New Rowland Criterion 2-chassis battery pre

Guido,
IME monolithic op amps can sound great on batteries-- perhaps surpassing tubes-- but if that preamp has anything short of magnificent bass control & dynamic authority, you can likely blame choice of NiMH batteries.

Guido
it wasn't my intention to recommend Dodd or RWA. We all have our own perception of what functions and qualities are of up most importents for music reproductions.
SS or tube makes no difference as long as the synergy is there and quality is on par with our expectations. Rowland looks very well build and I am sure the performance is high.
If it is worth the admition price.....? I leave it to you, since my budget for single component is not even close to what Rowland is asking. However, I am still interested to hear the initial impressions and comparison to other well regarded preamps out there.

Mariusz

Hi Dgarretson, Criterion can operate both on DC and AC. I'll audition the device several times between Oct 9th and 12th. I will also bring along several of my PCs just in case. I will compare very carefully AC and DC ops and post here my totally unscientific opinions. G.

Looks like Soundings will receive a Criterion demo unit on Thursday, just in time for RMAF's opening. Hopefully the device will already be broken in. . . I'll keep you posted. To me the question is still. . . will its music performance exceed significantly that of the Capri? Guido

Guidocorona,
yes, keep us posted. Looking forward to hearing your impressions of the Criterion pre.

Capuccino, by coincidence the Marriott has assigned me a room just a few doors down from suite 505, where the Criterion is being set up this afternoon by Soundings Hifi. I'll post again as soon as I manage to give an initial listen to the creature. Guido

Guido, is it time for me to run over????

Unfortunately this Criterion will be cold out of the box. Maybe by the end of the weekend it'll be getting close to ready.

BTW, we had a first listen to Marantz's S7 reference CD/SACD player last night. Cold, out of the box, it's a contendah...Very nice indeed.

Looks like a modern revival of the great Consummate set. If so, this will be one hell of a unit!!

AG

Dave and I Heard Criterion yesterday for the first time at RMAF in Marriott suite 505 while the Soundings crew was setting up. Device had been used for 2 weeks by the software developer who is designing the control microcode. I estimate it may have been played for max 50 hours prior to yesterday. Device started cold and during the day played for 6 hrs continuously. Only the AC power supply was used as the firmware to control the battery DC PS is being tested. Rest of system consisted of JRDG 312 amp and the New Vienna Acoustic Die Muzick speakers which were being set up using the Masters process by Sumiko and Rod of Soundings. Source were a Marantz SA7-S1 and the PD MPS-5.

With the premise that in the little standard size hotel suite it is not possible to achieve optimal staging, and that Criterion is neither broken in nor it is using the battery power supply, results were extremely encouraging. We managed to conduct a very quick comparison with an equally new Capri. Using a Diana Krall cut, Dvorak's string sextet, 2nd movement from the New World Symphony, and 1st mov from Sibelius violin Concerto with Ann Sophie Mutter at the fiddle, my Initial impression is that Criterion seems to be yielding a much denser'', larger instrument image with a proportionally larger and more defined stage with finer and more textured overall detail. Before the show is over the Criterion will have racked up at least an additional 72 hrs of plahying time. . . I hope to be able to compare it with a fully broken in Capri. . . I'll post here my observations. Guido

It's always good to hear from the shareholders.

And cheerleaders.

Guido,
thanks for your update. This sounds very promising! And like you are having a good time over there:)

It's really too early to evaluate, other than to say it's very promising.

Dave

I was unimpressed with the 2 JRDG rooms (Soundings, Jeff was not there). This coming from the owner of a Capri which is a preamp I like a lot.

Of course IMO there were a lot of duds this year at RMAF. However, the minority of rooms that did shine (ironically 3 of them using Atma-sphere equipment) more than made up for it.

Ah Clio09, I see you have the Audiokenesis speakers. I thought that Duke had one of the best sounding rooms at the show. Not only that, Duke is a great gentleman here on A'gon and in person.

I DO think that Atmas colored his system every so slightly. Duke volunteered that he thought that the 60s would have been a better match than the 30s that he was using. Still, it was a very musical system, in my top three of the show, bar none.

BTW, here's my personal top three:
Soundings (Vienna Acoustic/Rowland)
Genesis Speakers
Audiokenesis

I wasn't able to visit every room, so there very well could have been other rooms in this league.

