It is hard to find a recent review of these speakers. The few comments I been able to find on the Mk 11 version is that they are either very good or very bad. All reviews seem to like the bass response, that is a good thing, but what about all the other qualities ? Like treble, midrange, dynamics, soundstage , etc.
I am really interested in these (I like the way the look )but I have no way to audition them in the southeast corner of Michigan.
So, please anyone that can give an honest opinion of the speakers sonic qualities would be appreciated.
If your comments sound like a winner, I may hop on a plane to hear them somewhere.
Now come on guys. All you have to do is run one pair of cables from your Amp to the bottom spade/bananas. Run the second set of speaker cables from your Amp to the top Midrange/Tweeter module. Take the cheap jumper plates outcompletly!
By the way , I recieved my speakers Monday. The packaging is awesome! The boxes they came in may make a speaker do it yourself project someday. The Dark cherry looks great! Much better than I thought. Quality through out. My wife actually said they look very nice. I have the speakers breaking in on another system front to front , out of phase, on continuos Rock. I figure if I can last 2 weeks like that I will be set with break in. Then I can compare...
you know, "Ozzy" is right. We went through this on another thread about the JRs. In fact a dealer told me to use all four of the bass mods posts!. yep, it's true. take out the plates or leave them in, I heard no diff on the JRs. BUT do hook to the lowest posts and the highest posts. Ever how you want to do it. Jumpers, Shotguns. or extended bi wires.
Wow! I'm still amazed why that extra set of posts is there anyhow... couple pieces of wire inside sure would be better, and less the enigma.
Gammajo, I use Transparent cable that I purchased for abt USD400. You can check the price from montana-audio.ch. Otherwise just goggle Transparent cable. I didnt try other jumpers so cant comment on the difference. Ozzy, Blindjim, I connected 1 terminal of the speaker cable to the lower post and 1 to the upper post of the bass unit as well. Are you saying u dont need the jumper cables at all to connect the other 2 binding post of the bass unit? well I have not tried it. Will check it out when I back fr holiday in a few days. Happy listening
Ozzy Congradulations and I am glad you like the fit and finish. Let us know about the sound after breakin. The manual I recieved last spring was unclear about removing the jumpers between the two sets of posts on the woofer module. I called Von S and he said that he was going to rewrite the manual for better clarity so yours may be different and I was told to leave the jumper in place when biwiring direct from amp to mid/tweeter, and from amp to lowest posts on the woofer module. This sounds great to me. Do you have good reason to remove the jumpers?
I believe the only purpose for the extra set of spades and the jumper plate is for when you simply want to connect a single cable (not biwire) to the speakers. In that case, from your Amp connect a single run cable to the bottom spades put the jumper plate in place and then use the supplied Von Schweilkert cord to connect the top unit to the bottom unit. You also could connect a single wire from your Amp to the spk bottom spades , use the jumper plate and then connect another short wire from the top bottom spades of the lower module to the upper module spk inputs. (not using the Von Schweikert supplied cord).
Blindjim, Yes I recieved the Mk 11. They visually look really nice. Cant wait to listen to them.
Instructions are vague on all the cones, spikes, allen wrench screws pads etc.
I must mention also that Von Schweikert customer service thus far has been terrible !! E--- Rarely, does someone answer the phone, or messages are not able to be left and if you manage to be able to leave a message no one calls you back ! I talked to VS JR once, and he promised a return call, never happened! Such a nice looking product , such lousy Customer service!
I remember Melos Audio was like that, and they soon went out of Buisness, Von Schweikert better listen up !
Perhaps, I should start another thread on usAudiogon members Customer service experience with VS.
There was a thread about service about 4 months ago. At that time I talked to them and they were very apologetic, promising that they were hiring some new service agents. In the past (as recently as a year ago) they were so small that Von or Jr himself handled almost all calls. Back in those good old days Von or son would talk to you for a hour at a time if that is what it took. Then they were overwhelmed with volume as they had some hits such as VR JR. I know they were trying to have thier dealers handle most inquires about set up etc. But they should have at least indicated that your email is being forwarded to your dealer so one would know if it even was recieved. For now I would use the quote "Never attribute to malace what you can account for by stupidity". And let them know. They really do seem sincere about making a good product and standing behind it. They have sent me stuff for free etc.
If customer service is entirely quantified by access... I'd say there is surely a great deal of room for improvment at VSA.
