Over the good part of this past year I’ve been beta testing a new tweak, the name of which is "Total Contact." Its a hi-bred graphene contact enhancer that is different from all other contact enhancers that have come and gone for one reason or another. I’m not new to these contact enhancers, having had quite a bit of experience with a product developed by the late Brian Kyle and his "Quick Silver" contact enhancer. The "Total Contact" is different ... a LOT different.
"Total Contact" is graphene based and is not a vibration control. It eliminates micro-arching between two contacts. Micro-arching, much like Micro-vibration smears the sound in our stereo systems. Its the type of distortion that we don’t know is there .... until we eliminate it. There is no break-in as we know it. The sound is improved right off the bat, but what you hear is only a smidgen of what’s to come.
I tested three generations of "TC," each of which was an improvement over the previous incarnation. The final mix was cryogenitically treated and made for a more effective, much smoother application. It comes in a large hypodermic needle type plunger containing 1.5 ml of product and includes a instructional DVD and an application brush.
The application should be applied with a very thin coat to all of your electrical connections .... from your cartridge pins to your power cords. I did my entire system, including the ends of my fuses.
Upon initial application, you will notice an improvement in clarity, correctness of tonal balance and a more overall organic sound. But ... that is just scratching the surface of what this magic paste does. As it cures, the improvements become more apparent. Much more!
There are two real break-through events that happen almost to the day with "Total Contact," one at four weeks and another at eight weeks . At four weeks, you’ll get a real jump in clarity and overall improvement. That’s only a taste though of what’s to come at eight weeks. At eight weeks your system’s focus will make a jump in SQ that is so real - its surreal.
After 40 years in the hobby, and a total tweak nut, I have never heard anything that does what this graphene paste does. The see-through clarity at eight weeks becomes simply amazing. The "paste" eventually cures into a kind of polymer plastic and it seems that the sound improves with each listening session. So, its important that you leave your contacts alone for the duration. If you’re the type of person that continually switches wires in and out, you’ll have to re paste until enough time has elapsed to get "the cure."
The only problem I had was with the first batch and that had to do with shorting out a tube pin in the line stage. Use the "TC" very sparingly on tube pins, if at all. I only had problems with the line stage tube pins. The Amp, CD Player and Phono Stage has had no tube pin problems at all.
Tim Mrock, one of our fellow A’goners, is the developer of the product. Its taken Tim 15 years and several patents to get it right. Tim has "pasted" every electrical contact he can find in his audio system, all of the switches in his circuit breaker box, every contact in his car ... and has used it in commercial applications such as hospital circuit breakers, surgical lights ... and other places where efficiency and long life of electrical components are deemed important.
This product is highly recommended to anyone who truly wants to get the most out of his/her audio systems. There’s enough product in each tube to do at least two audio systems as it just takes a very thin coat on each application to be effective. The last tube was enough to do my system twice and then a friend’s system this past weekend.
Frank
PS: There were a couple of other A’goner beta testers of this product as well. Hopefully, they will chime in here with their experiences for comparison. I "pasted" both of Steve Fleschler’s systems a few days ago, perhaps he will comment on his results too. We forgot to paste Steve’s power cords though, so there’s a lot more to be had from Steve’s two fantastic systems.
1. Tim is not running a restaurant. Again, what is between Tim and Ozzy is between Tim and Ozzy.
2. Shelf life: Its working for me.
3. First, Tim's customer service is first rate. Take the time to read the responses regarding Tim's service in this thread. The fact that Ozzy has his nose out of joint has no reflection on Tim's service.
4. Yeppers, I'm an old guy all right. You're correct, Austrian economics HAS been under attack for just about a hundred years in this country. Who's doing the attacking though? Marxists? Progressives? Those who believe in massive debt and fiat money? Isn't a 21 trillion dollar debt and a trillion dollar budget shortage enough for you guys?
5. Obviously clear, Jay ... if you would take the time to read the thread from the beginning, you'd find that a lot of your questions have already been answered.
6. Return policy "side stepped?" Again, read the thread from its inception.
Now then, is there anything else standing in the way of your purchase?
1. What’s between Tim and Ozzy is exactly that ... between Tim and Ozzy. Perhaps you and Ozzy need to learn that sometimes "silence" IS the answer.