Dave

Well.....Did you ever get back for a good listen to the Rowland Criterion? I have one on order and am very interested in anyone's thoughts who have heard it personaly. I don't care to have anyone guess on its sound...I know what his previous pre amps sound like. No need to go there. Just the facts please. Thanks, David.

Kawika, all I can say at this point is that it sounded very quiet and musical in the 312/Dei Musik system. At one point there were about 8 people in the room and Rod switched from the Marantz SA7 to the Playback Designs everyone immediately recognized the improvement in transparency, sound stage and impact. There were a couple "wows" in the room.

When the firmware is finished and the Criterion is operating on battery power, I'll go to Soundings and compare it to the Capri in a more meaningful way. Unfortunately that may be about the time that you take delivery. I think we're talking about a few weeks. The programmer needs Jeff to get back from Asia and push him to finish.

Dave

I didn't get the setup or sound in the JRDG/Vienna/Marantz/PD Soundings room at all. It was like watching a 100" screen three feet away. The soundstage was flat with no dimensionality and the bass was boomy. I sat in the sweet spot on two different days to give it a fair chance. Not good.

How people can attribute good or bad "sound" and isolate it to one component in a system or room they have never heard before is beyond me, unless there are obvious, clearly identifiable mismatches between components. I need to acquire that listening skill. Moving from one seat side to side or front to back, or a door open or closed in the room can have a dramatic effect on what is heard.

Unfortunately there were a number of times I entered the Soundings suite and Rod was not playing "music". Someone brought in the soundtrack to "My Cousin Vinny" which was very impressive with bass dynamics and effects, but not musical at all. When we played real music it was a very musical system. As with most rooms there, the operator needed to avoid overloading the room. I heard Rod overload the room a number of times and the guy next door would often overload his room to the detriment of the Soundings room.

So, it's not ideal. Bring your own CDs that you know and ask for a level adjustment to suit the music. When you do that, it's actually fairly reasonable way to get a quick and relatively accurate take on equipment, IMHO.

Dave

Dave,

Duke's room on Friday was not as impressive (although quite good) as on Saturday. On Friday he had both pairs of his new speaker designs in play and in close proximity to each other (basically side by side) which caused minor imaging issues. On Saturday, he removed the smaller set and the sound was better IMO.

BTW- I'm upgrading my Stormbringers to the Jazz Modules soon.

My favorites, not in any particular order:

Merlin/Joule (Bobby always seems to have a nice set-up)
Galibier/Atma-sphere (vinyl heaven)
Moscode (the new 402 sounded very nice)
VAC/Von Schweikert (both rooms)
Serious Stereo (these guys are for real IMO)

We stopped by Duke's on Sunday. It was ready for prime time by then.

Dave

Sounds like Dcstep, you'd better get down to soundings this week and have a listen in their own store setup. I'm sure they know how to set up a great stereo in a controlled and well designed room ! You say that particular Criterion only has about 70-100 hrs on it? I'll bet it needs 200-400 hrs to fully break in.

That's where I'll listen Kawika, but I'd rather wait for a few a couple of hundred more hours on it and also hear it in battery powered mode. Hopefully the programming will be complete in a few days. Until the firmware is settled, I think we need to hold off saying much more.

Guido will probably add his perspective tonight. He was deep in thought, pulling on his mustache, as he listened yesterday again.

Dave

So what's the deal on the story that it uses Op amps for signal amplification? Is that true? If so have designers come up with a ciruit that competes with Class A bias cicuitry using top shelf parts ? Mt Capri is very good in trasnparency, but my old Gryphon Sonata Allegro was better in areas such as bottom end heft, dynamics and quietness. I get a fair amt of hiss at full volume on the Capri/312 combo (witout source signal of course!) and not a damn thing at 1/2 inch from my tweeters with the Gryphon pair.

Are you using power factor correction with your Capri? My Continuum 500 is very quiet and so is the Criterion, but the Capri isn't quite in the same league, but very good. I don't know what gives there. My Continuum has PFC. The Criterion will have batteries, but it was very, very quiet on an AC diet.

Guido played around a lot with the Capri and PFC, but ultimately preferred the Capri without PFC fromt he PC-1.