If however it is based upon what takes place upon contact with VSA, I'd have to admit still some room for improvement is needed. Efforts to contact them I have made go without resolution unless contact is positively made. At that point, they have been quite satisfactory. Such is my experience.
I've no crystal ball, but when businesses go strickly via the net, forcing the store fronts to withdraw as viable outlets for that product line due to the profit being cut severely by such a move, the 'face' of the company becomes veiled or hidden completely. Add to that now but a meager accessibility from those buying the goods, it does not bode well for the customer base... past, present or future.
The only reason I can see for taking such a path is to shoot for volume. I'd say some other cost cutting measures are involved, but I've no idea about the financial arrangements between VSA and the dealerships.
Customer service usually finds itself lacking woefully too. Customer service is paramount in web only based operations I would think. A solid pipeline for the customer has to be in place beforehand. After the fact is a bit telling of a move not completely well thought out.
All may be well yet. Maybe. if Albert, or anyone in this "cottage industry at it's finest....???" really wants to make money and increase it's market share, they need add their hads to financing. that's what made Sears, "SEARS". It sure wasn't their catalog... though it helped.
Dramatic moves in business stem from real or percieved as real, dramatic issues. Whatever the case actually is, obtaining an 'estranged' customer base is no positive benefit.
How good is a 10 year warranty if there is no one available to attend to service or support issues when they arise?
Keep trying to call. I've had success getting through in the mid to late afternoon (EST).... LEAST THEY COULD DO IS GET A 800 NUMBER.... and return calls. No one leaves a message asking for help or info just to waste time. I'd bet things will get better soon enough... or they'll go through some major restructureing.
Regarding VS service, I dealt with them on some service issues in Nov. and Dec. of last year and had absolutely no problems dealing with them. They were easy to reach via phone and fixed the non-warrenty repair as what I thought was a very resonable cost. Perhaps they lost some staffing in the last few months. The above comments posted by Blindjim and Ozzy do not reflect my experience dealing with VS.
I have good luck contacting them between the hours of 9:30 to 10:00 AM PST.I don't believe they are as busy in the early morning,give it a try.I've called back several times until someone answers,Albert gets inundated with calls all day long,but when contact is made they always have been most helpful.
You see, I have a problem with one of the internal threads on the upper Module. None of the threaded spikes will screw into it. I just tried calling them again and I did talk to a guy named Joe, so someone is answering the phone at least now.
Joe told me to go to Hardware store for a tap.
I asked why known one has called me back and he said they didnt have an answer for me. Yikes ! This sounds like Melos Audio again. I wish I knew this before I bought these speakers.
Tvad I have not heard of the sorbothane which I assume acts an isolation accomplishing product. What difference do you notice and where do you get it, and what VS speakers has it improved, VR4's? Also do you roll it into a ball and put it where the spikes were or what? Thanks Joe
Joiseyguy I've had success dealing with VSA, myself. I believe I did say as much... once contact was made. in fact in refference to ozzy's current issue with the threaded gromet in the base of the top module, one of my issues surrounding my JR's was similar. Though, nowhere near as severe as OZZY's issue. Mine was with a 'plinth'. No color matching problems there.
The previous owner may have tried moving them about after spiking them, I can't say for sure, but one of the bass modules self same 'threaded insert' twisted within the plinth enough to de-stablize the speaker itself.
Naturally I called in to obtain a replacement plinth. Simple. Defective material or workmanship most likely. Could happen to any speaker i suppose.
The initial resolution was for me to do a likewise "OZZY" repair by obtaining some materials from the hardware store too... removal and reinsertion with more adhesives.
Sorry, but no. Not gonna become a support tech for VSA, or anyone else for that matter. Not when the problem can be fixed as new by just providing a new OEM part (s). Perhaps it's a minor thing in all... but to me, having been BOTH a service tech and customer support manager previously, I've never attempted to enlist the aid of the owner to fix a mechanical or electrical problem while a unit is under warranty. Ever. It's simply not done. Well, I never did even think of it.
To VSA's good, I was sent a brandy new pair of plinths not long there afterwards, as I had no need for rush service and they didn't have any on hand right then either. soon as they had them, they shipped mine to me.
On other albeit minor items, the 'caps' for the locking nuts came off when I was tightening them by hand. Just popped free of the metal nut to which they were attached without undue pressure, IMO. Two of them. Sure. A minor deal. Still, an irritating affair which does in part point to the use of less than quality pieces being used in the construction... or the lack of a decent QA program.
