My birthday is coming up and I will be asking for a *new* TT. Budget is up to $1500, but preferably closer to $1k. I would be comfortable pitching in another few hundred $$$ for a good cartridge if I get a table without one. Was thinking: Rega P3, maybe P6 if I really stretch the budget (that'd be over my $1500 mark)
MoFi StudioDeck Clearaudio Concept (I have a lead on a lightly used one with low hours, bundled with an Artist V2 cart, but might make gift giving awk)
Don’t know enough to suggest a cartridge, but options abound. I use a vintage Grace F9 Ruby with great pleasure.
This is very nice, but the stylus on original Ruby (RS9R) is elliptical. There are better profiles from Grace for F9, also profiles from FR14 (F14) are compatible with F9. Grace own Advanced Luminal Trace profile (RS14AL clear color) or those blue color profiles with "F" on them with LineContact type of the diamond.
Tell that to Michael Fremer, his "belt drive" turntable costs as much as a luxury car....I disagree, there is nothing wrong with a well designed 1500-2000 buck belt driven turntable! I have owned several in this price range and they all sounded great.
You mentioned REGA, I just returned to analogue after a long break .I tested the water with a low budget manual table and was quite surprised for what I GOT for a very modest sum.And then took the big jump (INCURABLE AUDIOPHILIA) one with these new double /triple plinths and the final one with a suspended chassis ... and I am still wondering what justifies the wide price difference between all these choices. An quasi frameless table for 6,000 while a similar idea almost no frame around a rigid cast bar for less than 800.I would be interested to throw some money out of the window on the latter to really compare it with the expensive sister because these two are visibly done along the same design direction (MINIMAL FRAME- NO SPLINT). Even a very special bearing would not seem enough .It is time we take real look at these reviewers claims who justify any price.The best amp I ever heard, the best turntable ever made until the next issue and so on. JUST be careful we should try to listen at different items in a system we familiar with music we love and familiar with before we follow the prophets, GOOD LUCK
You mentioned REGA, I just returned to analogue after a long break .I tested the water with a low budget manual table and was quite surprised for what I GOT for a very modest sum.And then took the big jump (INCURABLE AUDIOPHILIA) one with these new double /triple plinths and the final one with a suspended chassis ... and I am still wondering what justifies the wide price difference between all these choices. An quasi frameless table for 6,000 while a similar idea almost no frame around a rigid cast bar for less than 800.I would be interested to throw some money out of the window on the latter to really compare it with the expensive sister because these two are visibly done along the same design direction (MINIMAL FRAME- NO PLINTH). Even a very special bearing would not seem enough .It is time we take real look at these reviewers claims who justify any price.The best amp I ever heard, the best turntable ever made until the next issue and so on. JUST be careful we should try to listen at different items in a system we familiar with music we love and familiar with before we follow the prophets, GOOD LUCK
Two directions here. Get an old Denon DD table. Spend ~$400. This will give you a taste of DD. And if you sell it later you won't lose hardly a dime. I recommend spending a bit more on the cartridge. The Soundsmith Otello is a steal at $399. Some of the new ATs are very fine cartridges. The second path is the new Schiit Sol. It comes with a cartridge installed. I believe one choice is the ATVM95E. The first upgrade I would make would be to pop on a new Shibata or Microline stylus. Take like 30 seconds. This will let you compare them easily. You also have 15 days to try the Schiit with a small restocking fee if a no go. Let us know what route you take, and your thoughts.
As an owner of the recommended Marantz TT15, I would like to chime in. It is a beautiful table and it does sound good. I got it new a couple of years ago for $1000, which was a steal at the time. That said, I am going to be replacing it with a direct drive. Reasons:
- The belt drive. I hate changing the belt for speeds. Especially on this table. The belt is located near the bottom and can come off. - The motor. It just sits in a hole in the plinth. I get it, isolation. However, when you turn it on, the motor moves. It is just a poor design, IMHO. - The cartridge. As mentioned above, the overhang is significant and I know people with this table that have broken it off more than once. I am SUPER careful and have not had any issues, fortunately. - Also as mentioned above, it does have an additional ground wire and no dustcover. I am not a fan of a giant acrylic box sitting over my tt(for another $200.)