2. Shelf life: So far, the first tube is still viable after a year ... and it hasn’t been placed in the freezer.
3. Start up costs: Sounds as though you’ve been into Tim’s books, or at least are friends with his accountant.
4. Basic economics: Yes, I’m familiar with "basic economics," especially Austrian economics as espoused by the likes of Mises, Hayek and Friedman. You?
5. Positive reviews: You say that you are only familiar with Ozzy’s and my preferences and systems. I’d say that you need to get out more.
6. Does it work? Have you been reading the results as they come into this thread? Have you been reading my reviews?
Now that your questions have been answered, and hopefully all of your fears assuaged, is there anything else holding you back from enjoying the product today?
Frank
1. So if you're at a restaurant, and you tell the waiter the food is cold, it's fine for him to walk away from you and stay silent? This is the same customer service Tim is providing. While ozzy may have posted it, Tim is the one that admitted to his lack of response.
2. That is the production formula? If not, it doesn't apply.
3. I have enough business experience to know the costs. I have no idea how much Tim spent. Hopefully his business sense is greater than his current customer service.
4. I know you're older, but Austrian economics have been the butt end of jokes for over half a century.
5. I'm happily working, not retired, and not spending much of my time in the forums.
6. And people love Blose. The negative review and lack of return policy has been completely side stepped.
R&D costs are tax deductible. It’s silly for anyone selling high end audio tweaks to expect to recover R&D costs if those costs are very high. That would be analogous to Lockheed Martin backcharging the Government for R&D costs. Ditto the costs of obtaining a patent. Patents are good for hanging on the wall of your bathroom. If R&D costs are very high and/or R&D takes a long time or the product requires many versions whose fault is that? As an old philosopher once said, if you want to make a small fortune in high end audio start off with a large fortune. He also said, if you want your product to be successful you have to get used to the idea of the giving it away. 🤠
1. What’s between Tim and Ozzy is exactly that ... between Tim and Ozzy. Perhaps you and Ozzy need to learn that sometimes "silence" IS the answer.
2. Shelf life: So far, the first tube is still viable after a year ... and it hasn’t been placed in the freezer.
3. Start up costs: Sounds as though you’ve been into Tim’s books, or at least are friends with his accountant.
4. Basic economics: Yes, I’m familiar with "basic economics," especially Austrian economics as espoused by the likes of Mises, Hayek and Friedman. You?
5. Positive reviews: You say that you are only familiar with Ozzy’s and my preferences and systems. I’d say that you need to get out more.
6. Does it work? Have you been reading the results as they come into this thread? Have you been reading my reviews?
Now that your questions have been answered, and hopefully all of your fears assuaged, is there anything else holding you back from enjoying the product today?
It would not be practical and profitable for Tim to sell such a small quantity and recoup the r&d that went into this product and then make a profit as Frank stated. Besides the product, the package includes the syringe, applicator brush, 6 well palette, gloves and instructions. Remember Tim is one person and not a large corporation. The price seems a bit steep but the results are worth it. I’ve spent a lot more on other tweaks over the years with minimal results.
Most of the included items should cost very little in bulk, or are unneeded for a sample.
People should have cheap gloves, or can buy some for little cost. The instructions can be placed online. I read about a DVD. Really!?!??!? Is this the 90s? This can be put on YouTube or website in HD. The well palette can easily be replaced by the customer with some small plastic container top. The applicator brush, it sounds like a Q-tip can be used. That just leaves the syringe or some container for the TC.
Like I already said, if it's as good as advertised, people will buy the full size, and that's where the major profit is.
Tim Mrock has not "disappeared." He reads every post in this thread.
There are plenty of contacts in an audio system to paste with TC to justify the 1.5 ml size ... especially if you do your circuit breakers.
Unknown shelf life? If you were to read the thread in its entirety, you’d discover that I still have some connections pasted with the first beta TC a year later. I still have a little left in the syringe, and its still viable.
In addition, it wouldn’t be cost effective to offer a smaller amount. After all, the cost of startup has to be recouped. Its business, pure and simple.
If the entry price is too much risk for you, or anyone else, I’d suggest that you go in with a friend and do both systems. This way, you are getting the product for "half price," right?
Read the positive reviews coming into this thread now. Considering the reviews, why do you still have reservations about "if its as good as advertised?" It is as good as advertised ... and even better.
So now, is there anything else holding you back from buying a tube of TC to enhance your audio system? If so ... what is it? Do you have more questions? If so, I’d be happy to answer them to the best of my ability. If I can't answer them, Tim surely can.