Past those minor irritants, for quite some time I was having major issues with being able to properly set up the speakers. For about a year or so I called, emailed, and ultimately spoke with albert at length about the problem. he assured me nothing could be 'cross wired' in the upper module. I felt a tweeter was mis firing or out of phase, or something... or I was simply nuts. Albert did try to obtain for me some local service for them but ultimately he was dissatisfied with the level of the local service agency apparently and did not follow up on it with me.
Albert to his credit did tell me he would give me an RA so i could return them for service, but servicing them would likely be at least a month, perhaps more once they recieved them.
To make a long story more monotonous, a couple months ago I could no longer handle the intermittently errant sounding units and obtained an R.A.#.
I fashioned the box to secure both top mods and sent them to VSA for inspection and/or repair (s) a few days later. they got them in the day prior to thanksgiving.
Eventually they found one front tweeter to be bad. were simply going to replace it and send them back. hearing that resolution, I asked they replace it's twin as well so there would be some degree of uniformity with the changes being made. I also said I would pay for the second tweeter as only one was bad. i was told to call back. I did. Several times till I got through. this was mid Decenber.
I got through just before Xmas. they were not yet repaired and had now been there a month. OK. Fine. time was not the issue. Communication was, however.
At some point i was told ALL four tweeters were being replaced. Well, OK! Super. i dreaded the breakingg in period but believing all will be well soon, I had no problem there.
If it seems I'm taking VSA to task, think again. these are jus the main facts. As best I can relate them. Certainly I'm pleased with the outcome, as all is well now and 40% of the drivers have been replaced, according to VSA.
Standard service related follow upQuierries for quality assurance updates usually ask by degrees, just how satisfied are you with the level of the service you recieved?
Very? Somewhat? Not at all? Comnpletely disjointed by thw whole affair?
Right? Well there's the rub. I simply can not in complete honesty say I am 100% satisfied i was provided exemplary service on the whole.
I will also, in an effort to gain any reader of this a proper perspective here, say I am fairly critical of these aspects having been on both sides of this coin myself in past jobs.
I do in fact think VSA is doing it's best currently to accomodate it's buying public on every level. I just propose that their best can and should be better than its current state of affairs.
it's like this... you buy a new whatever... something goes wrong not long after and you call for service... can't get through... and then call repededly. You leave messages which are not replied to. Then finally you get through and their first solution is for you to fix it yourself.
Those are not the words I really ant to hear, personally.
That should NEVER be a 'first response' solution. it should a "last resort". Regardless. it is just not professional nor does it bolster my confidence in that company.
I also get 'it' that we are buying equipement from companies run by builders, designers, engineers, and geniuses in some cases, by and large. not businessmen.
that's as should be. to a point. A true major leaguer will provide more than product. true quality of any product, IMO, lies not in simple performance or grandiose assurances. real quality is the whole of the experience. it's the whole ball of wax for any serious buyer. performance, fit and finish, assurances, support, accessibility and availability. find any 'one' of those facets lacking and it is tainted. Find another, and its' fabric begins to unravel as it is seen for what it is.
it's also a simple matter to remedy. some focus, some money, some comittment, and some time is all that's necessary. I'm optimistic VSA will do the right thing by and for, it's customer base... not just by and for some press.
I hope so. I've not ruled them out for my next speaker upgrade yet... but if you think getting in touch with VSA is a bother... call B&W, and see how far you get. Hoo boy!
VS service standard? Took me more than 3 mths to get my replacement woofer drivers. How is that for service? Confidence abt future upgrade? pretty low unless I absolute low the product and I feel that I cant get a better speaker to be liking elsewhere
Tvad ...I agree. Though I can't help but think Mr. V is aware of the goings on with his service & Q.A. departments. I feel it's a people thing at VSA. A need for 'more' or more 'qualified' is simply evident.
VSA product performance is fine, but as I said and others pointed at as well, there's more to products than performace to cost ratios. Surely some reassessment (s) are needed, or needed to be put in force.
I've got about 100 hours on the speakers. So far the speakers sound like the "Cream". Even though I have them out of phase,face to face with many blankets on top of them, I can tell they are sounding better. I can hear the bass is going to be quite tuneful and the dynamics and treble sound like they will have the smack and shimmer I so like. If only the cutomer service wasn't so "Crappy"
Right out of the box, even though I had the speakers face-to-face, out of phase, and covered with bear skins, I could tell they were something special.
