nervous about his judgment because my rig is totally American:
Opus 21>NF ref9SE v2>gallo ref3II
so the sound of my rig is very, very lively, the way I like it, but totally different from the general British sound, very polite (always please and thank you) and laid back. To make a long story short, the next day he went all the way to the NuForce dealer and not just for the summer, but for all seasons... |
Audiofeil, was your decision to drop NewForce based on its sound? Could you characterize it? |
So what about my question on the RFI and EMI concerns? Has this issue been fixed 100% in the V2? If so, I will give the amps another trial in my system. I just don't want to burn through some more time and money if this issue is still going to interfere with my turner. |
I dropped Nuforce a while back. Your comments are not relevant.
Thank you. |
Now I am admittedly speechless. . . if NewForce has made short shrift of both Rotel and the mighty Bose. . . I shall withdraw in quiet awe of the Force of this staggering New giant! |
Hi 9rw,
I have not made any request to handle the line. As a whole the products are overpriced, underachieving, obsolete, and low value.
They are a tough sell based on the balance of other products available.
An informed audiophile would know that. That leaves you out I guess. |
Uh-oh. Another NuFarce dealer enters the fray. ARC probably turned him down when he tried to be a dealer. Is that what happened, Bill? |
Viclondon - Good Post. I agree the NuForce handle a broad range of music very well. I did find a weakness last night. After listening to some really well recorded music, I decided some U2 was in order. I was never more aware of just how compressed the Joshua tree disc was until that moment.
Now, recall I just got done listening to a wonderfully recorded live event (Diane Reeves; In the Moment) so I was really In the Moment, I am afraid that even the NuForce could not compensate for the compression that was the Joshua Tree disc. I was listening at very high levels (16/31 on the digital volume)so it was still a lot of fun.....just a little eye-opening.
PS: Unfortunately, this place is taking on a bit of the AA flavor that I could not take any longer. |
>>NuForce bested my ARC VT100MKII hands down<<
Most amps will. The VT100MKII, like most ARC amps, is a dog. |
Stltrains: Actually, I did the butt-kicking. And I'm certainly not an audio snob. That's pretty funny. I might have to take you up on that invitation. You'd better warn the alligators. |
NuForce bested my ARC VT100MKII hands down. An immediate knockout. |
9rw you arrogant audio snob, did your mom not give you enough toys to play with, or did you get you butt kicked a lot. its got to be something for a human being to act like you. i dont have a thing against you or the equipment you like, just trying to get through life happily, the invite is still on though, i have a nice swamp tour lined up for you. the swamp is so lively at night. get in touch. |
I am probably the first person to have bought a Ref 9 SE v2 in Great Britain.
Before upgrading from my humble Unison Unico (but I have owned a fair share of respectable stuff in the past) I auditioned a lot of the most hyped amps in this side of the pond for the same price braket, including Krell, Primare, Bryston, Bel Canto, Moon, McIntosh, EAR Yoshino, Meridian, and a few more. To my ears there was not even a remote competition: the NuForce were in a totally different league.
I don't have the same experience of many here, but I have own my share of equipment in the last 30 years and I have been going to hifi shows constantly. I was always thinking that amps at any price point were a compromise, I never find one that for my taste was totally right (far from that). I listen to an extremely broad palette of music and these are my findings:
- Some really good tube amps have a marvellous tonality and magic mids when listening to simple acoustic music or classic, but every single one that I have heard fall apart whenever things get more dynamic or electric and in a lot of cases bass get slow and muddy
- A few very good (and very expensive) solid state amps get the bass and dynamic much better, but mids and highs are often grainy, dry, or uninvolving. Very few SS amps get close to what I wanted, but they are extremely expensive, bulky, heavy and generate tonnes of heat.
With the NuForce I have finally got something that is not a compromise, or an amp that forces me to listen just to a certain kind of music. To my ears and for the sort of music I listen to it is the only amp that totally satisfy me, at any price point.
PS: in this thread I have seen a couple of the nastiest people I have met in forums |
How about meeting a teacher instead? Based on your writing prowess, you made it clear through the second grade. |
O yea 9rw you are so right, boy the nuforce gear really socked it to the rotel gear and it smoked bose to, i got a invite for you if you ever come to south louisiana get in touch sure would like to meet a audio expert like you, |
So NuForce smoked Rotel. This is all starting to make a lot more sense. |
Rumadian i will be sending in my ref 9 SE amps next week for the V-2 upgrade. as for the strengths of my SEs along with the rest of my system, pure musical enjoyment for hours on end.
They easily drive my tylers which together throw a wide and deep sound stage. imaging that is very well placed. rock bottom bass, mid and upper range that is just right for my preference musical choice rock and roll. My system is completely rebuilt from scratch due to Katrina wiping me out.
Compared to my rotel, rocket setup my new system is easily superior in sound quality, and long term listening.
Other than classic rock and roll. i like the blues with some occasional classical. |
Rumadian thank you, your post is very helpful. Stltrains, please tell us more about the relative strengths of the New Force amps you own. What other devices have you compared them to? In what music do they excell, and why? |
Guidocorona thats what the site is all about what you have said above. digging for the truth. you can do all of the research you want. as we all know actual auditions of gear in your system is the only way to know the truth. most manufacturers now have a in home audition program. any time you have gear in your system like your giants, and they have proved there pleasure to you over that long period of time is super. good luck in finding a replacement. |
Guidocorona,
First and foremost, I must confess, I simply do not believe in giant killers. I do believe in giants eg; products that deliver performance previously un-attainable in their price class. More and more often, people are becoming fixated with the notion that they can slay giants with inexpensive marvels. While there are plenty of great alternatives out there at the end of the day there is only so much performance many of these pieces can offer. The exciting thing however, is that you can get so close for so little.