I have a vintage Kenwood KD-500 that I am servicing. It is a great looking table with a nice tonearm, a dustcover and has a Grado gold on it. It is made of a composite that Kenwood designed that looks like marble and is quite heavy. I am going to shoot it out with the Marantz when I am done and if I find it close, the Marantz will be sold.
Chakster, I noticed you never recommend "Grado"; that’s my favorite cartridge, and I’ve tried many.
@orpheus10 That’s not true, maybe you missed my recommendations for Grado, find my grado between Pioneer PC-1000 mkII and Grace LEVEL II BR/MR. This is Joseph Grado Signature XTZ and this is what i have right now on my Denon DA-401 tonearm. This is the best Grado cartridge i ever tried, but i must say i did not try all Grados. Prior to this i’ve been using a lot (and still have them) a $150 Grado DJ200 which is based on cheap Grado Black, those are not for the main system.
Grado Signature XTZ is high-end MI cartridge from the 80’s, i love it! XTZ styli are available from Grado
Thanks for informing me Chackster. I had the Platinum, Sonata, and now the Master; there was a significant move up with each change, I think they're a good buy.
I've come as a long time user of JVC TT's. Namely the famed QL-Y7, QL-Y5, QL-Y55, etc. Great turntables all around. I don't know Techniques product. But I do know a little something about direct drive. I've been using direct drive TT's since the late 60's.
That said - We're talking $1500, or less, including a cartridge. That settles it. The Marantz TT-15S1 kind of stands on it's own. The cartridge is what an $800 cartridge? I mean come on! And I"ve seen this Marantz sell used for less than $800.
Oh, and I own one!
Run, don't walk...buy the Marantz...and come back here to thank those of us who suggested the Marantz. All the best!
Well Tempered Simplex. I would choose it over any turntable mentioned here. Great sound, great looking. Cost me $3.5k to find something that was clearly better.
I've read this post with a smile on my face and decided I really must throw my 2 cents in even though it only serves to reinforce what has been said several times before. Years back I had a Technics 1200 MK 2 (purchased new) which I played with a several mid/high cartridges. The balance of my system was ultra high end so I decided that the analog part needed upgrading. I replaced the MK2 with an Oracle Delphi 5 with an SME 2 arm equipped with a Lyra Argo i cartridge. I was certainly proud of how the Oracle looked vs the Technics. . My mind also told me it sounded much better..well, after spending about 8 grand on my setup it should, right? .....Then a real disaster struck and my entire setup was stolen. After replacing my electronics and speakers with equivalents I had only enough cash to purchase a gently used Technics 1200 MK5 and a new Nagaoka MP200. And ya know what, most of my vinyl collection sounds equally as good and some of the lesser quality pressings even sound a bit better. The used MK5 and the new MP200 cost me $1100. It's not that difficult to live with the Technics pedestrian looks after all.
I hope with Chakster’s, blessing what about the PolyTable? Looks like a solid option from someone that cannot compete in resources but with a trajectory in table design like no other designer or company. http://hifigem.com/polytable.html
Dont buy a direct drive table unless you have at least $ 10,000 for the deck only.
and if you have $10k buy Technics SP10R (just the drive)
then read a little bit about the drive and buy SL1200G with the same motor for $3999 (for compete turntable with tonearm).
still expensive? Look for SL1200GR for $1700 that is not far from "G"
Actually you don't have to spend $10k just for a reference Direct Drive even considering only NEW models.