Frank
• If Tim has not disappeared, then how has the ozzy issue not been resolved? You've tried to do damage control, while Tim has done nothing. This is like trying to sweep the dirt under the carpet. It takes a big man to step up and admit his mistake/s. In this case, his lack of response to emails, and not providing quality customer service.
• The shelf life... You are referring to a beta product. A new formula means potentially different results. You've already mentioned the different audio results, in your experience. According to fleschler, "Tim mentioned that it lasts longer in a sealed or vacuum packed baggie, even longer in the freezer (six months or more was quoted)." 6 months is not a long time, IMO.
• It "wouldn’t be cost effective to offer a smaller amount. After all, the cost of startup has to be recouped. Its business, pure and simple." Really? The startup costs and materials should be negligible, if properly handled. So that just means recouping R&D costs, to make a profit.
I didn't say that halving the quantity meant halving the cost. Did you take basic economics? Look at the theory of supply and demand. IF you increase demand, the price per ml can increase, and the quantity sold increased. This means greater profit. As Geoff likes to say, Hel-loo!
• As to positive reviews, I'm only familiar with ozzy's and your systems and preferences. I may not completely agree with both of your opinions, but I know enough to read between the lines. That leaves the product at 50% for me.
The cost may not be that much if it works, but if it doesn't, it's a lot for a product with no return policy. This is why I recommended making it more of a no brainer to try.
One of of the reasons I decided to do all this upgrading in the last couple of years was because hearing loss runs in the family. So I was wanting get better clarity from my hi-fi before I had any serious hearing loss. Therefore, I was and am serious about these upgrades and I have rejected a few tweaks/equipment along the way.
As stated before, this product has taken all the previous upgrades I have done to my system and clarified them further without any drawbacks. It simply helps equipment, wires etc... get out way and brings out soul of the music.
All along the way I have judged how my hi-fi plays music vs live music. The TC has helped my hi-fi get closer to this ideal. The bottom line is I am listening to more and more music and it sounds great to me. Thanks for getting this product out there
I didn't think you were that old, maybe 78 :-). Honestly I would have guessed late 60s from your responses. I'm glad you can still hear these things at your age. I'm only 60 and have early stages of tinnitus so I doubt I be able to make out anything by the time I'm your age.
I know the feeling. Its the mind, Ron ... The body says no, but the mind still thinks the body is that of a 20 year old.
I actually miss my work. I loved what I did for a living, but I'll be hitting my 80th year this coming summer. So, other things will have to take the place of the working world for now.
One good thing that I'm very grateful for is the hearing is still intact. God, if that goes, then what?
Someone asked George Burns: "Who wants to live to be a hundred anyway, George?" George answered ... "A guy who's 99." :-)
It would not be practical and profitable for Tim to sell such a small quantity and recoup the r&d that went into this product and then make a profit as Frank stated. Besides the product, the package includes the syringe, applicator brush, 6 well palette, gloves and instructions. Remember Tim is one person and not a large corporation. The price seems a bit steep but the results are worth it. I’ve spent a lot more on other tweaks over the years with minimal results.
As Frank also stated, try sharing the product with friends to reduce your cost. If anyone wishes to try a sample of mine, I would gladly come to their house and apply it myself. I live in Staten Island so anyone interested please send me a PM.
Blind listening tests under controlled conditions may not be perfect, but they are infinitely superior to sighted ones if all you are concerned with is sound quality.
I remember vividly how after 'upgrading' my amplifier to one costing 4 times as much I thought I'd check the old one before putting it up for sale.
After switching back and forth a few times the really strange result left me baffled - they sounded remarkably alike! How could this be? Reviews had waxed lyrical about how wonderfully luxurious the new one sounded. Even now, years later I have trouble accepting what I heard. Buying without listening really would be the bane of the audiophile's life if there weren't others out there willing to do the same.
Similar things often happen when comparing different (re)masterings of favourite albums. Once you have level matched them they often sound remarkably similar. Apart from Dylan's Street Legal, its difficult to think of a clear improvement when its comes to remastering.
It was also odd that when my amp superseded by a new model a few years later the replacement was deemed a clear improvement in the press.
All these 'improvements' year after year.... Perhaps its high time we all got into the tweaking business. Look here, I've got the perfect contact cleaner...it'll transform your system beyond belief. For a mere $50 per 330 ml bottle! I know it looks like a bottle of tap water but trust me....