I don't know anything about the Criterion's topography. Maybe Guido will chime in tomorrow.

Dave

Dave I'm not using the power correction device, but I have used it for a few days in and out for a trial a few months back. It was very slightly better sound (more musicly refined) than without it, but had nothing to do with the "Hiss." I'm talking full volume without source signal with ear up to tweeter type hiss :)

Remember when you compare hiss, you have to do it at the same gain. Some pre-amps don't have as much gain as others, so when you compare their hiss at full volume it may not be apples to apples.

I didn't know if the PFC's conversion to DC might reduce hiss. Apparently not.

Dave

Here are some more post RMAF notes. . .

Soundings suite top flight system consisted of Vienna Muzick, JRDG 312, JRDG Criterion running on AC (that probably just reached 100 hrs mark by end of show(, brand
spanking new Marantz SA7S1 player with 50 hrs break in by end of show alternated with Dave's well broken in Playback Designs MPS-5.

We tested initially the Marantz SA7S1 in the Soundings store before taking it to the RMAF suite using a well broken in Capri linestage: it was remarkable being still fresh out of the box with
some initial raggedness and congestion that already seemed to abate significantly by end of show on Sunday afternoon. Yet, even on Sunday afternoon I easily preferred MPS-5
for ease, extension, staging, imaging, harmonic content. The entire system in suite 505 on Sat and Sun was simply remarkable when using MPS5.

I expected that initially the JRDG Criterion in 505 would
impart a cold/ragged/congested signature as it was so new and running on AC. . . it definitely did not do that. . . overall there was magnificent extension,
headroom, musicality and clarity which kept increasing throughout the show, particularly when we used my AudioQuest Sky XLR IC between MPS-5 and Criterion.

Spoke to the developer of Criterion control software. . . battery PS control modules should be operational by year end.
Apparently JRDG will not rely on consumer grade NiMH, but may equip Criterion with industrial grade NiMH D cells--probably Saft, which have much greater reliability and durability. He said that he has not yet heard Criterion on batteries but his experience is that electronics on
DC batteries always sounds significantly better than on AC, no matter what line conditioning is being employed on AC.

We did briefly replace Criterion with a brand new Capri out of the box and fresh from the factory. Predictably Criterion was significantly more fleshed out, bolder, grander. . . the comparison however does not mean much as Criterion had perhaps 60 hours on it and Capri had 0 (zero). A meaningful comparison will eventually need to be made with 2 fully broken in units, and with Criterion running on batteries.

Overall, it is difficult to determine where the excellent sound in suite 505 was coming from: Vienna Acoustics Die Muzick, JRDG 312, Criterion, MPS-5, Marantz SA7S1, or the 8 hours that Soundings and Sumiko spent setting up the speakers in the room. . . likely it was a combination of all of them. In the end, while there were several rooms that I found quite enjoyable, Soundings suite 505 was one of my very few most favorite places, together with the Bel Canto / TAD suite in 585, the Synergistic Research in Longs Peak, and to an extent the TEAC Esoteric Room in 445.

Just learned a couple more bits of info about the Criterion at RMAF. . . the device was an engineering model whose internals are still a little away from final production. For one thing it does not have final ceramic multi-layered boards, but it uses downlevel engineering development boards; According to Jeff Rowland, even under AC, the final production version should sound even better than what we heard in Denver.

The display is a prototype as well. . . final production will look somewhat different, should be brighter and should have crisper color. G.

Guido, are we going to see it before year end? I hate to keep asking Jeff every month about it, but we all thought it was just months away from production after seeing it at Jeff's CES exhibit...........Mine's been bought and oapid for from my dealer for 7 months!

Hi Kawika, as far as I know all the hardware is ready and there are a few dozen Criterions almost ready to be shipped. . . control firmware is expected to be completed by year end. . . but, have you ever dealt with software developers? There is always one more module to complete, one more bug to remove, one more test configuration to run. I'll keep you posted. G.

I spoke with the front desk Chickie a few weeks ago about the Criterion. All she knew was that the final production circuit boards had been ordered by Jeff.

That "desk chickie" was probably Jeff's wife, OR one of the production assemblers. No one there just answers the phone, so your report is probably accurate.