Denon DP-80 drive is $1500 and it's fantastic for the money, but it's from the 70's, anyway MINT condition units still available. This turntable will put in the dust all those new overpriced belt drive up to $10 000
For around $1,000 right now, The Pro-Ject Classic SB with Wooden Chassis and Ortofon Quintet Red MC Cartridge package from Audio Advisor that includes Pro-Ject’s Push-Button Electronic Speed Control, the Clamp-It $99 Record Clamp, and the Leather-It $59 Upgrade Turntable Mat has got to be the deal of the week. A Rega P3 is always a good choice, but Adding $345 to the base P3, and the other goodies, and you are way over the $1199 ask for the Project. If you want to economize even more, the standard Pro-Ject Classic Turntable with an Ortofon 2M Silver Cartridge (I think it's a 2M Red wound with fewer turns of silver-plated wire, instead of copper) for $899 is likewise a great value.
For those who think I'm a shill for Pro-ject, AA also has Rega P8s for $1999 plus cart. That is a jawdropping price on a spectacular table. I'd also look at the
EAT B# Turntable with the Ortofon 2M Blue package, and the Marantz TT 15S1 Turntable with ClearAudio Virtuoso MM Cartridge ( It's actually a ClearAudio table in Marantz cosmetics)
I just read the description completely, it is a 'rough' translation, but very informative if you re-read it. there is some nice technology in that arm as well. magnetic anti-skate, instant off/on, micrometer tracking adjustment, damped arm ...
the 350mm arm length is 'total' arm length, not effective length.
curiously, the notes reference 'fit CL-P1D' which is a similar JVC deck.
Denon DP-80 is absolutely stunning Direct Drive, i’m so happy that i bought unused sample in mint condition, i’ve been reading audiogon contributors for a long time and finally decided to buy one for my collection, i prefer Denon base just for one tonearm. It’s compact and good looking, but i already have different turntables. That Denon DA-401 tonearm is very nice for high compliance carts.
A Japanese classics, a must have in my opinion. It’s crazy how low is the price for those DP-80 sometimes.
Last week i finally assembled another turntable for a friend, he prepared it for his daughter as a present, very nice. Technics SP-20 in SH10B3 with custom made armboard.
Do you like any of the older stuff like, Thoren, Garrard, Sparta, QRC, Russco. I love the look, Art Deco
Rim drive, belt/rim drive combo.
For a direct drive I like Micro Seiki, they were, wonderful sounding, nice looking, and good tone arms too. I had one stolen... man oh man...lot of time in that thing..
I like Ortofon, and Grado both.
Heavy MM mono carts, Pickering and Shure for 78s is still one of the best..
I ended up with TT81, but I am thinking, for residential use, less costly TT61 is probably equal in performance, even if further developments were made.
Chakster, what have you to say about this auction site?
@elliottbnewcombjr only if you pay with paypal with official invoice from the seller to get your paypal buyer's protection (and full refund if anything wrong or not arrived). Shipping delay is what you have to expect in the near future. Some sellers have no idea how to pack items for international transit and this is why they list on local sites for local sales only.
very good advice regarding potential shipping damage, especially these large heavy plinths, dust covers, tonearms, plastic feet ....
Making a claim, return, problem can be quite difficult, and check with PayPal BEFORE PAYING, you might not be protected (as I wasn't). Check with your Credit Card company, use the card with best protection, extended warranty? damage protection?
As you know I bought large plinth Dual Arm JVC from an experienced seller/shipper with high rating, right after Christmas: Canada to USA. Lots of high quality stuff, long time seller, high rating, lots of shipping experience ...
It arrived 'busted', box severely damaged, plastic feet shattered off, wood plinth damaged 3 locations, plastic dust cover cracked, what a shameful mess.
I paid extra for insurance.
1. UPS
seller bought insurance, so seller must make claim. It went to UPS USA for damage inspection; they damaged it further; they sent it to UPS Canada (different shipper name); they denied the claim:
improperly packaged, single box, used box, not double thickness, 'antique'. They said they do not insure 'antiques' in any case. So, I paid extra for insurance that was not valid in any case.
2. Paypal
did not cover me, because: I sent money to seller, no eBay invoice, it could have been sending money to my friend, not protected.