Maybe @oregonpapa can recommend him to cut the quantity in half, along with a reduction in price. The unknown & limited shelf life, plus quantity to treat multiple systems, may be off-putting for a product without long term testing. A small sample container, with enough to treat 1-3 products for $10-30, would make a nice addition. 1 per customer. If it’s as good as advertised, customers would buy the full size."
Jay ...
Tim Mrock has not "disappeared." He reads every post in this thread.
There are plenty of contacts in an audio system to paste with TC to justify the 1.5 ml size ... especially if you do your circuit breakers.
Unknown shelf life? If you were to read the thread in its entirety, you’d discover that I still have some connections pasted with the first beta TC a year later. I still have a little left in the syringe, and its still viable.
In addition, it wouldn’t be cost effective to offer a smaller amount. After all, the cost of startup has to be recouped. Its business, pure and simple.
If the entry price is too much risk for you, or anyone else, I’d suggest that you go in with a friend and do both systems. This way, you are getting the product for "half price," right?
Read the positive reviews coming into this thread now. Considering the reviews, why do you still have reservations about "if its as good as advertised?" It is as good as advertised ... and even better.
So now, is there anything else holding you back from buying a tube of TC to enhance your audio system? If so ... what is it? Do you have more questions? If so, I’d be happy to answer them to the best of my ability. If I can't answer them, Tim surely can.
P.P.S. It was really difficult to use only two sets of HFTs to sound correct. Often, the bass would be too lean or treble to bright depending on my placement. Following the preferred setup did not work until I installed the speaker kits, then chose the preferred set up for the first two HFT sets.
P.S. The first two sets of HFTs were insufficient for me to remove rear panel diffusers and absorbing panels. After I installed two speaker kit HFTs I removed all room treatments except for Hallographs.
ronrags I tried the HFTs only without my Hallographs and did not like the result either. While the sound was enhanced, detailed and open, it sounded antiseptic, sterile. Obviously my room has a lot to do with that. When I put back the rear Hallographs alone, the beauty of sound and immersion into a large sound field was brought back.
Note that I used TC prior to installing HFTs and removing all my room treatment. My wife felt that the room didn't sound sufficiently open when compared to the best audio systems she heard at the LA Audio show 2018. I decided to try the Atmosphere XL4. I was hooked. It delivers so much more than an FEQ, in numbers of signals, signal strength and adjustability.
I highly recommend TC which will do much of what HFTs. It does so many positive things to the sound from an electronic stance. like the blue fuse. I still had slap echo problems (moderately severe) without the HFTs which is a non-electronic, room problem. Now with the Atmosphere XL4, there is no slap echo present when clapping my hands while music is playing. Amazing.
Maybe @oregonpapa can recommend him to cut the quantity in half, along with a reduction in price. The unknown & limited shelf life, plus quantity to treat multiple systems, may be off-putting for a product without long term testing. A small sample container, with enough to treat 1-3 products for $10-30, would make a nice addition. 1 per customer. If it's as good as advertised, customers would buy the full size.
I considered buying the speaker HFTs to work with my FEQ, but decided to purchase TC instead. I'm not sure if my system would benefit from adding the HFTs at this point. I tried the original HFTs on the walls with no improvement to my system and I do not wish to upgrade the FEQ to the XL4. Any thoughts?
hifiman5 @geoffkait +1 Blind testing often produces so much anxiety in the listener that it interferes with their normal perceptions of their system’s sound.
>>>>I actually don’t think so, I mean, unless there was a lot riding on it. For example, The Amazing Randi’s Million Dollar Challenge definitely produced a lot of stress in the challenger. The protocols themselves can produce stress, you know, what system is used for the test and where located, how many people are present, how the test is administered, which CDs can be used for the test, how many trials are required, things of that nature. It’s enough to freak out any mild mannered audiophile. 😩 No wonder nobody ever won the million bucks. Casual blind tests at home, on the other hand, are probably not too stressful. Nevertheless, as I already pointed out, negative results don’t prove anything.
I jumped the gun on the 8 week improvement when I purchased the SR Atmosphere XL4 to go with my 2 HFT sets and 2 Speaker HFT sets. It was like TC on steroids.
However, my wife noticed congestion/hashy sound on choral parts on LPs recorded in the 50’s and early 60’s (all four Aida Triumphal Scene LPs-recording tape headroom saturation problem). Jazz and instrumentals sounded fine but with the slightest blur on some (using a custom made tube phono stage with perfectly impedance mated SUT). I thought there could be worn stylus problem but my best LPs sounded fabulous. I did an experiment.