Stepping off my soapbox and getting to your questions; I got an ear on the NuForce Ref 9.02 SE a year or so ago. Note that I did not own the piece, nor did I spend a large amount of time with the unit. I heard it paired with a few expensive electrostatics and dynamic cones and domes. This much I will say; if you have speakers that are require lots of current to really sing, and if you like your sound a bit forward and out into the room with all the added goodies of excellent detail, speed, control, and dynamics the NuForce could really delight. A good example would be Dynaudio speakers, which I found to be an exceptional match with the NuForce house-sound. One of the things I also love about NuForce is how invested they are into the market. This isnt just another one-man operation out of some garage NuForce are in it for the big time. People often dont know and subsequently cannot appreciate just how much effort that money it takes to do what they are doing.
The H2O Signature 150 is my favorite powerhouse class D amplifier. There is no other amp for $2000 that is built so whole-hog. It weighs roughly 50 pounds, and can drive any speaker on the planet (including the vaunted Apogee Scintilla), as it well should. While it is an ICE powered amp, it has a very warm and sweet sound that has offered the best blend of resolution/musicality that Ive come across in a high powered amplifier. Yet with all that said, like everything else, it wont be to everyones liking. |
Stltrains, my amps are 2 20 years old JRDG 7M golden giants, and I am starting to get an education in view of upgrading, hence my presence on this and other related threads. I am intrigued by potential of class D/T. Yet I am a seeker, never a 'believer'. For me NewForce is yet another device worth examining. . . critically, that is. . . like everything else I listen to, including the gear I own and love, and any amp that I may have fallen in love but do not own. If audiophiles love Newforce, I wish to find out why, when and how. What amps have they compared it to? What were the differences? Pros and cons? Makes sense? |
Hi Rumadian, have you had occasion of comparing the latest NewForce and H2O Signature 150 or any other class D/T amp? What are your impressions? Do you see any 'giant killer's in any of the new technology amps? |
this is the thing with nuforce gear in my experience, and others i have seen. ref 9 was a very good amp in my system. then nuforce released SE, and the reviewers gave good press to that upgrade, and with mine and others that i have read here on the Internet the press was right. now as nuforce upgrades there entire amp line with V2. reviewers got first taste of this technology. and as of yet not one negative anything, now that regular audiophiles are getting V2 more of the same. fine gear.
no doubt any given piece of gear is not for everyone. yet when it comes to nuforce and class d amps people want to knock them. man if you are happy with your system god bless you, and enjoy.
for me i'm happy with my nuforce amps and preamp. and this thread is for people who are getting or have V2 to share there thoughts.
why the responses to this thread that have nothing to do with what it was started for.
start or add info to threads that interest you for the gear you have. |
When discussing any piece of gear; the question always is, compared to what? Reviews that paint a broad brush (as they so often do) often lead people into this false hope that any piece out there that is just plop and drop short of a miracle. Everyone wants a 'giant killer'. Everyone wants a lot for not much green down; yet at the end of the day it all boils down to experience, expectations, taste, and intelligent system planning. |
>>Reviews say that as good as they are the latest version is even better. I have the faith.<<
"A foolish faith in authority is the worst enemy of the truth"
-Albert Einstein |
Lngbruno
Reviews say that as good as they are the latest version is even better. I have the faith. |
Lacee - I agreee with your lodgic, and with that said, I bekleive me the Ref 9 SE V2 is their best and (maybe) final.
Never say never, right? But, I think with this version, NuForce should stand on it and let the market take them in. They are very very good, perhaps the sound they have been chasing with the earlier versions.
God, help us all. |
My response to the responses about my response.Some audio history that influences my take on NuForce upgrades.I was an original adoptee of the very first Oracle turntable and felt that it had certain things going for it that my old LP12 didn't.Well after a few upgrades I got out of the Oracle pit I had dug for myself.But my friend who kept his Linn stayed on for the ride right up to the Valhala mods and then he quit.Now they have an even more improved lp12 which I heard in comparison with the older Linn. The new one wins.So do the new Oracles,so do the newest of most audio gear.Yet why do some designs and gear become classics and win the test of time?Why are people willing to pay 4 times what an original 15 ohm LS3/5A cost when it was new?
I have nothing against the nu er NuForce,I hope it is an improvement over the first ones that I heard which didn't touch me in any positive ways musically and were as far from what I call listenable as it gets.Rough around the edges is too easy a description.But they were brought to market that way and sold after some good press. Then NuForce started to get other less flatering opinions and not just schoolboy first crush gushing reviews.It was then that they felt they could improve the amps.So from their track record of let the public tell us what is wrong and we'll fix it approach to audio,new improved versions keep popping up.
So I ask all my detractors, "what's wrong with waiting it out for the final best version?"
You know it's coming don't you? |
Okay, everyone has their likes and dislikes of the overall sound signature of the NuForce amps. My biggest complaint about them (I did have a 9 in my system for a while) was the RFI interference with my Tuner and telephone. Did they get that fixed 100%? If so, then I may give them another spin on the dial.
Zilla, you stated, I should be sending mine in, in about two to three weeks... Everyone that listens agrees the sound is simply awesome. The 9SE's are the best amps that I have heard or owned. If the older version is awesome...and [the] best amp
you have ever heard or owned, why in Einsteins name would you be sending it in to get upgraded? |