Gammajo, LOL. Erratic! Perhaps for those not involved, but if you happened to have spent good money and don't get service when you need it then I think you would agree that it's crappy!
I know some of VSA's speakers have a good reputation for performance, but I have been mildly amused by the manner in which VSA has terminated its dealer network, jacked up the prices astronomically, then appointed a network 'dealer' who gives a discount off the new price. I suspect VSA's business model has little to due with long term stability and success based on repeat business with satisfied customers and more to do with high profits.
I think though, in all seriousness, VSA product performance is not the issue. rather how issues are handled by VSA currently. getting a bigger piece of market shre by providing exceptionally performing and hence wildly popular pieces, has it's responsibilities.
Newbee Ditto. it is funny to see two prices at the same time. That's a mighty slim way to justify the 'sale' price, and even slimmer way to support the MSRPs value. Funnier still is now, anyone buying and later selling their units will surely use the over inflated MSRP (which no one pays) to support it's worth.
...funny, I don't feel as grungy as Tvad about my speakers. Maybe Tvad DID pay MSRP!
As an alternative to the spikes between bass module and m/t I highly recommend "Big Fat Black Dots" from Herbie's Audio Lab. I'm using four per speaker on my VR-4jr's with good results, primarily improved imaging and less grunge. http://herbiesaudiolab.home.att.net/bigfat.htm Steve Herblein (a.k.a. Herbie) is great to deal with. I also use his tube dampers and cd grungebuster (great bang for the buck tweak).
By the way, since I have'nt yet set the speakers up for actual audtion(Maybe this Sunday) looking at the supplied spike floor feet they look very basic. Has anyone updated the feet to something more substantial? What size is the thread size of the spiked feet?
The nomenclature of the thread size is at the website... or was... the funny part of it is Albert says you can go to the hardware store to get any or all of the fasteners, screws etc. Then I happend upon the thread sizes of the spikes, either in the manual or online at the wegsite, and it's a European 'metric' thread diameter and count per cm. Wonder what hardware store Albert uses?
but oh, yes, larger spikes do help a lot. Mine are twice if not more the mass of stock ones.
BTW on the Big FAT Dots? A Friend of mine uses them too, though he said the 'change' didn't happen till he had five in there. Like an X I guess.
If it is the same as the jr, the spike thread is an M8. I looked for a while for something more substantial (read: less pot metal) to no avail. If I was more ambitious, I would probably just replace the threaded inserts with a size that would accept a higher quality spike.
I would like to put in a word of clarification about Albert. I am currently reviewing the VR SR4 MkII. I have tried to contain my comments only to technical helps so as not to cause any issue of non-disclosure. I have made no comments on my personal feelings about the speakers.
I spoke with Albert today about the review and while I had him on the phone told him of the difficulties audiophiles are having with customer relations. Albert is no longer in control of those aspects of the company. He is now acting as the design guru and no longer controls the company's tech personel who would address phone system problems, etc. They only became aware of this issue about 1 week ago, but even as a reviewer I have had difficulties getting through. It is NOT for lack of concern on Albert's part. It seems as though the company is going through some growing pains. I have no interest in debating on the issue of the quality of Von Schweikert customer relations or support; I'm merely relaying Albert's clarification that he's not ignoring customers! He said that they receive 2-3 calls per minute now. When he had a smaller shop he'd take calls personally at a rate of 2-3 per day; since the infusion of investment capital to pump it up to a $100m company he's now in an entirely different capacity with the company he started. He is spending his time on design, not operations. So, people should not call expecting that Albert will be available to consult them. In talking with him, I sensed he laments that he cannot do that anymore. He seems to get a real joy in answering questions and solving problems in audio. I hope this helps shed some light on the issue.
...or perhaps an "easy out" tap bit might remove the grommet and another, a wee bit larger can then be inserted as a replacement. I've used the "easy-out" to remove busted bolts and screws where you couldn't lock onto them with anything like pliers or vise grips.
Finding out if the outside of the insert is threaded or not, and how they are first set into the module will be helpful I'm sure.