I decided to plug in my old EAR 324 phono stage. It was difficult to get the right impedance/gain match (which is why I switched five years ago) getting too much bass, insufficiently open sound or too little bass and open sound (150 or 400 ohms, cartridge is best at 220 ohms).. Then I decided to treat the EAR 324s 2 pairs of RCA ICs and the A/C power cord with TC. Wow, I was able to dial in a setting I liked. The choruses became 50% clearer (wife approved as listenable) and a very tube-like tonal quality ensued. As noted, bass becomes more prominent. I was able to use a higher impedance match for my cartridge (Benz Ruby 3). My wife approved of me spending $300 for TC (as well as the XL4 after she heard what it did and the removal of all the wall/window treatments for the HFTs). She spent some time listening to LPs (luckily the XL4 has an Amplify room setting so that she can enjoy heavy metal and Robin Trower recordings).
I just want to say that TC improves everything I pasted so far. Unfortunately for me, my wife will be spending more time listening to 80s rock LPs in my music room. On a personal note, my wife had about 300 LPs when we met 21 years ago which she kept in pristine condition. I’m a lucky man.
TC is quite remarkable. I’ve done tons of tweaks over the years, but nothing does it like TC. I know there are those posting here who think that $299.99 is too much to pay for a tweak, but based upon what TC does, I honestly think it saves money. Why? Because in order to gain this much of an improvement in SQ, one would have to upgrade equipment ... and that costs thousands. In the meantime, I’ll just keep pasting away, thank you. :-)
"I did not expect to what extent that the noise floor and digital glare was reduced."
RC ... I can hardly wait until you guys reach the 4 and 8 week time periods. It becomes what you said above --- times 10 at least.
Most of the initial feedback has been very similar to mine. I had a vague idea of of what the improvements might be in relation to noise reduction but I did not expect to what extent that the noise floor and digital glare was reduced.
I will try to put it into perspective. As I have mentioned in prior posts, I just completed several interconnect, powered chord, power conditioning, and still point upgrades over a two year period. Each time I was able to do in home evaluation in each of my systems. I would not have purchased any of these items for fanthom improvements because I trust my own ears and spend wisely. Thus, this is the most risk I have taken in any Hi-Fi purchase, and so far one of the most rewarding so far, for the money.
Like any type of test, a controlled blind test is a data point and as such cannot prove or disprove anything. Especially if the results are negative, you know, since negative results can be caused by many things.
There was no reason to have a blind since I was able to hear an immediate change to my system which was not so subtle. As I stated in my first impression, the music was cleaner and clearer. The soundstage was bigger and the music extended forward on all music. I found it difficult to ascertain any differences on some tweaks but not with TC. By far, this product made the most impact of any tweak or cable in my system.
^^^ I haven’t heard any "expectation bias" regarding TC. I have, however, heard a ton of UNexpectation bias though ... all from those who haven’t seen the product, touched the product, heard the product or used the product. :-)
If I heard the same piece of music ten times, then had someone apply TC to my speaker cables, I’m positive I would hear the difference ....and I’m no fried chicken either.
To those who have purchased the product: have you tried any blind testing on the product? Perhaps this could be a test, listen to the same passage of music 10 times. Have someone apply the substance at SOME point and see if you can identify which time it changed, and what the change was? Presumably all the following samples would have this change if it exists. Perhaps applied to the speaker cables? i am not big on blind testing but I definitely am hearing some “expectation bias” in this thread, imo. I find most tweaks to be subtle, but since these responses are described as so immediate and obvious, this method of testing should be very informative.
^^^ I’ve had some connections (speaker cable - bi wired) pasted with the original beta testing version of TC for a year now with no obvious degradation in sound. On the contrary, everything seems to continue to improve. Most of the system is pasted with the version of TC that is presently being sold. It was the final version and is much smoother than the original two versions, each of which was smoother and more refined than that which came before.
Yesterday, I decided to take another chance with the tube pins in the line stage. (ARC REF-3). So far, no issues. The original beta testing product was a bit chunky in that you could see little flecks of graphene in the product. I had a problem with that version and the tube pins. I’m hoping that the smoother final product will eliminate any problems with tube pins. Oddly enough, I did the cartridge pins with the original TC and so far, not one problem at all. No problem on tube pins in other equipment either ... only with the line stage.