Chassis lay in wait for the boards and software. I've seen them myself, months ago. The big unknown is software development. Has anyone here ever depended on a software engineer to finish something on time??? Raise your hands... so my prediction is two to six months. Jeff's not really in control regarding this issue.

Dave

Kawika, I do not recall anyone by the name of Chicke at JRDG. the nice lady who usually answers the phone at JRDG is Kelly, who is an excellent business manager, while Jeff drives engineering and strategy. G.

Did I offend someone? I come from a Pilot background and no offense was inteneded whilst referering to the nice lady answering the phone at JRDG. While comming up the ranks we always referred to the pretty young lady answering phones as the airport receptionist as the "Front Desk Chickie" Just in case you truely had no clue what I was talking about!

Everyone knew what you're talking about and there's no "front desk chickie" at JRDG is our point in response.

no offense taken Kawika, I really shouldn't throw stones myself. I was introduced to the ARC and Rowland Sound many years ago by Angie, the owner of American Sound in Toronto. . . only after mistakingly referring to her as the "sweet thing" telephone receptionist with one of her horrified staffers. . . and amazingly, Angie still talks to me years after my gaffe!

Returning to the main topic, I have secret hope that firmware will be complete before the end of December, but as a former sofware developer myself, I know that programmers think of themselves as artists first and foremost, for whom a 'deadline' is only an obscure entry in the English dictionary to which they simply do not relate.

Recent communications provide that the software issue for the battery power supply control function is finished. Not aware if there are more programming issues, but Jeff says Criterion will be shipping before year end. Dave or Guido, can you tell me a bit more about the quality and performance of these op amps Jeff is using in his pre-amps? Has op amp technology gotten so good that it can compete with a Class "A" circuit using premium parts?

Kawika, my answer is "Yes; no; and definitely. . . may be!" A classic "non answer". . . the operative word is "can" as you say in your own question. The Burr Brown OPA1632 is apparently an extremely low noise, low distortion, and very high bandwidth differentially balanced op amp from TI Burr Brown. JRDG used it for the 1st time in the minimalistic Capri pre, which I do prefer over my own ARC Ref 3. . . as you can read in several threads where I wax poetic about Capri. I hope that eventually I will have the opportunity of comparing a fully broken in production level Criterion with the Capri and with ref 3. . . and derive some personal opinions. What I heard from Criterion was very promising. . . but it had engineering level boards and was running on AC.

Another way to answer, is that the OPA1632 is just a component. . . the sound of a pre depends on much more than the chips used in it.. . . or in other words. . . "it's all in the handle". G.

I was not able to read all posting, so I apologize if this is redundant. One fairly practical design element that is often so annoying in other brands and components and used only by few other manufacturers is the dot matrix display. It is curious to often see equipment addressed to obviously the both financially and age...aged markets with rather invisible data displays from most rational system placement locations. Perhaps acoustically unwarranted, but I will not bring the P05 home to my -4.5 diopters unless they do something with it.....So do I part with my still unpacked silver Capri and go for the Criterion?

Hi Audiofil, I do appreciate your quandry. . . as I am totally blind I can't see even the large display of the Capri. The Criterion display is a pixel map display and the firmware can be updated via a USB port. I will ask JRDG if large characters can be generated. . . or if the firmware can be modified in the future to do that. . . But I have gotten used operating equipment without looking at the display, and it has been only a minor inconvenience this far. Guido

The Capri is easier to read than the prototype Critereon display, by a long shot. The buttons light, so I don't really see much need for a display if you remember which buttons are which inputs. These are both functionally pretty simple devices, so I wouldn't get too hung up about the display, but that's just me.

Dave

Guido, I am sorry to hear, or rather read about your handicap! You are most likely correct about the possibility of modifying via firmware. Dave, that's exactly the other issue of not being able to assign custom names to sources in the Capri situation. In today's world one should also be able to pick a color of choice for all LEDs in a given device. I spent much time discussing this with Larry at Magnum, but the market trend said blue and the nights of music suddenly turned into a fiesta of lights-into your face. In my humble view too much attention is given to radical styling and submission to fashion, and still a lot of work remains in the ergonomics for most brands.