Tvad, Blibdjim, Thank you for the help. Douglas, Thanks also for the info. The thing I dont understand is , If they get so many calls a minute, why don't they answer the phone? Do they just count the rings? Anyway, dont shoot the messanger, so sorry. If Albert is still finanically involved he should still be highly concerned. You still cant seperate the Company from the Customer Service.
Understandably then, it would naturally follow to ask, "Who is in charge of the public relationns and customer service, and what are their plans to improve it?" Wouldn't it be appropriate to assume, if higher Fi is contracing the sales rights for the product (s), albert is left solely to the creative facet, then is there still another hand in the pot? one being contracted to handle strickly support? the latter makes no sense.... but if it is not the Creator or 'dealer' who then would or should that fall to?
...fitting in the 'when' along with that previously posed, 'where' inquiry, would also be most welcome news. Regarding our viewing of your report, of course.
Being satisfied with the current "hit & miss" approach with customer service relations, is like cutting one's nose off to spite one's face. Doubtless any good can come of it as it stands. Moreover, it is quite the myopic begining of a turn over, or 'turn around' to either increased revenues or higher levels of efficiency.
Lastly, that $100M figure... where'd that come from? I'm hard pressed to accept a company which can generate a per anum, hundred million U.S. dollars does not have the fiscal wherewithall to provide for adequate consumer services prior to, during, or after some change of business philosophy.
Wholesale changes for retail benefit. Someone overlooked amending 'infrastructure' apparently. it smacks of a less than well thought out plan that can prove quite a bumpy transition. perhaps for everyone, but certainly for the consumer.
I think Albert shares the frustrations expressed here. I don't have insight at this point into all the dynamics behind the scenes at the company. Albert himself mentioned the $100m figure. My review is not scheduled yet, but will appear on Dagogo.com
If you could think to obtain some clarity as to the income sources, ie., patents, sales, consultant fees, etc. THAT would be very enlightening. Contrasting those given figures to other 'leading' loudspeaker manufacturers, even more so.
Blindjim, those are intriguing questions. I don't feel I have a right to probe the company regarding issues unrelated to the review component. I think that the manufacturer would consider it a violation of the tacit agreement to focus on the product. A manufacturer may make a comment on their operations, but that is not necessarily an invitation to scrutinize their operations. As regards the publication of the review, there are so many variables in the process that it becomes impossible to give an accurate date. I'm certain it will be longer than a few weeks.
Douglas_schroeder thanks. You are both forthcoming and perceptive.
I asked those questions primarily because I felt ambiguous or grandiose statements about company revenues can be and are misleading. if taken superficially, without some measure of depth, the numbers are simply self-effacing and tenuous. Not being a 'public' company, and with no visible ledger for factual determination, numbers such as those hold near no value without being reproved.
Perhaps a zero was misplaced. Perhaps two. My consternation with unsupported allegations such as those, in light of the current stress being felt by both VSA and it's consumer base, don't truly support each other. Nor would they support the need for such wide and sweeping changes as seems the current "online only" retail scheme.
Confidence, unlike profits, is immeasureable. I see more at stake here for VSA than streamlining for efficiency and profit margins.
I, for one, enjoy the product performance VSA engenders to items it offers. Until recently both the quality level and price to performance ratio have been a true winner in several spots across the line ups array. Recent escalation of product pricing and de-escalation of tangible consumer services seem at odds. Add to that the removal of hands or ears on access to the buying public and the resultant mix is a very bold move if production capacity is stilll true to form and one which is less inspirational in total.
I truly wish VSA a very long and prosperous turn around as albert is surely a resource for true genius and implementation of design architecture in loudspeaker evolution. Add to that the very nature of competition which promotes for the buyer a better set of choices and it would be a very sad day to see such a star extinguished by itÂ’s own hand or some other perceptual lack.
The manual says to give them at least 300 hours before evaluating the sound quality.
But, so far...
The bass is getting more defined , but the soundstage still could be better. However, I am still using the full output from rear level mid/tweeter for breakin. I have been playing around with speaker placement. I have them placed currently at 27" from the back wall to the back of the speaker cabinet and 38" from the sidewalls to the side of the speaker cabinet. I do not have them toed in at all.
I also have purchased the Brass and Granite speaker outriggers. The spike level adjustment is great and they make the Speakers look very cool. Great product!
In my opinion, you will need to get the speakers much farther from the front wall for the bass to sound right. These are big speakers and they need some space. 27" is hardly enough for even a mini-monitor.
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