As stated before, there is a real jump in SQ at 4 weeks and especially at 8 weeks. It may be system dependent, but both Tim, I, and others have have experienced this phenomenon big time, and at 8 weeks the clarity becomes uncanny with realism. We all know what "see through" quality means in this hobby ... but this is "see through" on steroids.
I am really looking forward to the point where you guys get to experience this. Some of you are getting close to the 4 week period. PLEASE, if you experience what we have experienced with TC when you reach this time point ... post your experiences here. Thanks ...
I treated the speaker cables with TC. I immediately noticed more resolution from all the previous applications. I am able to enjoy the music at lower volume levels without missing a beat. The best part is that when I do turn up the volume, I am less likely to turn it down since the digital glare is deminished so much.
It is if I upgraded my speaker cables. The cables are Audience Conductor SE running from a DNM amp To Audience 1+1 V2+ speakers.
I have yet to treat any interconnects to the Pre amp and Amp and power cables other than my CD player and power contioner and power strip. This Is due to my cautious nature, plus I got down the rabbit hole of listening to music. Oh ya, that’s what we do this for!
So far I have enjoyed every step along the way. Like reported earlier, I went through this as I upgraded power cables, power conditioners, interconnects, speakers and floating my components on Stillpoints over the last 2 years. I did not think that this product would make this kind of difference in resolution and musicality. I am not suggesting that anyone should not upgrade components, speakers, interconnects, power cables etc. I just think that so far that this material makes the most of any upgrade I have made in both of my systems without changing the basic character. I will report again as I treat more of my main system, if I can stop listening to music long enough.
One more note, I did not enter into this lightly, since my more experienced friends/professionals cautioned me, that some of the other contact enhancers previously mentioned in this thread have had varying degree of success and possible degradation problems overtime. This is why I have been so cautious in diving in to my priciest components where it would be more more difficult to remove.
My office system has been completely treated since Sunday and have found the bass deeper and more tuneful. This is coming from a 3” single driver audience The one V2 speaker. The rest of the frequency spectrum is still magnificent. The best thing so far is that I have heard no I’ll effects or back sliding on any of the improvements.
My main system is still not completely treated but will be completed by this weekend. However the bass has displayed the same deepening and tuneful improvements. Notes resonate more fully and are more decernable and thus I work less at completing notes in my mind which helps in longer more enjoyable listening sessions.
Thank you for posting your results. The more connections you apply TC to, the better the results will be. And ... don’t forget to mark your calendar for the four and eight week break-through periods.
I used the TC on my Naim UnitiLite’s power cable and speaker connections to my ProAc Response D Twos. There is a noticeable positive change right away. It seems as though the bass extension is better and mids are punchier. Not a massive change. It kind of reminds me of the change you get when upgrading to a higher level (or two) of power cord and/or speaker cables in a system. In that sense it is worth the $300.00 considering the cost of power and speaker cables.
One concern is that the instructions say that you have to re-apply if you remove the cables. I would estimate that i do this 2-3x per year. The amount of TC provided is more than enough for my needs, but if it doesn’t stay "fresh" for a long period of time that could be an issue.
It’s fascinating that whenever there’s even a hint of of controversy, you’re always right there...stirring the pot...hoping it will boil over? Do you consider yourself some sort of agent of chaos, or something?
>>>I think of myself more as a song and dance man, you know.
Well, its not a perfect world I guess. At this point, I really don't know what to say.
Getting a small amount to do the ends of your fuses would seem a moot point to me, Ozzy. I mean, if you've done your entire system and evaluated the product for three months and only heard a dulling of the sound, I don't suppose you'd hear what pasting the ends of fuses would do for you either.
In the meantime, there has been real progress in my system as new uses for TC are found in our ongoing experiments. TC has brought my system to levels only wished for before. The realism is uncanny.
Yes, I did use the Mad Scientist stuff. I’m not sure which product I used first, but I did remove all of the previous product before using the other one.
When I used Tim's product it was over a 3 month period. I kept telling Tim that I was not impressed and he kept telling me to let it burn in more and he even stated that you (oregonpapa) was thrilled with it.
But, no matter how I could describe the products usefulness, the end result was I was much happier when it was removed.
Prospective buyers should try to obtain a small sample before spending big $$$ on it. IMHO.
It's fascinating that whenever there’s even a hint of of controversy, you’re always right there...stirring the pot...hoping it will boil over? Do you consider yourself some sort of agent of chaos, or something?
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