Thank you Audiofil, except for the relative insensitivity to eye-candy, blindness is hardly a disability for an audiophile. . . more of a persistent annoyance, which can be circumvented to a reasonable extent by bits of added shrinkwrap on positive wire leads (thank you Cardas!) and a few written notes about remote control and component layouts.

I agree completely about the rigidity of display ergonomics and related input/output labelling. If I recall correctly -- and I may be wrong -- Criterion lets you assign meaningful text label on the display to connected devices. As for display color, the Criterion at RMAF had only an engineering level display with a temporary color. Criterion uses a series of filter jells to tune display color. Therefore it may be possible -- at least in principle -- to ask Jeff Rowland to install color filter tuned to the requirements of a particular user as a special order.

In some bright and wonderful future, I would like to see all system components able to communicate with and being remotely controlled by an external Mac/Linux/Windows computer via a platform independent web or Web 2.0 interface. . . at which point current international standards can be applied for developing highly usable/accessible control environments compatible with all audiophiles, including those of us with certain sensorial/motor/cognitive inconveniences/disabilities. See the World Web Consortium's Web Accessibility Initiative technical guidelines at:
http://www.w3.org/WAI/guid-tech.html

Those reading Audiofil's post may mistakenly believe that the Jeff Rowland Design Groups are radically designed. In my view their physical appearance is very conservative, giving the feeling of understated quality. The blue lights for the buttons are very small and the display can be muted on devices like the Capri and Continuum. The engineering sample of the Critereon was similarly understated.

Whether the Critereon will ultimately allow users to customize their displays, I have no answer. The USB allowing firmware update would make that a possibility. All I need is Phono, Digital 1 and Digital 2 and maybe Tape in the future, we'll see. Lacking that a simple 1, 2, 3, 4, as on my Continuum 500, will suffice. I really have no trouble remembering what's what and don't let anyone else use my rig without supervision.

BTW, my Playback Designs MPS-5 has a large, red LED display and some complain about that. I mute it when not in use, but there's no satisfying everyone. There'll always be someone bitching about something. I just make sound my first priority and follow that cue.

Dave

I agree that the Rowland product is somewhat tamed and my comment pertaining to fashion was a general one addressed to the marketplace as a whole.

Then again, if you go for the right feel, the switches on the JRDG are in my view too small and oddly shaped for comfortable pressure to be found (here imagine what fun would it be to have them in different colors, just as large like the ones Tandberg once used on the 910!) I think as B&O lost its design factor appeal by having employed an outside of the industry stylist a good number of high end products are still just an engineering vision turned reality without the involvement of the right and talented industrial designer. Please take note that I am not addressing this to any specific brand. To comment Dave's reply, I differ here and I am a strong advocate of sharing the music system as an appliance with all others. Appliances are however best when they are good, robust in performance, reliable, beautiful and intuitive to operate by all.

Audiofil, you have a point about buttons on JRDG. . . they are a little to small for me as well. . . in particular, the on/standby power switch on the 312 amp is a tiny round thing. . . flush with the front plate. . . I always hunt around with my fingers before finding it. On the other hand, I thought buttons and volume knobs on Capri and Criterion to be no problem at all. G.

As for the Capri (I have to ask Jeff again about this) you still cannot display the balance situation. My hands have not touched the Criterion, but it appears that Jeff employed the slightly larger M&Ms. Then there is yet another element rapidly changing in video and not seeing new technologies in audio. Connectivity. Today, the traditional XLR and RCA could just as well be replaced with something smaller in size and also with better performance as well as the ease of use. I hope new standards will be implemented in the near future - a market wide benefit to all. There is an enormous amount of new technology in connectors today... By now we should all be used to illuminated switches, as well as illuminated remotes, but how many can you list? BTW, what is the Criterion remote look like? The Cardas implementation by JRDG is clearly a winner and I hope more brands would use this solution. In any case, the Criterion today looks just lovely.

The Criterion will show a balance reading. The Criterion's remote will be very different from Rowland's prior minimalist remotes. It still won't be a 100-button style, but it'll provide a lot more flexibility. Unfortunately, I don't think it's on any site yet where you can see it. I saw one in his shop a few months back, but that was too long ago for me to provide any detail. (Darn, I should have taken a picture).

I understand your point of view towards controls, but I'm in the other camp. I like simple and minimalist, orieted toward an owner/user.

Dave