3. Credit Card saved the day
a. I didn't have to pay credit card company for that item 'for the claim duration'. IOW, put on hold. b. they started a 14 day countdown, computer would automatically put a claim to Paypal for me in 14 days. They said, then Paypal will put a claim to the seller, and if seller did not satisfy me, they would close his paypal account. (big deal, could just open a new one). c. I told seller, 14 day countdown, he now on deadline to resolve/refund me or lose his paypal account. that got his full attention.
4. got full refund, whew!
I told seller, my refund was not connected to his insurance claim, refund me now. seller waited After UPS Canada denial, and after he received the package, he gave me a full refund.
nearly identical dual arm deck, excellent condition, discussed shipping, he assured me: 3 boxes, dust cover with misc in one box; tt in second box; both of those inside a larger box. It arrived in perfect condition, impressive, I highly recommend Vlad as I mentioned in prior post.
@chakster you seem to know about turntables a thing or two, I have an SL-1210mk5, bought it used, and added a DL301II which was kind of complex to align and mount on the Technics headshell (at least for me) and I'm not entirely sure is properly installed, this is something I have to revisit but then I wondered if I should replace or mod the tonearm (which is Technics standard) add a tonearm cable, possibly balanced for my balanced preamp etc.
If you were in my case would you sell what I currently have and get a
new SL1200G? or even a
SL1200GR?The DL301II which is MC, should I get a MM cartridge instead? I am a novice with turntables, I have an entirely digital rig (very good IMO) but I have the itch to start getting vinyl etc (currently have like 15 only and these are not very good) Which would it be a good place to get "good mastered vinyl" Discog? Thanks in advance
If i were you i would buy a better MM cartridge for this old Technics turntable, i would definitely rewire internal tonearm cable and external phono cable. Actually i've done that before with my pair of SL1210 mkII (added kab fluid dampers and isonoe feet, complete rewire with cardas internal and zu mission external wires/cables, but unbalanced). I was very happy with result, the most important is cartridge, the rest of this upgrade is very cheap, but you need superb MM or MI cartridge with advanced stylus profile and impressive sound quality. There are many of them available NOS. Over the years i've been buying all of them.
It is nice to change a turntable too, but this is much more expensive and you can do that later when you will have a perfect cartridge to install on better Technics turntable. If you don't have the real killer cartridge then i don't think you have to start with new turntable.
BUT if you have a budget for SL1200G go ahead, it can be your last turntable for the next 30 years :)
P.S. Discogs is fine to buy records, i prefer original pressings from the 70's as most of my music is from that era. I don't like re-issues.
If you can repair the tonearm rubber gasket (easy with basic handy skills), this is a darn good start to a dual arm direct drive in a wonderful wood plinth (CL-P2) with a special tonearm, effective length 282mm (11-1/8")
It's big, make sure you can fit it. 564mm wide x 506mm deep (22-3/16" x 20")
I bought one like this, didn’t know much, was warned here about the arm, got anxious, cancelled the sale. Found another one in Canada, seller repaired sagging counterweight, it came plinth and dust cover busted, returned, found another in Canada (no JVC arm), it came, I added my two arms.
While I had the busted one, I took the JVC arm apart. Now I know how easy it is to fix that arm, Well worth fixing as it is JVC-Victor’s Long 7082 arm, with VTA On the Fly height adjustment.
Simply take rear counterweight portion of arm apart, replace gasket with rubber washer from Home Depot, back together, done.
You could point out the counterweight sag to this seller, offer around $900., see what happens. add another arm in the back for ... (mine is mono cartridge ready to go), bingo all set.
Hey all, OP here. I appreciate all of your responses and youve given me a lot to think about. I was initially set on a 1210GR after your responses here and elsewhere. With a Hana SL that is closer to an endgame system for me. Unfortunately, price is still too high. However, I have a Concept in my sights with a dealer-installed Artist V2 cartridge for $1300. Seems like a great deal, low hours. Talk me out of it? @panzrwagn that IS a good deal on the pro-ject--any other thoughts on this combo?
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